Can the math work out to justify a 4xe?

michail

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Apr 22, 2021
Messages
568
Reaction score
280
Location
Florida
Vehicle(s)
2021 Sahara 4xe
The other thing stopping me is that I might literally lose my mind if we have a week long power outage from a hurricane and I CANT USE THE POWER FROM MY SOLAR PANELS BECAUSE THEY ARE TIED TO THE POWER GRID AND AUTO SHUT DOWN DURING A BLACKOUT. How fucked is that? I should be able to disconnect during an outage and at least have a small battery for power storage. My options shouldn't be just tied in and no power during an outage, or totally off-grid which is a lot more expensive.
Is that actually a law? I recall some years ago FPL was lobbying and spending for a bill. I just don't remember if the voters fell for it or not.
Advertisement

 

jpjpjp

Member
Joined
May 13, 2021
Messages
13
Reaction score
13
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
WRX, Cherokee
Most of us get 28+ miles. I don't know what's up with that EPA result of 21. I don't think I could get it to deplete that fast if I tried. Even Jeeps original 25 was low.
Missing 25 miles makes MA residents miss out on $1500, which is a bummer as they are so close.

I didn't realize the 4xe needs premium gas (at least suggested), which would be a pain like my wrx. I should add that the biggest interest is the 0-60 time of 6 seconds. One of the reasons I bought a $26K 6sp WRX instead of a $35K Wrangler was zipping to 60. The 4xe being faster and running on cheaper energy (not necessarily the greenest or most economical) is a nice and desired add-on. 4x4 and the jeep doors/top off is also a draw. I also need a pick-up (more like I could use a pick-up) as a 3rd vehicle and it would be useful for transfer station runs.

We drop $500+ at the summer's peak so solar was about saving money and powering a plug-in at some point. We didn't get the back-up battery as we already have a back-up generator. Cars might become back-up batteries to the grid at peak demand or power-outages possibly in the near future. It sounds like the panels will be automatically disconnected during an outage, which stinks.

If the Gladiator had the 4xe plus some doodad of the F150 power output outlets, plus a little more get-up and decent range, I am sold. If not, sign me up for the 4xe. I'd also buy the Magneto (if I could afford it at a reasonable price) right now. It looks just like some old dude's classic topless/doorless manual transmission wrangler that I see driving to the beach everyday in the summer. Perfect.
 

michail

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Apr 22, 2021
Messages
568
Reaction score
280
Location
Florida
Vehicle(s)
2021 Sahara 4xe
Missing 25 miles makes MA residents miss out on $1500, which is a bummer as they are so close.

I didn't realize the 4xe needs premium gas (at least suggested), which would be a pain like my wrx. I should add that the biggest interest is the 0-60 time of 6 seconds.
Actually, the supplemental 4xe manual does not recommend premium. The standard 2.0T does.

The 392 is crazy fast! The 4xe is a little sluggish off the line. It's best performance comes when already in motion. But at slow speeds it can creep along with nice torque.

One of the YouTubers I think timed a 5.7s 0-60 in 4Auto, traction control off, and the top removed for weight.

If there was a way to run the ICE at idle it may be even faster but I don't think there is any way you can as every mode it's off at a stop. Perhaps fuel refresh mode? Hmm, may be a possible Tazer feature.
 

jpjpjp

Member
Joined
May 13, 2021
Messages
13
Reaction score
13
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
WRX, Cherokee
Most of us get 28+ miles. I don't know what's up with that EPA result of 21. I don't think I could get it to deplete that fast if I tried. Even Jeeps original 25 was low.
I know MA had to cut it off at some point, but the variance varies so much based on driving, temperature, other systems running, etc. and it is SO close. I am not sure how many wranglers are on the road around the country, but there are a TON here. It would seem MA would want some of them to be plug-in's. If I promise to only drive it without the top and doors to optimize efficiency, maybe MA would reconsider :)

Please call the MA State House and plead my case! ;) $1500 would be nice! This is also why I am interested in buying closer to December so that I can get the rebate closer to the car purchase when I file taxes in Jan. I can't file 2021 taxes soon enough so as to get the solar and other rebates back.

Has anyone started a 4xe Rubicon vs Sahara thread? I'd be curious as to the pros and cons of each. The Sahara might qualify for the sub $50K threshold, which the Rubicon would fail.
 

Demonic

Well-Known Member
First Name
Austin
Joined
Jul 26, 2017
Messages
433
Reaction score
528
Location
MA
Vehicle(s)
2021 JLUR 4xe
I know MA had to cut it off at some point, but the variance varies so much based on driving, temperature, other systems running, etc. and it is SO close. I am not sure how many wranglers are on the road around the country, but there are a TON here. It would seem MA would want some of them to be plug-in's. If I promise to only drive it without the top and doors to optimize efficiency, maybe MA would reconsider :)

Please call the MA State House and plead my case! ;) $1500 would be nice! This is also why I am interested in buying closer to December so that I can get the rebate closer to the car purchase when I file taxes in Jan. I can't file 2021 taxes soon enough so as to get the solar and other rebates back.

Has anyone started a 4xe Rubicon vs Sahara thread? I'd be curious as to the pros and cons of each. The Sahara might qualify for the sub $50K threshold, which the Rubicon would fail.
I also thought the Sahara may qualify but MA lists each qualifying vehicle and none of the 4xe's are listed.
 

Echo4papa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
May 6, 2021
Messages
367
Reaction score
466
Location
Florida
Vehicle(s)
2021 Sahara 4xe
Occupation
Success Engineer
Is that actually a law? I recall some years ago FPL was lobbying and spending for a bill. I just don't remember if the voters fell for it or not.
Yeah, it's a safety concern for lineman, so that your power isn't charging a line they expect to be dead but that seems like there should be an easy solution.

If they can monitor and shut off your power when there's a blackout, then they should be able to monitor and shut you off from the grid instead. However, that might make solar more attractive and cause them issues? I don't know, just speculating on that part.
 

J0E

Well-Known Member
First Name
J0e
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
187
Reaction score
96
Location
Maui, MT, SLC, NYC
Website
bt39.com
Vehicle(s)
2021 JLR on 42's
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Drywall
When you cannot charge, you will get reduced gas mileage due to the extra weight, but you also get the extra power of electric drive if/when you want it.
Commuters who drive in stop-and-go traffic can save the most energy with this hybrid system. Braking energy is how it achieves 49 MPGe.

Many business have free charging stations. I'm lucky to live where I can charge off solar. Even without solar, with time of use billing, charging between 9 AM and 5 PM is less than half price.
 

jpjpjp

Member
Joined
May 13, 2021
Messages
13
Reaction score
13
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
WRX, Cherokee
I also thought the Sahara may qualify but MA lists each qualifying vehicle and none of the 4xe's are listed.
This was an email from the State regarding the eligibility. It is all about the 25 mile range :mad:

On a side note, justifying the math for a 4xe versus a new Gladiator or WRX. The 4xe is cheaper to insure (~300-$500/year), which is very surprising to me.

===========================
Good Morning,

Thank you for your email and interest in the Massachusetts Offers Rebates for Electric Vehicles program.

The Jeep Wrangler 4xe does not qualify for a MOR-EV rebate as the program requires that for a plug-in hybrid to be eligible it must have at a minimum an all-electric range of at least 25 miles. The Jeep Wrangler 4xe only has an all-electric range of 22 miles. I would recommend looking through our list of eligible vehicles as some of the other plug-in hybrids may be able to meet your needs.

I hope that this information has been helpful, please let me know if you have any further questions!

Kind Regards,

Project Coordinator, U.S. Transportation Programs
===========================
 

michail

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Apr 22, 2021
Messages
568
Reaction score
280
Location
Florida
Vehicle(s)
2021 Sahara 4xe
This was an email from the State regarding the eligibility. It is all about the 25 mile range :mad:

On a side note, justifying the math for a 4xe versus a new Gladiator or WRX. The 4xe is cheaper to insure (~300-$500/year), which is very surprising to me.

===========================
Good Morning,

Thank you for your email and interest in the Massachusetts Offers Rebates for Electric Vehicles program.

The Jeep Wrangler 4xe does not qualify for a MOR-EV rebate as the program requires that for a plug-in hybrid to be eligible it must have at a minimum an all-electric range of at least 25 miles. The Jeep Wrangler 4xe only has an all-electric range of 22 miles. I would recommend looking through our list of eligible vehicles as some of the other plug-in hybrids may be able to meet your needs.

I hope that this information has been helpful, please let me know if you have any further questions!

Kind Regards,

Project Coordinator, U.S. Transportation Programs
===========================
Perhaps we can call the EPAs 21 mile range into question. Although, they are saying 22 in that email. I think the Express Lane pass we have in Florida changes to 30 miles for 2021.
 

Skippy477

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Apr 21, 2021
Messages
46
Reaction score
40
Location
Pennsylvania
Vehicle(s)
2021 Wrangler Sahara 4xe
I didn't consider getting a 4xe since most of my drives are far beyond its 30-mile range. For example, in a week I'll head off to Grand Canyon's North Rim, a roughly 1,800-mile round trip with virtually no place one could recharge a vehicle conveniently. Even "around town" most of my drives are far in excess of 30 miles.

So I'm wondering about the economics of having a 4xe. From what I read, the list price for the 4xe is about $14,000 higher than the list price for my JL. I live in San Diego, the home of stratospheric gas prices, so let's say a gallon will cost me $4.00. That means I can buy 3,500 gallons with the $14,000. I'm getting about 24 mpg, so those 3,500 gallons translate into 84,000 road miles.

There simply is no way I could rack up 84,000 miles in 30-mile electrified chunks around town. (That would be 2,800 short trips, such as commutes.) Even if I could reach that many local trips, most of my miles still would be long-distance miles powered by gas. I might have to drive the better part of a million miles to recapture the $14,000 via the battery, and that's not even worth imagining.

So, for me, the 4xe seems to make no sense, given the large price differential. Have you, as a driver of a 4xe, calculated that your style of driving will allow you to recapture the $14,000?
I think it depends on what trim level you are comparing and what options you plan to get. A Wrangler sport is $32075, a 4xe starts at $47995 even after the $7500 tax credit, and potential fuel savings, there's no way to make that make economic sense, but if the point of comparison is a Sahara versus a Sahara 4xe, or a Rubicon vs a Rubicon 4xe, then the 4xe is actually a better deal. The Sahara is $39170 vs $47995 for the 4xe and the Rubicon is $42790 vs $51695 for the Rubicon. So the difference is $8825-$8905 but that's before the tax rebate. Take that into account and the difference is only $1325-$1405 and the gas savings would easily make up that difference. If you plan on getting an automatic transmission, leather seats, upgraded sound system and/or LED light package, then the 4xe is actually cheaper even without the gas savings as all of those are standard on the 4xe but pricey options on the gas versions at the same trim level.
 

Ratiogear

Well-Known Member
First Name
Justin
Joined
Apr 15, 2021
Messages
230
Reaction score
398
Location
DFW
Vehicle(s)
2021 4xe Rubicon
I think it depends on what trim level you are comparing and what options you plan to get. A Wrangler sport is $32075, a 4xe starts at $47995 even after the $7500 tax credit, and potential fuel savings, there's no way to make that make economic sense, but if the point of comparison is a Sahara versus a Sahara 4xe, or a Rubicon vs a Rubicon 4xe, then the 4xe is actually a better deal. The Sahara is $39170 vs $47995 for the 4xe and the Rubicon is $42790 vs $51695 for the Rubicon. So the difference is $8825-$8905 but that's before the tax rebate. Take that into account and the difference is only $1325-$1405 and the gas savings would easily make up that difference. If you plan on getting an automatic transmission, leather seats, upgraded sound system and/or LED light package, then the 4xe is actually cheaper even without the gas savings as all of those are standard on the 4xe but pricey options on the gas versions at the same trim level.
This is a great reply. Important to note however, that the total 8825-8905$ premium is giving you all those extra options PLUS the HP and torque of the 4xe. So the math changes further (to the advantage of the 4xe) if you want to get an auto transmission (1500$ more) or an auto transmission on a v6 engine (3000$ more) or the turbodiesel (6000$ more).
 
Advertisement

Motor City Aftermarket
 
Advertisement
Top