calemasters

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Cool test. Thats some serious commitment. But I thought the goal of ESS was to reduce idling emissions. I was never under the assumption it was for saving mpg’s.
I tend to agree. With the auxiliary battery, wiring, controller and relays, heavy duty starter motor, etc., ESS adds a lot of complexity, mass and cost. Also, there is more opportunity for failures, as many of you have experienced. I have noticed that on many occasions, my ESS is "not ready", so the system has had many "missed" opportunities to save our planet. I think the benefit towards reduction of emissions (carbon footprint) is minimal. For me, the emission reduction is neglectable because my idle time is nil. I look at my Jeep as a tool to get from A to B. Sitting "idling" does not get the job done. That is why you will never see me at the Starbucks drive through. Besides, I don't drink coffee.





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wolf

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Wonder when they are going to stop all the volcanoes from spewing all that pollution. Maybe a giant stop start plug? 🤣
 

sentience

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Cazadores

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I've found ESS to really just not even engage on the JLR with the standard trans. It's so rare the combination of factors comes to play for it to shut off in my typical driving day.

Wish I didn't have to carry around an extra battery, etc. for the rare occasion it might shut the engine for a second or two. Seems wasteful.
 

sf5211

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I've found ESS to really just not even engage on the JLR with the standard trans. It's so rare the combination of factors comes to play for it to shut off in my typical driving day.

Wish I didn't have to carry around an extra battery, etc. for the rare occasion it might shut the engine for a second or two. Seems wasteful.
You’re probably in the habit of holding your clutch in at red lights which is why you rarely see it work. In neutral with foot off of clutch she unfortunately shuts down every time.
 
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multicam

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Thanks for bringing this all back up and I am sure you are familiar with one of those notebooks, every good NCO has one.
Yes I am absolutely familiar with those notebooks! I have tons of them. Over the years different notebooks have gone in and out of style... from Write-in-the-Rain to Moleskine to small legal pads... but the green notebooks persist forever. Most likely because of that NSN you posted... you can always ask your supply rep for one ;)

The real test here is self control... not modifying your jeep for 2 years! damn bro
That was easy for me! I like stock jeeps. Mine has done everything I needed it to off-road so I have no need to modify it. I did just install a Dynomax muffler delete but I see that more as a deletion than an addition. One of my previous jeeps was a stock 4-cylinder TJ and that thing was able to accomplish so much... this Rubicon is so capable in stock form that I don't need to do much to it.

Scientific evidence that ESS is useless,.02 per gallon?
My JLU hesitates every time I use it, which might cause me to get into an accident!
I'm waiting to win the lottery and get a 392, just because it doesn't have ESS!
Battery Bats will complain about the environment, all the millions of Jeeps adding up, but you need to sell that crap to China and India.
I couldn't believe all the EVO trolls, that complained about building the 392!
I just turned off my lights, so all you Battery Bats can charge your cars, grid will now be able to handle all of you now!
You kinda lost me towards the end of your post there, but yeah, for me I only got 0.2 mpg better with using ESS. Who knows how much "cleaner" my tailpipe emissions were when using it. I'll probably use a Tazer to disable ESS once I'm outside of warranty.

What is your ratio of highway to city driving? If its something like 90% highway then you wouldn't get much benefit out of ESS to start with.

I've noticed I lose about two MPG when my ESS isn't working (my batteries are funky but nothing wrong with them according to the dealer tech 🤷‍♂️) vs when it is working.

2018 JLU Sahara, auto, 32" tires.
Yeah Sean very much highway driving for me, at least back then. I lived in Temple and commuted about 33 miles to Fort Hood. So 70-75 miles daily, 46 of which were pure highway, plus whatever short trips I made around post.

If mpg was enough of a concern for me to put in the time and effort that went in to the OP’s study, I wouldn’t be driving a Jeep. ESS or not, Jeep and fuel economy are like oil and water. That being said, our 2019 jlur on 37’s is our most fuel efficient vehicle, averaging 17mpg. My 2017 rebel averages 14, although I drive it like the gas pedal is an on/off switch since it’s so much more fun than the work van. The 2007 E350 is the worst of the bunch, averaging 12 mpg. Of course with all the tools, ladder rack, and material it’s the heaviest and least aerodynamic. Our vehicles all serve a purpose that is far outside being mpg driven. If I were buying a commuter car to just get me from a to b it’s not hard to find double the efficiency of a wrangler. It would be interesting to see the difference ess makes on our etorque vehicles, but ours has been off for a year since the tazer went on. It certainly didn’t seem to make any difference when we used it, aside from the AC blowing hot air at stop lights.
Not much time and effort went into it; I just wrote a few numbers down after every fill-up then took half an hour to input 50-60 receipts at once, then excel did the rest. I actually have an excel spreadsheet that calculates the average amount of time spent on this experiment, if that would help.

I'm still waiting on Multicam to tell me which of the two types of Texas Driving Conditions he was in...

DownrightDarkCoqui-max-1mb.gif


or

6Ijw8Zr.gif
Definitely the second pic! Although I drive more like the granny in the right lane getting passed by the guy driving fast who got passed by the guy driving at lightspeed ;)

I can't think of a single thing I care about less than mpg on my jeep. If I cared even 1% more than I do about gas usage, I would own a prius as my daily, but that would require transition to... well let's just say you would need to refer to me with one of the new made up words/pronouns.

I'd recommend ending the experiment and find a trail in the woods, bring a tent, sleeping bag, and food. Use all the notes from the experiment as a firestarter and enjoy nature.

Its a jeep, and I have no doubt if it had a soul its crying for adventure.

WaX
Oh don't get me wrong, I don't care either- in the sense that I am not doing anything to get better MPG (my next tires will be bigger than my current), I wouldn't want a Prius or Corolla or other commuter car, I don't hypermile, etc. But I am curious about this new technology called "ESS" and have a personality where if I start doing something, I have to finish it. So once I started writing down mileage I just kept that train rolling.

And don't worry about me, plenty of these miles were off-road, and I spend plenty of time out there enjoying nature. It's part of my job. Did you see the pic of the jeep in my original post? That was just one of many times I took her out to play. There were plenty of tanks that had 14-16 mpg because I had been off-roading, and they balanced out with the 18-19 mpg tanks where I was in commute-to-work-mode.

Some of us just have idiosyncrasies like this, doesn't mean we don't enjoy our jeeps. Like the guy below----

I have been keeping track of every fill up for every car I own using an app called Road Trip. If you are dedicated to tracking your mileage, I strongly recommend it! I’m pretty sure it’s free (can’t remember since I’ve had it for so long) and it lets you export your data to a csv. Also let’s you track maintenance, accessories, whatever you want!

I started the process doing Op’s method and then found this app and haven’t looked back!
Thanks for the recommendation, I'll check it out!

ESS is not a regulatory requirement. If it was, GM wouldn’t be dropping it entirely in their SUVs and trucks due to the current chip shortage.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/06/auto-stop-start-removed-from-full-size-2021-gm-suvs/

Honestly feel like ESS should be an option, similar to engine heaters and floor mats.
Yes, couldn't agree more. People should be able to choose to have the extra Aux battery, the added complexity, etc. But that probably wouldn't be cost effective. Oh well.
 

JeepU4IA

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ESS is not a regulatory requirement.
It kinda is indirectly. The lower the average MPG is for a manufacturer, the higher the fines they have to pay. That's regulation.
 

AnnDee4444

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I once had an electric radiator fan go bad when I was a long way from home, in stop & go traffic in the middle of summer. The radiator still operated fine but wasn't really effective below 30 mph, so I ran the heater which couldn't really keep up with the cooling demands at idle. The only solution was to stop the engine at traffic lights. If that vehicle was equipped with ESS, I might not have even noticed that the electric fan was bad at all.

ESS's benefits aren't just better MPG. Off the top of my head there's less noise, pollution, alternator load (from radiator fans), heat, total lifetime engine rotations, vibration (at least with eTorque)... Obviously this is in contrast to the increased wear on the starter, more complicated wiring/circuitry, potential oiling issues (which I'm not convinced are a problem, since we're talking about idling and not high load/RPM).

It's unfortunate that the JL needs a second battery and that the non eTorque implementation is a little rough, because I suspect that the motor with less runtime will last longer.

Honestly feel like ESS should be an option, similar to engine heaters and floor mats.
Would you be willing to pay more for it? Because automobile manufacturers are using it as an alternative to CAFE penalties.
 

wolfdog

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The ESS on my 2015 Cherokee Trailhawk stopped working over a year ago mileage up since then about 2 MPG, go figure? ;)
 

sentience

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Would you be willing to pay more for it? Because automobile manufacturers are using it as an alternative to CAFE penalties.
Uh, yeah. If my primarily concern was efficiency, the entire Jeep lineup wouldn’t have been anywhere on my shopping list.
 

ZeroOx

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It is strange to me how worked up people get about the ESS. I don't even notice it and took me maybe a day to subconsciously take my foot off the brake for a half second before the light turns green. If I am going to go on a trail or a lot of stop and go maybe I turn it off.

MPG is not the point of it so using MPG to "prove" the worth of it is somewhat pointless.
 

Cazadores

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It is strange to me how worked up people get about the ESS. I don't even notice it and took me maybe a day to subconsciously take my foot off the brake for a half second before the light turns green. If I am going to go on a trail or a lot of stop and go maybe I turn it off.

MPG is not the point of it so using MPG to "prove" the worth of it is somewhat pointless.
It's strange to me how worked up people get about people's opinions of ESS.
 

Sean L

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It's strange to me how worked up people get about people's opinions of ESS.
Yep... Someone likes and uses ESS and then we get told we should have bought a Prius instead of a Jeep.
 

AnnDee4444

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Uh, yeah. If my primarily concern was efficiency, the entire Jeep lineup wouldn’t have been anywhere on my shopping list.
Are you referring to financial efficiency?

Personally I'd rather not spend money on things I don't use or to remove things that don't really bother me, rather than pay more to cover the CAFE fines.
 

Zandcwhite

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Ess is like title 24 lighting requirements in CA. It makes the regulators feel like they are doing something. The added complexity, cost to install, additional components, and increased maintenance/repair items make it a wash at best. Use it if you want, don't use it if you don't. On hot days it is annoying, otherwise it's barely noticeable.
 

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