Car and Driver trashes the 4xe

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S2k Chris

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I didn’t feel that the 4xe was underpowered compared to my 3.6L in normal driving (but then I don’t think the 3.6L feels underpowered either). I only drove it up to about 35mph on city streets. Let’s face it, if you’re on the highway you’re probably going to want hybrid mode anyways.

 

Echo4papa

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Here's another, more recent take on the 4xe by Car & Driver by someone who seems to have a better appreciation for Wranglers and evs in general.

Link
 

aldo98229

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Right... based on your one short attempt, not the feedback from multiple owners who actually drive the 4xe daily. Seems like you have some personal vendetta! I will give you credit though, at least you admit it was a single, short test drive that you base your very vocal opinion off of.
Sure, attack the member.

My point is: there are 10 different ways a 4Xe driving experience can go. Some people might even like having so many choices! But my guess is the majority still prefer more familiar, more predictable driving manners.

In any event, I am not on the market for a 392. I owned my share of 392 HEMIs in the past: it is an amazingly sweet engine. But it is not what I’m looking for in my Wrangler, on the trail, or in my daily life at this point.
 

RamMan

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Yea, I edited my post. I imagine there's too much torque for a factory axle, so they have to de-rate it in 2wd mode.
Read somewhere that FCA cut the torque back on the Jeep EcoDiesel to 442 lb. ft. because those Dana 44s could not handle the Ram EcoDiesel's 495 lb. ft. I love my EcoDiesel Sport, crank windows. That's Open Defiance of the Electronic Age.
 

Echo4papa

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Sure, attack the member.

My point is: there are 10 different ways a 4Xe driving experience can go. Some people might even like having so many choices! But my guess is the majority still prefer more predictable, more familiar driving manners.

In any event, I am not on the market for a 392. I owned my share of 392 HEMIs in the past: it is an amazingly sweet engine. But it is not what I’m looking for in my Wrangler, on the trail, or in my daily life at this point.
Not meant as an attack, but to point out, specifically because you are very vocal in your dislike for the 4xe, that your opinion is based off limited experience in what I would say was a poor situation at best. In circumstances that put you in a position where you test drove a vehicle that neither you nor the salesperson really knew much about the 4xe specifics. That lack of knowledge colored your experience in a negative manner.

The real shame is that because you are so vocal about it, your thoughts from a single limited experience are posted around as much as the experiences from people who drive the 4xe daily and have a deeper level of experience and first hand knowledge of the vehicle.

I think that is an important aspect to point out so that people who might be considering a new 4xe can weigh comments like yours appropriately.

Edit:as an aside... I didnt attack you, in fact, I gave you credit for being up front in mentioning that your opinion was formed from a single, short test drive.
 


aldo98229

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Not meant as an attack, but to point out, specifically because you are very vocal in your dislike for the 4xe, that your opinion is based off limited experience in what I would say was a poor situation at best. In circumstances that put you in a position where you test drove a vehicle that neither you nor the salesperson really knew much about the 4xe specifics. That lack of knowledge colored your experience in a negative manner.

The real shame is that because you are so vocal about it, your thoughts from a single limited experience are posted around as much as the experiences from people who drive the 4xe daily and have a deeper level of experience and first hand knowledge of the vehicle.

I think that is an important aspect to point out so that people who might be considering a new 4xe can weigh comments like yours appropriately.
I got into a 2019 Toyota Tacoma that I dreaded driving precisely because I ignored the signs that were there during the test drive. I am not going to do that again.

I get it. You love 4Xe. But it is not for everyone. Yes, 4Xe looks great on paper. The actual execution, though, has its shortcomings.

I agree with you about weighing comments. It is difficult for most shoppers out there to actually test drive a 4Xe because they are hard to come by. So I am sharing my experience as a reality check in a sea of flattering posts by 4Xe owners who gloss over, or won’t even admit, the vehicle’s compromises.

If that offends you, my apologies. That is not my intention.
 
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Echo4papa

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I got into a 2019 Toyota Tacoma that I dreaded driving precisely because I ignored the signs that were there during the test drive. I am not going to that again.

I get it. You love 4Xe. Admittedly, it looks great on paper. But it is not for everyone. The execution has real shortcomings.

It is difficult for most shoppers out there to actually test drive a 4Xe because they are hard to come by. So I am sharing my experience to provide a reality check in a sea of flattering posts by 4Xe owners who gloss over, or won’t even admit the vehicle’s drawbacks.

If that offends you, my apologies.
The shortcomings you mention are largely blown out of proportion or in some cases outright misinformation being pushed by people who haven't experienced the vehicle or have limited experience with the vehicle.

For example...

You complain that you have to be "in the right mode" to experience the maximum launch/acceleration from a standstill while minimizing any lag from the ICE coming on or the turbo spooling up. In most modern cars today you have to be in the right mode to experience the maximum launch/acceleration. This was true in my 2019 Mustang GT which was neither a hybrid nor a turbo. If you didnt have it in the right mode, set up correctly, it was noticeably slower off the line. So, its no different from other vehicles. If you want to jump off the line as fast as possible from light to light, you need to make sure have it set up to do so. In normal driving situations, there can be a slight delay between the demand for power and the ICE coming on to deliver but I've found those delays to be short (similar to an auto down shifting multiple gears) and not something that happens constantly. It seems to happen more when I have been driving days at a time without the ICE coming on and then demand it wake up that first time.

Another bit of misinformation that gets propagated often is that "once the battery is drained, you're running on gas only and there goes that 375hp". This is simply not true and born of a misunderstanding of how the hybrid system works. In almost 2000 miles of driving in one road trip without recharging the battery, I was never without the assistance of the electric motors.

You also complain about the sound. That's subjective and I've never addressed it because it's silly, particularly since anyone can listen to the 4xe and judge for themselves. Personally, coming from a loud V8 with no resonator, an h-pipe and active exhaust in my Mustang (which had a great sound), plus living with tinnitus (which sucks ass), I appreciate the quiet.

The extra 800 pounds helps give the 4xe a better highway ride and the extra power from the hybrid system is more than capable of making the extra weight a non-issue.

The limited range (a constant complaint from people who havent purchased) seems to be an issue for a particular mindset. If your goal is mpg and nothing more, and you commute more than 30 miles per day, maybe stay away. In fact, you might stay away from Jeeps in general as they dont get great gas mileage. If you dont commute, have a short commute, or better yet, if you understand that the real beauty of the 4xe is the additional power of the hybrid system when needed and/or being able to hit the trails in electric mode quietly, then the 4xe is a great choice and you should give it a serious test drive.

To that end, as I've offered multiple times here, if anyone is in Central Florida and wants to check out the 4xe, let me know. I'm more than happy to meet up and spend some time going for a drive etc. so you get a better feel for it vs a short test drive with a dealer who doesn't know the 4xe specifics.

So, what drawbacks am I glossing over or not admitting?
 

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The shortcomings you mention are largely blown out of proportion or in some cases outright misinformation being pushed by people who haven't experienced the vehicle or have limited experience with the vehicle.

For example...

You complain that you have to be "in the right mode" to experience the maximum launch/acceleration from a standstill while minimizing any lag from the ICE coming on or the turbo spooling up. In most modern cars today you have to be in the right mode to experience the maximum launch/acceleration. This was true in my 2019 Mustang GT which was neither a hybrid nor a turbo. If you didnt have it in the right mode, set up correctly, it was noticeably slower off the line. So, its no different from other vehicles. If you want to jump off the line as fast as possible from light to light, you need to make sure have it set up to do so. In normal driving situations, there can be a slight delay between the demand for power and the ICE coming on to deliver but I've found those delays to be short (similar to an auto down shifting multiple gears) and not something that happens constantly. It seems to happen more when I have been driving days at a time without the ICE coming on and then demand it wake up that first time.

Another bit of misinformation that gets propagated often is that "once the battery is drained, you're running on gas only and there goes that 375hp". This is simply not true and born of a misunderstanding of how the hybrid system works. In almost 2000 miles of driving in one road trip without recharging the battery, I was never without the assistance of the electric motors.

You also complain about the sound. That's subjective and I've never addressed it because it's silly, particularly since anyone can listen to the 4xe and judge for themselves. Personally, coming from a loud V8 with no resonator, an h-pipe and active exhaust in my Mustang (which had a great sound), plus living with tinnitus (which sucks ass), I appreciate the quiet.

The extra 800 pounds helps give the 4xe a better highway ride and the extra power from the hybrid system is more than capable of making the extra weight a non-issue.

The limited range (a constant complaint from people who havent purchased) seems to be an issue for a particular mindset. If your goal is mpg and nothing more, and you commute more than 30 miles per day, maybe stay away. In fact, you might stay away from Jeeps in general as they dont get great gas mileage. If you dont commute, have a short commute, or better yet, if you understand that the real beauty of the 4xe is the additional power of the hybrid system when needed and/or being able to hit the trails in electric mode quietly, then the 4xe is a great choice and you should give it a serious test drive.

To that end, as I've offered multiple times here, if anyone is in Central Florida and wants to check out the 4xe, let me know. I'm more than happy to meet up and spend some time going for a drive etc. so you get a better feel for it vs a short test drive with a dealer who doesn't know the 4xe specifics.

So, what drawbacks am I glossing over or not admitting?
Oh gawd, please spare me. Do you get a dollar every time you type the word “misinformation”?

BTW, the only reason I brought up the engine sound is because another member was arguing that since 4Xe torque numbers are up there with 392, and gets better MPG to boot, 4Xe is therefore better. Comments like that are so devoid of context one can only take them with a smile.

I started this journey being intrigued by 4Xe, to ambivalent after my test drive. But I admit that after sharing my impressions, the 4Xe zealots are pushing me firmly to the “against” camp.
 
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LongTimeListener

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Otherwise, I agree with your other two points. Only if your driving is weighted heavily toward city driving will you come out ahead choosing an HEV/PHEV. That's still a lot of people (though maybe not as many of the people who would choose a Wrangler).
Fair enough. And to be clear: I actually think the 4xe is a cool vehicle that will make sense for a lot of people. But I also think people need to carefully evaluate their individual use case to see if it makes sense for them. It's not all upside.
 

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Fair enough. And to be clear: I actually think the 4xe is a cool vehicle that will make sense for a lot of people. But I also think people need to carefully evaluate their individual use case to see if it makes sense for them. It's not all upside.
Oh, for sure. That's true of any HEV/PHEV, though, not just the 4xe. It's just more pronounced in the 4xe.
 


ButWhatDoIKnow

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"... Once the battery has been depleted, the 4xe actually gets worse fuel economy than a Wrangler powered by the turbo four with none of the plug-in-hybrid hardware (20 versus 22 mpg combined). Blame the extra 800 pounds that the 4xe carries wherever it goes. "
DUH!
 

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Oh gawd, please spare me. Do you get a dollar every time you type the word “misinformation”?

BTW, the only reason I brought up the engine sound is because another member was arguing that since 4Xe torque numbers are up there with 392, and gets better MPG to boot, 4Xe is therefore better. Comments like that are so devoid of context one can only take them with a smile.

I started this journey being intrigued by 4Xe, to ambivalent after my test drive. But I admit that after sharing my impressions, the 4Xe zealots are pushing me firmly to the “against” camp.
I suspect that I am the other member to whom you refer in the post. I did not argue that the 4XE was "better" than the 392. There are clearly pros and cons to each. I was merely pointing out the inconsistency of arguing that the 4XE is"penalized" by added weight in comparison to the 2.0 while no one says the same about the 392 which weighs the same. I did note that the 4XE has better weight distribution than the 392, identical torque, and better gas mileage even at 0% charge all of which are objectively correct. Obviously, the 392 is faster 0-60, has a much better engine growl if you like that sort of thing, has slightly more cargo room due to rear seats folding flat, and is arguably more reliable given it is a proven engine design. It is also, however, significantly more expensive. They (the 392 and 4XE) are different creatures and will appeal to different buyers.
 

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Oh gawd, please spare me. Do you get a dollar every time you type the word “misinformation”?

BTW, the only reason I brought up the engine sound is because another member was arguing that since 4Xe torque numbers are up there with 392, and gets better MPG to boot, 4Xe is therefore better. Comments like that are so devoid of context one can only take them with a smile.

I started this journey being intrigued by 4Xe, to ambivalent after my test drive. But I admit that after sharing my impressions, the 4Xe zealots are pushing me firmly to the “against” camp.
Here's the thing, though. You clearly think your opinions/impressions -- regardless of how well- or ill-informed they are, and how tailored to your specific needs they are -- are incredibly valuable and everyone should hear them, so you've been spreading them liberally throughout the forum, often using copy and paste.

But you know what they say opinions are like... and no one wants to see that from you on every 4xe thread either.

As an aside -- you get pushback from "zealots" because NO ONE EVER WANTS TO HEAR HOW MUCH YOU HATE WHAT THEY LOVE. For example, I don't go into the 392 forum or on 392 threads and post about how ridiculous and annoying I think the 392 engine sounds (and I really do, but I have a whole host of opinions about the hilarious male obsession with loud aggressive engine noises). No one cares. It doesn't add to the discussion, so I keep my opinions to myself. Maybe try that, since your other approach isn't working?
 

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But I admit that after sharing my impressions, the 4Xe zealots are pushing me firmly to the “against” camp.
No one said you had to be in any camp. Your impressions are your own, as are your perspectives, and your opinions. But let's be real, if a couple of 'zealots' on an online forum are going to be the breaking point for you, you were never seriously considering it and for transparency your opinions should be labeled as such.
 

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I suspect that I am the other member to whom you refer in the post. I did not argue that the 4XE was "better" than the 392. There are clearly pros and cons to each. I was merely pointing out the inconsistency of arguing that the 4XE is"penalized" by added weight in comparison to the 2.0 while no one says the same about the 392 which weighs the same. I did note that the 4XE has better weight distribution than the 392, identical torque, and better gas mileage even at 0% charge all of which are objectively correct. Obviously, the 392 is faster 0-60, has a much better engine growl if you like that sort of thing, has slightly more cargo room due to rear seats folding flat, and is arguably more reliable given it is a proven engine design. It is also, however, significantly more expensive. They (the 392 and 4XE) are different creatures and will appeal to different buyers.
That is fair. Thank you for adding all that context.

If I were to not own a well-equipped Sahara already, and were coming to JL for the first time, I would probably have 4Xe on my list. It ticks several of the boxes: it offers good value for money --especially after the tax credit, it would serve me well in my daily driving, and it offers decent fuel economy for a Jeep.

But given my situation, I cannot ignore its compromises. I'd have to deal with the uneven cargo floor, I'd have to learn the various modes to figure out which one makes most sense for me, and I would have to get used to the abruptness and engine noise of the 2.0T.

Like I said, when the time comes for me to get rid of this Wrangler, hopefully Jeep ironed out some of these.

 
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