MonLee

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My contention is that your second paragraph claims are not all entirely fact based. Less pollution simply isn't true currently. Less noise simply doesn't appeal to everyone, certainly not me, I love noisemakers! The "finite resource" argument doesn't really hold any water either. The truth is oil is constantly being replenished within the earth, the idea that there is only so much is a political contention, not fact based. Generating electricity is still reliant in large part on the same claimed finite resources. There is no "free lunch" as so may like to suggest. Thankfully it isn't likely to happen during my lifespan or maybe just at the very tail end of it. Still I think there are better choices, hydrogen being one. Batteries are a horrible toxic option we should be shying away from rather than embracing if the environment is truly the concern.
Even if you argue pollution stays the same, or even gets worse, at least its moved out of cities where people live and away from our lungs.

Oil is constantly being made but i think its safe to say we are using it pretty quickly... even if we wont run out for a long time, its going to get harder and harder to get to it efficiently. Electricity can be gotten in many more ways, including from oil and that oil is used a lot more efficiently by a power plant than your cars engine, its basic economy of scale. Also getting away from oil means greater distance from the middle east... I don't personally like the idea of supporting ancient kingdoms where people have very little freedom like Saudi Arabia. Id like it very much if we could stop being involved with that. EV's will help a lot with that.

I agree that current battery chemistry is not the solution, better solutions will come and until then this will stay relatively small scale.

Edit: I like loud good sounding engines too, but i certainly wouldn't mind cars being quieter overall. As long as we preserve history while we transition im fine with the roads being more tranquil. Not everyone lives in an area where you can afford a multi acre ranch far from highways. Most of us live near highways and cities and i think most people would prefer their cars, at least their daily drivers, to be quieter.
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Ridgway Jeeper

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Car & Driver has been a worthless rag for a while now.
I had maintained a collection of Car and Driver magazines since high school. I had all of the issues going back over 30 years. I no longer subscribe and since the collection was taking up lots of space, it ended up in the dump... I used to love C&D, it was the best car mag out there.
 

Ridgway Jeeper

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Even if you argue pollution stays the same, or even gets worse, at least its moved out of cities where people live and away from our lungs.

Oil is constantly being made but i think its safe to say we are using it pretty quickly... even if we wont run out for a long time, its going to get harder and harder to get to it efficiently. Electricity can be gotten in many more ways, including from oil and that oil is used a lot more efficiently by a power plant than your cars engine, its basic economy of scale. Also getting away from oil means greater distance from the middle east... I don't personally like the idea of supporting ancient kingdoms where people have very little freedom like Saudi Arabia. Id like it very much if we could stop being involved with that. EV's will help a lot with that.

I agree that current battery chemistry is not the solution, better solutions will come and until then this will stay relatively small scale.
I don't live in the city. I haven't lived in a city for the last 30+ years because yes, you city folk have made quite a mess of such places :)

You are 100% guessing/assuming on the amount of oil available. Just 12 months ago we were 100% self sufficient on oil and had become a net exporter. There is that pesky politics thing working it's way in...

Nice to see the honest admission that we really are nowhere near changing over, especially given current technology. Like I mentioned originally, most consumers are not in favor, as it is today, the infrastructure is decades away and politics is having more impact than anything else on the direction towards EV's. I do not see them as a "solution" to anything but more a profit driven agenda for a few with an empty feel good twist to try and sell it.
 

Killed by Death

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I had maintained a collection of Car and Driver magazines since high school. I had all of thenissues going back over 30 years. I no longer subscribe and since the collection was taking up lots of space, it ended up in the dump... I used to love C&D, it was the best car mag out there.
I was always a Road & Track guy.
 

MonLee

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I don't live in the city. I haven't lived in a city for the last 30+ years because yes, you city folk have made quite a mess of such places :)

You are 100% guessing/assuming on the amount of oil available. Just 12 months ago we were 100% self sufficient on oil and had become a net exporter. There is that pesky politics thing working it's way in...

Nice to see the honest admission that we really are nowhere near changing over, especially given current technology. Like I mentioned originally, most consumers are not in favor, as it is today, the infrastructure is decades away and politics is having more impact than anything else on the direction towards EV's. I do not see them as a "solution" to anything but more a profit driven agenda for a few with an empty feel good twist to try and sell it.
There is so much fake news on both sides of the fence that literally anything said by anyone must be taken with a grain of salt. I sure hope your right about being self sufficient on oil, that would be incredibly cool if true.

We have a very long way to go, i see cars like the Model 3 as the Ev equivalent of a Model T, its a cool new thing but we have to improve upon it and build in its infrastructure for it to be truly viable for the majority of people. It will get there in time and our patience will be rewarded.

Before emissions standards there were days you couldn't even leave your house air quality was so bad in cities. You could taste the air and your eyes watered constantly. ICE has gotten a lot better but EV's will make air quality and noise pollution even better, they are simply the next step. As far as outside of cities are concerned, there will be little to no difference for a very long time i think.

Cities are a necessary evil... ill leave that at that lol.
 

Ridgway Jeeper

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There is so much fake news on both sides of the fence that literally anything said by anyone must be taken with a grain of salt. I sure hope your right about being self sufficient on oil, that would be incredibly cool if true.

We have a very long way to go, i see cars like the Model 3 as the Ev equivalent of a Model T, its a cool new thing but we have to improve upon it and build in its infrastructure for it to be truly viable for the majority of people. It will get there in time and our patience will be rewarded.

Before emissions standards there were days you couldn't even leave your house air quality was so bad in cities. You could taste the air and your eyes watered constantly. ICE has gotten a lot better but EV's will make air quality and noise pollution even better, they are simply the next step. As far as outside of cities are concerned, there will be little to no difference for a very long time i think.

Cities are a necessary evil... ill leave that at that lol.
We are not currently self sufficient on oil. Major reductions in production have taken place recently. We were, we could be and you are witness to the difference as prices have doubled for gas in 18 months time.

I agree, we are a long way off. My point is, the tech in the current EV's is likely to be replaced with something much different before there is a true move away from ICE as we know it. Battery electrics are a poor solution, they do not deliver on the hype surrounding them minus the odd burst of impressive acceleration.

Yes, cities seem necessary and I am thrilled so many choose that life. It makes my choice that much more peaceful except during the summer when you all come to visit at once :)
 

MonLee

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We are not currently self sufficient on oil. Major reductions in production have taken place recently. We were, we could be and you are witness to the difference as prices have doubled for gas in 18 months time.

I agree, we are a long way off. My point is, the tech in the current EV's is likely to be replaced with something much different before there is a true move away from ICE as we know it. Battery electrics are a poor solution, they do not deliver on the hype surrounding them minus the odd burst of impressive acceleration.

Yes, cities seem necessary and I am thrilled so many choose that life. It makes my choice that much more peaceful except during the summer when you all come to visit at once :)
Let me be clear i do not live in the city, i live an hour drive away in the suburbs near the beach. The real city folk come and invade me in the summer as well.
 

gato

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Sahara’s are usually quicker as well with lighter tires that have better roadway tread.
I'm not so sure about that. The Rubicon's 4.10 gears are much better for acceleration than 3.45.

Also the presence or absence of eTorque will not affect acceleration much. eTorque is out of the equation after the first 1/2 turn of the wheel.
 

TravisRogers

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I’m just amazed that there was someone at Car & Driver who said, “We just got some new Broncos and Wranglers and we should drag race them.” Then an editor said, “Great idea.” Then they had a graphic designer design time graphs and they published it like it’s groundbreaking news.

“Next week, for our most helpful and relevant test yet, our brilliant journalists will pit a Miata against a Boxter on a construction site to see which can haul the most bags of Quikrete — deciding once and for all which two seater convertible is best.”
 

Micky

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Here is a question. if you want to go over 100mph, why would you get a Wrangler or Bronco? There are better cars for that. My thought is that the Wrangler is a slow speed specialist for nasty terrain.
 

Twojayhawks

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I spent more time laboring over my JL purchase than I have with most other vehicles. It came down to a darn near tie with the JL and Ford Ranger quad cab 4x4. My criteria was an easy tow behind my motorhome. In the end the JL unlimited was my choice. However, I thought the Ranger was better built, better quality, and I loooved the 2.3L. My thoughts are Jeep had to use the 2.0L as it was already in their parts bin but the JL would have been much more fun to drive with a 2.3L. And frankly if they would have had a (approx 2.3L) they would have had less people choosing the 3.6L. Aren't they wanting to ditch the 3.6L anyway? My take is Jeep has a long history of giving slightly less than what their customers want but the cult following laps it up anyway. Ford will push them for a change and we'll all benefit from that.
 

ThirtyOne

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I spent more time laboring over my JL purchase than I have with most other vehicles. It came down to a darn near tie with the JL and Ford Ranger quad cab 4x4. My criteria was an easy tow behind my motorhome. In the end the JL unlimited was my choice. However, I thought the Ranger was better built, better quality, and I loooved the 2.3L. My thoughts are Jeep had to use the 2.0L as it was already in their parts bin but the JL would have been much more fun to drive with a 2.3L. And frankly if they would have had a (approx 2.3L) they would have had less people choosing the 3.6L. Aren't they wanting to ditch the 3.6L anyway? My take is Jeep has a long history of giving slightly less than what their customers want but the cult following laps it up anyway. Ford will push them for a change and we'll all benefit from that.
I don't understand how you can still say this when Jeep has given us a v6, turbo, diesel, hybrid, and v8. What else do people want?
 

Wbino

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People that expect speed from ANY Jeep or truck should be made to use a fork with soup.
The 392 makes me scratch my head.....
 
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