Clutch and pressure plate issues

[jeepdabest]

Does your Jeep clutch get hotter than THIS?????

Sponsored

 

[Deleted member 59498]

Too early bro...

 

[mwilk012]

The recall had nothing to do with the pressure plate failures. It was related to air entering the clutch system and making the clutch slip all the time, this caused failure due to heat, the pressure plate was not the problem, so yes that has been completly repaired and newer JL/JT 6MT's have a comletly different hose that was the concern thats no much more robust.

As far as clutch goes, theres nothing inherently wrong with it, it's simply woefully underwhelming and not really bullet proof and built for the platform in my opinion. It's a bit weak. But normal daily driving as long as you aren't super crazy and overly throttle and shift happy it's perfectly fine.

With that being said the trans is honestly good enough, but I will certainly change the cltuch to a more standard single disc clutch with a heavier flywheel in the future and would never replaced a failed OEM with another OEM.

Hydraulic pressure does not engage the clutch. Spring pressure does. The pressure plate is the problem.

 

[mwilk012]

Nothing wrong with the manual. Everything has problems at some point, look at all the 2.0 recalls and even the diesel fuel pumps. When I had the manual it ran just fine never a problem with it.

Since the recall was done on the one that burned was it even proven it was the clutch and not something else?

there have a been a significant number of them exploding.

 

[BuyHold]

I love mine with the 4.88s, it’s a wheeling popping beast. Clutch works perfectly. I have zero problems telling when it engages. I honestly can’t understand everyone complaints. I guess the sports with fuel efficient gears would make it feel extra slow, but it’s still more powerful than it’s predecessors. So I’m still at a loss for all the complaints.

The "criticisms" of the manual transmission in this forum are very varied. Includes things like differential gearing, the transmission, the pedal feel, the way Jeep has handled the "issues" as well as the explosive nature of some owner's Jeeps.

I personally take serious issue with the explosions. That should never happen. From what I surmise, Jeep opted for a weak lightweight clutch flywheel to accommodate Auto SS. Not good in a Jeep where low and slow, IMO is what we want (unless you own an auto, then going fast is apparently of highest importance... why buy a Jeep for that?!). Also the hydraulics in early JL years are said to be poorly installed. Also a legitimate concern.

I think Jeep did an injustice by inserting anything shorter than 4.10s in ANY MT Jeep with the transmission gearing being what it is, it makes no sense. Thank the Lord that Jeep listened and made 4.88s optional, I give them credit but it solves nothing for poor sport owners. I actually think that the transmission itself is quite good. This is also a different issue from "the clutch" issue though related to MTs since they have clutches.

Regarding the pedal feel (including pressure/clutch disk engagement as well as softness/firmness). I find it very good and zero problems at all from my perspective. I have a mid-cycle 2021 JLR built post recall.

 

[IanNubbit]

Not sure how you can say this. The recalls had everything to do with the pressure plate failures. And the air entering the clutch system idea was apparently a bad guess by Stellantis - otherwise they wouldn't have issued a second recall, a software change to lower engine power if the clutch gets too hot.

Several people had both recalls done, and still had the pressure plate fracture. There is a facebook group about it:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/749567486306702/?mibextid=zGKedc

So it doesn't sound like Stellantis has really addressed the problem, let alone admit there is one.

Admit one, hell no they wont. Note theres basically no failures to ones that where built after the recalls, most of the failures of ones that performed the recall was because the damage was already done from the first one. Is the stock set up trash. Absoulutly, is it going to explode randomly without excess cluth slip induced, no. It's just not good at holding power. There was no bad guess. The pedal would get stock to the floor on multiple vehciles, I have seen with my own 2 eyes multiple vehicle that where routed wrong and clutch fluid was leaking due to it.

 

[IanNubbit]

Hydraulic pressure does not engage the clutch. Spring pressure does. The pressure plate is the problem.

If that where the case you would have MY20+ ones having issues, you just don't though. The orginal first recall, for the clutch line issue, not the PCM flash, solved the issue that was at hand, and that was creating the issue. Air in system, clutch does not fully disengage, sit at light, or any time you have you foot on the clutch, the clutch material would not fully separate from the flywheel , again, because air in the system, just like what happens when you have air in a brake line. After so much of that, clutch assembly becomes extremely hot as its just constantly creating friction. Eventually, shit explodes. Metal doesn't just magically light on fire. It requires heat, that heat was created by friction, induced by a hydraulic system failure. The flywheel, has not, will not, and was never the cause of the issue, just the part that failed. Cause and failure are not always the same thing.

 

[zrickety]

If that where the case you would have MY20+ ones having issues, you just don't though. The orginal first recall, for the clutch line issue, not the PCM flash, solved the issue that was at hand, and that was creating the issue. Air in system, clutch does not fully disengage, sit at light, or any time you have you foot on the clutch, the clutch material would not fully separate from the flywheel , again, because air in the system, just like what happens when you have air in a brake line. After so much of that, clutch assembly becomes extremely hot as its just constantly creating friction. Eventually, shit explodes. Metal doesn't just magically light on fire. It requires heat, that heat was created by friction, induced by a hydraulic system failure. The flywheel, has not, will not, and was never the cause of the issue, just the part that failed. Cause and failure are not always the same thing.

Are you saying the failures are because the clutch is not disengaging? I've not really heard anyone complain about that. It seems the ones that fail are working one minute, and catastrophically broken the next.
It's also not as common as some think, I've seen maybe 6 failures posted in 5 years. There are about 1 million JL Wranglers built, not including Gladiators. Even with manuals as the minority, that's a lot of Jeeps running around without issue.
I will say that at the first sign of trouble, I'm getting a Centerforce or whoever makes a reputable replacement.

 

[IanNubbit]

Are you saying the failures are because the clutch is not disengaging? I've not really heard anyone complain about that. It seems the ones that fail are working one minute, and catastrophically broken the next.
It's also not as common as some think, I've seen maybe 6 failures posted in 5 years. There are about 1 million JL Wranglers built, not including Gladiators. Even with manuals as the minority, that's a lot of Jeeps running around without issue.
I will say that at the first sign of trouble, I'm getting a Centerforce or whoever makes a reputable replacement.

The issue WAS they aren't FULLY disengaging, with so few cases, and basically no new ones in many months in so hard/late to track now. No matter what people say Jeep and Stellantis at that is smart, they fixed the issue that was going on, Techs not doing their job right is a whole differnt thing. The first step to the initial recall was if ther is any customer concern, perform the the clutch hold test. Basically this was clutch drop the Jeep at 2K RPMs with the parking brake engaged. If it stalled immediatly, clutch passed and then you continue with just the line repair as needed. If the Jeep stayed running for any time at all, or outright never shut off, replace clutch assembly and related parts. This was also a test to be performed in the second recall as well after the update was performed, again, I'm sure many techs ignored it.

There's still videos online of people having the clutch pedal stuck to the floor, many videos. I also know of one where someone replaced the clutch assembly with a centerforce prior to the first recall as they where also having the clutch pedal issue and where smelling clutch. A couple days later all the same issues arose, they said the Centerforce was terrible and blah blah blah. Then the recall came out, they got that done, said they would update with a new video and another replacment clutch. Both the update video and the orginal video where they showed the pedal issue where deleted. I beleive they made like an update, but no video stating the recall fixed there issue, and stated an apology. Good luck finding that but you get the idea.

 

[J.Ferreira]

Thanks dudes. I think Im leaning for the MT now. My pal has one so Ill have to take it for a spin, lord knows they dont stock them anywhere

Dude it's super annoying. I would have happily bought an MT off the lot but they just don't exist outside of an order.
That said, I'm thrilled to have been able to build the jeep I want through the configurator and get the one I want soon.

 

[mwilk012]

If that where the case you would have MY20+ ones having issues, you just don't though. The orginal first recall, for the clutch line issue, not the PCM flash, solved the issue that was at hand, and that was creating the issue. Air in system, clutch does not fully disengage, sit at light, or any time you have you foot on the clutch, the clutch material would not fully separate from the flywheel , again, because air in the system, just like what happens when you have air in a brake line. After so much of that, clutch assembly becomes extremely hot as its just constantly creating friction. Eventually, shit explodes. Metal doesn't just magically light on fire. It requires heat, that heat was created by friction, induced by a hydraulic system failure. The flywheel, has not, will not, and was never the cause of the issue, just the part that failed. Cause and failure are not always the same thing.

the pressure plate and flywheel are not the same thing. The sleeve was installed because brake fluid is flammable.

 

[IanNubbit]

the pressure plate and flywheel are not the same thing. The sleeve was installed because brake fluid is flammable.

I guess I will just go ahead and turn in my uniform and quit today, obviously I can't read the Recall, or know what I'm Talking about

 

[TroyMclure]

If that where the case you would have MY20+ ones having issues, you just don't though. The orginal first recall, for the clutch line issue, not the PCM flash, solved the issue that was at hand, and that was creating the issue. Air in system, clutch does not fully disengage, sit at light, or any time you have you foot on the clutch, the clutch material would not fully separate from the flywheel , again, because air in the system, just like what happens when you have air in a brake line. After so much of that, clutch assembly becomes extremely hot as its just constantly creating friction. Eventually, shit explodes. Metal doesn't just magically light on fire. It requires heat, that heat was created by friction, induced by a hydraulic system failure. The flywheel, has not, will not, and was never the cause of the issue, just the part that failed. Cause and failure are not always the same thing.

You do see model year 20+ having issues. Check some of the posts on that facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/749567486306702/?mibextid=zGKedc

Or look at Irish Creig's posts here:

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...ll-burns-2018-jlu-to-the-ground.98834/page-23

The first recall apparently did not fix the problem. If the problem was clutch slippage creating too much heat, and they stopped the slipping by removing air in the system, the pressure plate would no longer overheat. And Stellantis wouldn't have issued the second recall. The fact that people still had failures after having both recalls done, shows the problem was not solved.

Saying what the problem is exactly is pure speculation, because Stellantis is not saying anything, and worse, they are denying to reimburse people for the damage from the pressure plate explosions.

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

My ‘18 with original OEM clutch has been phenomenal. Rubicon, so 4.10. If you are thinking Sport/Sahara, I’d plan on budgeting for a regear.

I don’t worry about the handful that grenaded. I have insurance for a reason, and I just find it extremely hard to believe that there wasn’t some kind of indication that the pressure plate was red hot. Maybe I’m wrong. Either way I don’t think about it, just like I don’t think about being t-boned or struck by lightning. If you want MT, get MT.

 

[BuyHold]

The issue WAS they aren't FULLY disengaging...

I have read of several of the failures occurring while driving at stable speeds on the highway. Owners saying that they aren't shifting. It is possible that the clutch assembly simply isn't providing enough clamping force. I am no engineer but I don't see how the hydraulics impact that.

Only thing I can think of regarding hydraulics changes is that poorly bled lines have gas in them, excess gas in line get hot, gases expand when hot, when expanding it effectively puts pressure into the line, pressure effectively translates to partial clutch disengagement (or enough to allow prolonged slipping), flywheel gets hot from slippage (i.e. frictional heat), BOOM, Jeep gone.

I love my manual though.

Sponsored