word302

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Again, there is no engine detune. It has exactly the same power, feel,, and performance as before the flash. It's just a safety feature that only kicks in under extreme conditions.

This has to be the most misunderstood recall I've seen, and I blame Jeep for not properly explaining it. But the engine has full power unless there is an excessive amount of slipping detected. Enough to cause an overheated clutch. Only abuse or a problem would cause it to go into what should have been described as a limp-home mode.

I have not yet seen one person on the forum experience it. Even I didn't experience it when teaching 3 of my kids to drive a stick. The only thing I experienced even then was heartburn.
Exactly this. I unexpectedly got the recall when they replaced my steering box and there is 0 change to the performance of the motor and I regularly take it up to the rev limiter.
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homerun

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1st thing: Chris don’t apologize for reopening this thread as your post is extremely valuable.
I’m still on my original clutch (26k)and have been avoiding the dealership to not get that engine detune.
When my time comes I was all in on a Centerforce clutch but am now getting a little scared. I can tolerate a little noise but not vibration or worse having to jam the trans into gear.
These last posts have me thinking of maybe just going OEM when it’s time.
Oldguynewjeep posted another brand not to far back. (Southbend clutch) Does anyone have reviews for that brand?
This post is exactly where I am at, exactly.
 

homerun

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Again, there is no engine detune. It has exactly the same power, feel,, and performance as before the flash. It's just a safety feature that only kicks in under extreme conditions.

This has to be the most misunderstood recall I've seen, and I blame Jeep for not properly explaining it. But the engine has full power unless there is an excessive amount of slipping detected. Enough to cause an overheated clutch. Only abuse or a problem would cause it to go into what should have been described as a limp-home mode.

I have not yet seen one person on the forum experience it. Even I didn't experience it when teaching 3 of my kids to drive a stick. The only thing I experienced even then was heartburn.

This sounds good but why can’t anyone from Jeep tell this to me. I went pretty high in escalations with @JeepCares and nobody could tell me the parameters or how the ecu detects slippage.
 

Gregj

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This sounds good but why can’t anyone from Jeep tell this to me. I went pretty high in escalations with @JeepCares and nobody could tell me the parameters or how the ecu detects slippage.
I’m sure it’s pretty simple once it knows what gear it’s in. Rpm input vs expected output RPM and clutch pedal position, the rest is simple math for the ECM.
Gregj
 

DanW

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This sounds good but why can’t anyone from Jeep tell this to me. I went pretty high in escalations with @JeepCares and nobody could tell me the parameters or how the ecu detects slippage.
They did in the documentation with NHTSA. They just didn't explain it well, which led NHTSA to make it sound like a permanent de-tune.

The problem is that it is not easy for even Jeep's folks to understand. It was developed by a team of VERY capable powertrain engineers whose job is to solve problems. It's really a brilliant solution when you consider it involves no installation of sensors, but rather use of what they already have and then adding code to interpret the data.

What it does, to my understanding, is program the PCM to detect a difference in the wheel speed (or transmission output shaft) speed and engine speed. That indicates clutch slippage. There is an algorythm that enables it to predict accurately how hot it is by how much slippage it detects. When it gets to a certain threshold (well below the temp where damage to the pressure plate would occur), it then limits power, effectively going into a limp home mode, until slippage is either stopped or limited enough for it to predict a temperature drop. That right there is too much to understand for most people who are not techs or engineers, so that's why they can't explain it.

If your Jeep never sees that much slippage, and it would take a lot, as in an extreme amount, then you'll never see the limp mode. Nobody on the forum has reported seeing it yet, to my knowledge. That's partly because most never had the original problem and most of those that did were fixed. This second recall, or flash, was put in place as an insurance policy or safety net, if you will, for the very few that might have not been properly fixed. But it should also protect from overheating when the clutch gets severely worn and is ready to be replaced. It really is a good idea, IMHO, for any modern manual transmission vehicle.

I'd advise you to get it done and enjoy your Jeep without worry.
 

Toycrusher

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They did in the documentation with NHTSA. They just didn't explain it well, which led NHTSA to make it sound like a permanent de-tune.

The problem is that it is not easy for even Jeep's folks to understand. It was developed by a team of VERY capable powertrain engineers whose job is to solve problems. It's really a brilliant solution when you consider it involves no installation of sensors, but rather use of what they already have and then adding code to interpret the data.

What it does, to my understanding, is program the PCM to detect a difference in the wheel speed (or transmission output shaft) speed and engine speed. That indicates clutch slippage. There is an algorythm that enables it to predict accurately how hot it is by how much slippage it detects. When it gets to a certain threshold (well below the temp where damage to the pressure plate would occur), it then limits power, effectively going into a limp home mode, until slippage is either stopped or limited enough for it to predict a temperature drop. That right there is too much to understand for most people who are not techs or engineers, so that's why they can't explain it.

If your Jeep never sees that much slippage, and it would take a lot, as in an extreme amount, then you'll never see the limp mode. Nobody on the forum has reported seeing it yet, to my knowledge. That's partly because most never had the original problem and most of those that did were fixed. This second recall, or flash, was put in place as an insurance policy or safety net, if you will, for the very few that might have not been properly fixed. But it should also protect from overheating when the clutch gets severely worn and is ready to be replaced. It really is a good idea, IMHO, for any modern manual transmission vehicle.

I'd advise you to get it done and enjoy your Jeep without worry.
It's genius really. The cost to redesign the weak component and recall every manual JL/Gladiator built would have been painful. This software "fix" simply saves the clutch from turning into a gooey mess and/or the pressure plate turning to shrapnel when the clutch assembly fails, which was going to require you to probably get a tow anyway. Limp mode beats trailer in my book.

For those worried about the CF clutch. It transformed my Jeep into a completely different animal. It's nostalgic you might say. It brings back everything you once enjoyed about driving a manual with a large engine. The ability to creep and even climb without having to touch the gas pedal. The linear clutch application meaning you can launch just as hard as you'd like at exactly the instant you want. It got rid of the bucking motion when idling in 1st or 2nd gear.

You just feel more connected to your powertrain, and that, to me, is very very satisfying.
 

Willing&Able

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It's genius really. The cost to redesign the weak component and recall every manual JL/Gladiator built would have been painful. This software "fix" simply saves the clutch from turning into a gooey mess and/or the pressure plate turning to shrapnel when the clutch assembly fails, which was going to require you to probably get a tow anyway. Limp mode beats trailer in my book.

For those worried about the CF clutch. It transformed my Jeep into a completely different animal. It's nostalgic you might say. It brings back everything you once enjoyed about driving a manual with a large engine. The ability to creep and even climb without having to touch the gas pedal. The linear clutch application meaning you can launch just as hard as you'd like at exactly the instant you want. It got rid of the bucking motion when idling in 1st or 2nd gear.

You just feel more connected to your powertrain, and that, to me, is very very satisfying.
Toy - can you confirm the part number of the clutch you installed? It's the latest release correct? I need to confirm what I have vs what you have. Thanks!
 

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Toy - can you confirm the part number of the clutch you installed? It's the latest release correct? I need to confirm what I have vs what you have. Thanks!
I'm running a 3rd generation disc and pressure plate designed to accommodate sloppy transmission/motor alignment from the factory. It did not have a part number as it has not been fully released for sale just yet as I understand.
 

2019JLUR

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1st thing: Chris don’t apologize for reopening this thread as your post is extremely valuable.
I’m still on my original clutch (26k)and have been avoiding the dealership to not get that engine detune.
When my time comes I was all in on a Centerforce clutch but am now getting a little scared. I can tolerate a little noise but not vibration or worse having to jam the trans into gear.
These last posts have me thinking of maybe just going OEM when it’s time.
Oldguynewjeep posted another brand not to far back. (Southbend clutch) Does anyone have reviews for that brand?
I've actually been talking with South Bend in the past few weeks as a backup plan in case my Centerforce Dual Friction chatter and noise make me totally crazy and supply chain issues at CF keep me from getting a new friction disk. In my (too long) post that reopened this can of worms I tried to explain what I learned from SB (really nice company, extremely helpful when talking with them). I ended up sending them my stock clutch / flywheel and they are currently rebuilding it to their "Stage 2 - Daily" specifications. Typically they use a new OEM Mopar clutch/flywheel and rebuild/upgrade it to different specs (see their website), but unfortunately they cant get the OEM parts from Mopar right now, so if I didn't still have the stock clutch, I wouldn't have been able to do it now - the cost was less also since they didn't/coudn't get the OEM parts to start from and were able to use my old one as a core. I asked my mechanic and he had only seen SB clutches in truck/diesel applications, but if you search youtube there are one or two videos of guys with a JL who seem to be happy when them. I think if you like the stock clutch, the SB will be very similar since the main change is the friction material and upgraded billet plate separating the twin disks. I have become very accustomed to the CF heavier flywheel and heavier linear pedal feel so going back to a stock pedal would be unfortunate for me at least, but if it ends up going that way I'm sure the SB upgraded clutch will be great (and quiet... and smooth... :)). Good luck, DJ
 

sf5211

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I've actually been talking with South Bend in the past few weeks as a backup plan in case my Centerforce Dual Friction chatter and noise make me totally crazy and supply chain issues at CF keep me from getting a new friction disk. In my (too long) post that reopened this can of worms I tried to explain what I learned from SB (really nice company, extremely helpful when talking with them). I ended up sending them my stock clutch / flywheel and they are currently rebuilding it to their "Stage 2 - Daily" specifications. Typically they use a new OEM Mopar clutch/flywheel and rebuild/upgrade it to different specs (see their website), but unfortunately they cant get the OEM parts from Mopar right now, so if I didn't still have the stock clutch, I wouldn't have been able to do it now - the cost was less also since they didn't/coudn't get the OEM parts to start from and were able to use my old one as a core. I asked my mechanic and he had only seen SB clutches in truck/diesel applications, but if you search youtube there are one or two videos of guys with a JL who seem to be happy when them. I think if you like the stock clutch, the SB will be very similar since the main change is the friction material and upgraded billet plate separating the twin disks. I have become very accustomed to the CF heavier flywheel and heavier linear pedal feel so going back to a stock pedal would be unfortunate for me at least, but if it ends up going that way I'm sure the SB upgraded clutch will be great (and quiet... and smooth... :)). Good luck, DJ
Thank you so much DJ, I do like the softness of the OEM clutch it's nice to know that it's close to the original. I'm going to just move on and when it's time I'm probably going to speak to Centerforce and Southbend. Hopefully by then they'll be restocked.
 

DanW

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