Jeff2018
Well-Known Member
- First Name
- Jeff
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2018
- Threads
- 30
- Messages
- 161
- Reaction score
- 75
- Location
- Indianapolis
- Vehicle(s)
- 2021 JL Rubicon Unlimited EcoDiesel
- Thread starter
- #1
Hey Everyone,
I'm hoping to find another JLUR with a Metal Cloak Game Changer 3-1/2" lift who may have found it necessary to change caster to eliminate death wobble.
The details of our JLUR. It's a diesel. 3-1/2" lift, 37"MTRs.
1,500 miles, so I'm pretty sure we haven't worn out the ball joints.
The wobble occurs between about 35 mph and 45 mph. Sometimes I can drive out of it, other times it gets violent and I need to stop. It's happened 12 to 14 different times.
Toe changed from about 3/16" in, to 1/8" out. This helped some. I've experienced it a couple of times since changing the toe. No violent cases; but, still not something that's comfortable.
I had a shop in Wichita install the lift. They didn't have any problem when it was test driven. I'm in Indy, so as much as they want to help, the 700 mile trip to Wichita each way is something that I would prefer not to do.
The alignment readout after the install of the lift showed 5.1 degree of caster on both sides.
Metal Cloak's instructions are pretty clear. There is a distance specified for the length of each control arm. A caster angle of 6 degrees is shown in a table in the installation instructions along with the dimensions for the upper and lower control arms.
I also spoke with MC and was told that the caster should be between 6 and 6-1/2 degrees. (A friend in Moab runs his JL/MC lift Jeeps at 7 degrees.)
The alignment printout after the lift at 5.1 degrees is quite a bit less than the 6 degrees shown in the MC table. There is also a note in the MC document that these specs are just a starting point and that a "Suspension Specialist" should be seen.
I have checked the lengths as best I can from under the Jeep. They look to be correct.
I contacted a MC dealer here in Indy who installed a friends MC lift. The friend has quite a few miles on his JL with the MC lift, and so I thought it would be a good place to start.
My thought was that I would have them adjust the caster to a little over 6 degrees. From the conversations I had with MC, for every 1/4" shorter there is about 1/2 degree increase in caster. So, I should go from 5.1 to about 6.1 with 1/2" decrease in length on each side.
When I contacted the shop, though, they are a little reluctant to do this. When they install a MC lift, they measure the length and don't check the alignment. I can tell they are reluctant to change it. Evidently in the past they have set up a suspension, taken it to an alignment shop to be checked and then end up going back and forth. One of their main concerns with the increased caster angle is drive line vibration. Although it won't guarantee that vibration won't happen, I did replace both drivelines with upgraded Tom Woods type for the lift.
So, best case, I have them double-check measurements and recheck all the fasteners/torque settings. If everything looks good, then I would like them to shorten the upper control arms. (I'm not sure that they will agree to do it, though.) I'll get the Jeep checked for alignment after that.
Sorry for the long-winded message. Mainly wondering if anyone else has gotten rid of death wobble on a similar setup by changing the caster angle. I'd also appreciate any thoughts about things to avoid.
Take Care,
Jeff
I'm hoping to find another JLUR with a Metal Cloak Game Changer 3-1/2" lift who may have found it necessary to change caster to eliminate death wobble.
The details of our JLUR. It's a diesel. 3-1/2" lift, 37"MTRs.
1,500 miles, so I'm pretty sure we haven't worn out the ball joints.
The wobble occurs between about 35 mph and 45 mph. Sometimes I can drive out of it, other times it gets violent and I need to stop. It's happened 12 to 14 different times.
Toe changed from about 3/16" in, to 1/8" out. This helped some. I've experienced it a couple of times since changing the toe. No violent cases; but, still not something that's comfortable.
I had a shop in Wichita install the lift. They didn't have any problem when it was test driven. I'm in Indy, so as much as they want to help, the 700 mile trip to Wichita each way is something that I would prefer not to do.
The alignment readout after the install of the lift showed 5.1 degree of caster on both sides.
Metal Cloak's instructions are pretty clear. There is a distance specified for the length of each control arm. A caster angle of 6 degrees is shown in a table in the installation instructions along with the dimensions for the upper and lower control arms.
I also spoke with MC and was told that the caster should be between 6 and 6-1/2 degrees. (A friend in Moab runs his JL/MC lift Jeeps at 7 degrees.)
The alignment printout after the lift at 5.1 degrees is quite a bit less than the 6 degrees shown in the MC table. There is also a note in the MC document that these specs are just a starting point and that a "Suspension Specialist" should be seen.
I have checked the lengths as best I can from under the Jeep. They look to be correct.
I contacted a MC dealer here in Indy who installed a friends MC lift. The friend has quite a few miles on his JL with the MC lift, and so I thought it would be a good place to start.
My thought was that I would have them adjust the caster to a little over 6 degrees. From the conversations I had with MC, for every 1/4" shorter there is about 1/2 degree increase in caster. So, I should go from 5.1 to about 6.1 with 1/2" decrease in length on each side.
When I contacted the shop, though, they are a little reluctant to do this. When they install a MC lift, they measure the length and don't check the alignment. I can tell they are reluctant to change it. Evidently in the past they have set up a suspension, taken it to an alignment shop to be checked and then end up going back and forth. One of their main concerns with the increased caster angle is drive line vibration. Although it won't guarantee that vibration won't happen, I did replace both drivelines with upgraded Tom Woods type for the lift.
So, best case, I have them double-check measurements and recheck all the fasteners/torque settings. If everything looks good, then I would like them to shorten the upper control arms. (I'm not sure that they will agree to do it, though.) I'll get the Jeep checked for alignment after that.
Sorry for the long-winded message. Mainly wondering if anyone else has gotten rid of death wobble on a similar setup by changing the caster angle. I'd also appreciate any thoughts about things to avoid.
Take Care,
Jeff
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