Sponsored

Changing loose steering box for the new one AE

KnG818

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chris
Joined
Nov 14, 2019
Threads
8
Messages
600
Reaction score
579
Location
Ma
Vehicle(s)
18 Rubicon
This thread is more about BRAWNS than anything else lol
Sponsored

 

roaniecowpony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Threads
144
Messages
7,237
Reaction score
9,280
Location
SoCal
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLUR, 14 GMC 1500 CC All TERRAIN
Occupation
Retired Engineer
You cannot fix design, unless you re-design the entire component.

It is an on-road compliant vehicle. Does it not have blinkers, headlights and brake lights.

If most will never see dirt(I agree with you on that), maybe they should make a "SOCCER DAD" edition for those who want a Jeep to look cool . You know, one that steers like a mini van.
Again, you're making up stuff to suit your fiction.:LOL:
 

Aceman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2019
Threads
3
Messages
181
Reaction score
127
Location
NJ
Vehicle(s)
JLUS
If your steering box was replaced with an AE suffix part number, let's assume it is a "good" box, for discussion purposes. What else could be causing "play"?

For my JLUR, it was mainly the trackbar, and maybe more specifically the bushings. That tells me my original steering box, built in Oct 2018, is pretty tight. So how can a trackbar cause "play"? The answer is that when you turn the wheel, the pitman arm pushes or pulls the draglink, which does the same to the tierod, which acts upon the steering knuckles of the axle assembly. If the trackbar allows any lateral movement of the axle assembly, any steering input must push the axle assembly over until the trackbar reaches the point where it won't allow any further lateral movement. Just to illustrate the forces on these parts, I read one study where the peak numbers in daily use were in the area of 20,000 lbs of force on a tierod. But lets say you're cruising down the highway at 65 mph and turn steeing wheel a bit. The tierod will see forces in the hundreds or thousands of pounds. That force pushes on the axle assembly. If the trackbar has flex or soft bushings, it will move the axle first, then the steering knuckle.

If the trackbar is stiff enough and its bushings rigid enough, you have to consider all the parts between the steering wheel and the steering box. There's a lot of parts, including an assembly of close fitting telescoping tubes (for steering column collapse in an accident) which must not allow rotational slop, and an "intermediate shaft" which looks like a miniature driveshaft, with a U-joint in it.

If all the above is tight, you have to look at tierod and draglink joints. And also any play in the balljoints can result in steering play.

For you guys that have excess play in your steering, do a little test when on a wide smooth road at highway speeds. When going straight, move the wheel slightly and hold it in that position. Does the jeep not react initially, then start to steer in that direction, after a delay? I'm only talking about a very small delay, but just enough to get a person out of sequence with the steering movements. Like a fraction of a second. This is the condition I was getting. It was the trackbar allowing the axle to move laterally until it reached a point where the bushings had crushed enough and/or the trackbar itself had flexed until it required higher forces to flex further than was needed to move the steering knuckles to turn. When I did this test, it felt like the steering wheel was hooked to bungee cords instead of steel rods and gears.
Really appreciate your input on this, thank you. I'll be putting on the SS track bar later today and report back.
 

Aceman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2019
Threads
3
Messages
181
Reaction score
127
Location
NJ
Vehicle(s)
JLUS
This thread is more about BRAWNS than anything else lol
You have nothing better to do than troll this thread? Really? Sorry if you get butt hurt when people criticize their defective jeeps. We're all here trying to rectify problems with ours since FCA is refusing to do so. Either you're an FCA schill or you don't have a life. Go find something meaningful to do with your time.
 

Woodbridge

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2019
Threads
8
Messages
92
Reaction score
89
Location
North Carolina
Vehicle(s)
2020 Rubicon Unlimited
If you are under the jeep and the pitman arm does not move for that much steering wheel input the brace is not going to do squat. There is no load happening yet. You either have play in the column or gearbox. hold the steering column tight with your had right before the gearbox while someone wiggles the wheel. If that spot gets all the movement you have isolated it to the gearbox. It that spot does not get all the movement check the column.
You are precisely right
 

Sponsored

Arrowhead

Well-Known Member
First Name
George
Joined
Aug 2, 2018
Threads
19
Messages
480
Reaction score
643
Location
Stillwater, NY
Vehicle(s)
2018 Wrangler JL Sport
Vehicle Showcase
1
There is not one solution for every vehicle. For some it may the steering box, others it could be the track bar or drag link (all three have had updates by the factory) or maybe something else like the faulty program that affected many vehicles. The best way to tell what's going on is to have someone rock the steering wheel left and right while you get under the jeep and check every joint for slack. It will become quite obvious if something has worn prematurely. If everything is tight, then move on to things like caster, tire pressure, toe in, etc. You can check the steering stabilizer pretty easily by popping the bolt out of one end. You should feel resistance immediately when trying to compress or extend it. If there is any give at all before feeling resistance, it's junk. (yes I know a SS is a band aid blah blah blah.... but one that is working properly will reduce vibrations felt through the wheel).

So many people are searching for an elusive "fix" but the reality is there can be multiple factors that can cause poor steering and we should have an open mind to the possibility it might be something you have missed.
 

word302

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2017
Threads
11
Messages
5,145
Reaction score
5,718
Location
Oregon
Vehicle(s)
JLU
Agree. But some guys are changing draglinks, and the opportunity to check it is at that time.

I myself, have a pile of steering system parts laying around in the garage: SteerSmarts tierod & draglink, Falcon steering damper, Synergy trackbar and sector brace. And realistically, not much need to replace those parts, since my steering is now acceptably tight. I'm seeing about 1/2" play at highway speeds. I don't yet know where this play is coming from, but I'm still slowly working thru the system.
1/2" play is better than normal. It's a SFA, it's not going to get better than that.
 

roaniecowpony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Threads
144
Messages
7,237
Reaction score
9,280
Location
SoCal
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLUR, 14 GMC 1500 CC All TERRAIN
Occupation
Retired Engineer
1/2" play is better than normal. It's a SFA, it's not going to get better than that.
Well, it certainly is now a pleasure to drive. I find I want to drive it everywhere now. Prior to replacing the trackbar with a SteerSmarts Yeti Pro, I didn't enjoy driving it. It was a damn busy job driving it on the highway in LA traffic. I always felt I was rolling the dice on whether I'd get in a situation where I didn't have enough precise control to get into trouble. So, I didn't drive it much. I only put 6000 miles on it in the first 11 months I owned it. Now, that's not an issue. I drive it everywhere.

But, I'm still going to pursue a bit more precision in the steering. There's no reason it can't steer like my brother's small block CJ with a GM powersteering box. It doesn't have any detectable play.
 

word302

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2017
Threads
11
Messages
5,145
Reaction score
5,718
Location
Oregon
Vehicle(s)
JLU
Well, it certainly is now a pleasure to drive. I find I want to drive it everywhere now. Prior to replacing the trackbar with a SteerSmarts Yeti Pro, I didn't enjoy driving it. It was a damn busy job driving it on the highway in LA traffic. I always felt I was rolling the dice on whether I'd get in a situation where I didn't have enough precise control to get into trouble. So, I didn't drive it much. I only put 6000 miles on it in the first 11 months I owned it. Now, that's not an issue. I drive it everywhere.

But, I'm still going to pursue a bit more precision in the steering. There's no reason it can't steer like my brother's small block CJ with a GM powersteering box. It doesn't have any detectable play.
Unfortunately until you get rid of the aluminum steering box I don't think it's going to get any tighter. Also what size tire is your brother running compared to you? I run my 37s at 25psi so the roughly 1" of play that I have is pretty solid in my eyes.
 

roaniecowpony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Threads
144
Messages
7,237
Reaction score
9,280
Location
SoCal
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLUR, 14 GMC 1500 CC All TERRAIN
Occupation
Retired Engineer

Sponsored

roaniecowpony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Threads
144
Messages
7,237
Reaction score
9,280
Location
SoCal
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLUR, 14 GMC 1500 CC All TERRAIN
Occupation
Retired Engineer
Unfortunately until you get rid of the aluminum steering box I don't think it's going to get any tighter. Also what size tire is your brother running compared to you? I run my 37s at 25psi so the roughly 1" of play that I have is pretty solid in my eyes.
I'm still on stock 33 BFGs @ 30 psi. I'm not at the point where I can say the OEM steering box can't be precise. I really haven't done enough to figure out if it's in the box, column, or other components. I'm going to have someone rock the wheel while I check the sector shaft on the box for lateral movement. If there's any there, maybe the Synergy trackbar/sector shaft brace will help. If it's the sector gear backlash, I can adjust that or pursue a AE revision. If 1" works for you, no sense spending more time and money on it.
 

word302

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2017
Threads
11
Messages
5,145
Reaction score
5,718
Location
Oregon
Vehicle(s)
JLU
I'm still on stock 33 BFGs @ 30 psi. I'm not at the point where I can say the OEM steering box can't be precise. I really haven't done enough to figure out if it's in the box, column, or other components. I'm going to have someone rock the wheel while I check the sector shaft on the box for lateral movement. If there's any there, maybe the Synergy trackbar/sector shaft brace will help. If it's the sector gear backlash, I can adjust that or pursue a AE revision. If 1" works for you, no sense spending more time and money on it.
What size are your brother's tires? Sidewall flex can be a major factor too. I have a hard time believing an old CJ has 0 steering wheel play.
 

roaniecowpony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Threads
144
Messages
7,237
Reaction score
9,280
Location
SoCal
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLUR, 14 GMC 1500 CC All TERRAIN
Occupation
Retired Engineer
What size are your brother's tires? Sidewall flex can be a major factor too. I have a hard time believing an old CJ has 0 steering wheel play.
Well, it's not exactly old. The only thing old is the body. Even the frame was new. Every part was either new or rebuilt and again, modified with a custom GM power steering system. He's on 35s I think.
 

KnG818

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chris
Joined
Nov 14, 2019
Threads
8
Messages
600
Reaction score
579
Location
Ma
Vehicle(s)
18 Rubicon
Not even remotely accurate. What do you think ECRs and Revs are?
You knuckle heads keep talking about completely modifying the oem unit.

Which would be considered redesigning an entirely new design/function of the component.

Who cares what ecr/revs are...heck does that have to do with a damn thing
 

GeeBee

Well-Known Member
First Name
Gus
Joined
May 31, 2019
Threads
10
Messages
124
Reaction score
84
Location
Aberdeen, Scotland
Vehicle(s)
JLU Rubicon 2.0 GME
Occupation
Engineering Manager
In theory, the brace could help if the OEM bracket is flexing. For just going straight on the highway, my opinion is it will not help for just that condition. I think the OEM trackbar bracket is stiff enough for the highway and little steering inputs, such that you would not likely perceive any flex translated into additional required steering wheel inputs.
You guys been over to the JT forum lately? There’s a steering thread on there where a guy has videoed the steering box/pitman arm while a friend turns the wheel and you can clearly see the chassis crossmember flexing where it’s bolted to the steering box. I think he may be onto something.
Sponsored

 
 



Top