Buy a 19 JLR V6 or wait for the '20 Turbo?

[Hudson]

I DO NOT intend this as another V6 vs Turbo thread devolving into fanboy rhetoric. Rather, curious about thoughts/reactions from current Turbo owners who may have considered the same issues in their decision making.

I'm convinced I want a JLR (2 dr, auto, hardtop) and while I really liked the BSG Turbo 4, I ultimately decided that long term it may not be the right choice, a decision made easier by FCA dropping the engine from the 2020 JLR. But the non-BSG engine creates a completely new set of considerations since it pits two non-BSG engines against each other.

I'll be using the JLR primarily as a daily driver, non-highway (15 miles of mostly flat rural country roads at 45-55mph then 5 miles of suburban city traffic at maybe 30 mph, then in reverse for the home commute). But as I live in the PNW and have easy (30 min) access to great forest roads and trails of various difficulty, this was enough to tempt me to consider the Rubicon over the Sport S. Also, the road to my house is a steeper 2 mile climb up 1000' that gets difficult for about 2 weeks out of the year in the winter snows with an 8-10% grade in a section, where locking differentials mean the difference between getting home by driving vs. walking, and getting out of my 900 ft driveway. I have a RAM 2500 Cummins where my experience is that the 4WDL is essential to get up the hill and help get my neighbors out of ditches. (Providing this info mostly as to why I chose the Rubi over the very capable S).

If it matters to engine choice, I am unlikely (at least in the first few years) to do the super hard core steep rock crawling, but will try out some intermediate trails and muddy areas.

Why I like the idea of the turbo:
I like the idea of getting mid 20s mostly due to the range and not having to more frequently gas up. I also like the added torque. I like the performance at higher altitudes, as I am surrounded by 4000" and higher ranges. I'm less concerned about how the turbo engine will hold up after 150k miles so long as it holds up for at least 150k miles. My missus drives a 328D wagon with a turbo 4 diesel that is amazing. I especially like that FCA dropped the BSG as a requirement, which I suspect the tech reliability would be an issue above 80-100k miles, and now I'd just need to contend with the issues of a turbo DI engine vs the V6.

So why I am considering a V6?
Longevity, known quantity, and the fact I can get one pretty much now (and maybe a better discount on a 2019 model?). Doing some comparisons of gas costs, it also looks like the actual fuel savings between a 2dr JLR V6 vs Turbo are likely to be less than $400 annually given my annual mileage, when I factor in premium fuel costs and real world MPGs. Long term, it will be interesting to see if the V6 has a higher resale value or whether this is a wash.

So I am completely open to a turbo, non-BSG option. It would be easier if there were reviews of the new engine, and some real world MPG and driving info. What would sway me towards waiting for the Turbo would be a sense that the non-BSG turbo will still get really good MPG and not differ fundamentally from the performance of the current BSG Turbo.

What would you do in my shoes, having the experience of the Turbo but not the non-BSG version?

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[AnnDee4444]

I wouldn't read too much into the fact that FCA decided not to offer a 2020 BSG 2.0. I highly doubt that this was a longevity/reliability decision, especially since they added BSG to other motors at the same time as removing it from the 2.0. It is likely more to do with simplifying their product line while meeting certain CAFE standards.

Longevity is obviously unknown, but I think longevity has more to do with proper maintenance & diagnosis of potential problems. We are all watching & waiting to find out what sort of demons the 2.0 has. BSG/eTorque looks like it might have some issues charging at extremely low off-road speeds, but it seems to only be a few members at this time.

2.0 mileage will depend on how hard you drive. Does freeway mean 65mph, or 75mph? The mileage drops dramatically between these two speeds, all the way down to about 13mpg at 80mph in a JLR. I suspect that the 3.6 might get better mileage at the higher freeway speeds, since there it can probably run leaner without having to deal with boost. I actually get better mileage in stop & go traffic than freeway, and I'm a bit of a lead-foot.

For me the decision to get the 2.0 was not based on mileage anyway. I knew I was getting the automatic, and wanted the motor with more torque and the ability to produce torque at higher altitudes (since it is a Jeep). The diesel 3.0 will not be available in the 2-door, so that narrowed it down to the 2.0.

 

[Hudson]

2.0 mileage will depend on how hard you drive. Does freeway mean 65mph, or 75mph? The mileage drops dramatically between these two speeds, all the way down to about 13mpg at 80mph in a JLR. I suspect that the 3.6 might get better mileage at the higher freeway speeds, since there it can probably run leaner without having to deal with boost. I actually get better mileage in stop & go traffic than freeway, and I'm a bit of a lead-foot.

Thanks AnnDee for the thoughtful response. I’m lucky that the Wrangler is actually a third vehicle in our stall - if longer faster highway travel is needed I have better options. On our trip to SF in my wife’s 328d we averaged 38 mpg at speeds of 75-80 mph!

I’m just hoping to get 20-22 mpg avg for my weekly commute, and want to enjoy the drive every day. I was considering a sports car convertible but decided it was wasted on the commute and useless in the winter, and I have vintage cars to play with if the urge strikes.

I recalled my 2 years in a TJ back in the late 90s before family, and a recent test drive sold me on owning a Wrangler again. My past two sedans (both Japanese and 28 mpg) have been gifted to my boys and while they were economical and reliable commuters, they were boring as hell to drive. So it’s time for something fun over something sensible.

So now it’s just come down to an engine choice. I usually turn over cars every 3-4 years but a few of my favorites I’ve kept longer, and one of my boys will surely hassle me to inherit the Wrangler years later if I opt to change, so longevity is a factor.

I may need to hold off a month until the 2020s hit the lot and I can test out the new turbo.

 

[Hudson]

If longevity is a concern, why are you considering a rubicon? There’s a lot more to go wrong on a rubicon compared to a sport.
I bought the 2.0 because it was so much more responsive compared to the v6. And while it is complicated, it doesn’t seem over complicated, and in a few years it will be old tech that anyone can work on.
The BSG makes it a contender, without it, there’s big low end power loss.

BigGreen, thanks for the response. What specific stuff on a Rubicon is problematic? The lockers and sway bar disconnect? I hadn't heard about those, so interesting if they are problematic. It's the D44 axles I really want both front and rear, plus the locks, for mud and deep snow. The sway bar is probably less of an issue for me, though it opens up new challenges.

On the BSG issue, that is my fear with the 2020 Turbo, that it is noticeably less responsive (or with lag), or that the gas mileage benefit effectively is muted, in which case the V6 seems like a better path. I really liked the 2.0 BSG example I drove, the power was impressive, smooth, all you stated. It's just the complexity and cost of an out-of-warranty battery issue that would give me pause - I would plan to either keep long term or give to one of my boys if I decide down the road to switch.

Appreciate all perspectives, keep em coming, as I only want to cry once when I pay for my order!

 

[jameslavis]

I have the 19 2.0 and love it. It's MPG is incredible, 25+. I don't climb so I have no concerns nor do i feel the move to remove etorque is bad. I won't hesitate.

 

[ViperJon]

I believe the Rubicons are like the Sahara’s with auto windows, locks and lights, anti theft, upgraded stereo, complex digital instrument cluster, then there are the electric swaybar and diff locks. Badass when they work, but just lots of stuff that could go wrong and ruin the experience, you know?
With the low expectations I have with the Sport, I think my overall experience will be more enjoyable long term.

So all the things that make a Rubicon a Rubicon are a negative. Gotta check that logic. "Could" go wrong is speculation based on exactly nothing isn't it?

 

[AnnDee4444]

Ok. As ridiculous as some of this is, you could argue that everything unique to the Rubicon makes it MORE reliable:

• Dana 44s will be a more reliable axle due to their ability to handle more torque.
• Added ground clearance & approach/departure angles will make the Rubicon more reliable, since you won't be dragging/scraping as much.
• Hood vents could let more heat out of the engine bay, leading to greater reliability.
• Lockers, 4:1 T-case, & sway bar disconnect could keep you from situations where the Jeep would get damaged or submerged.
• Rubicon hood stickers are matte & logos not reflective, other drivers less likely to be blinded and crash into you.
• Interior red stitching won't show blood, so it will last longer than white stitching. /s

The OP isn't trying to decide between Rubicon/Sport, they are comparing 2.0/3.6.

 

[DesertFox]

If longevity is a concern, why are you considering a rubicon?....

He wants to be able to drive to his home rather that walk to it. In his experience the hardware difference on the Rubi is essential. That’s why.

Yeah, all that electronic sh** is unreliable, he should just buy a new 1980 CJ-5. No fancy stuff there.......analog baby!



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[Hudson]

I am taking for granted that the electric bells and whistles of the Rubicon, Sahara, and Sport + are potential gremlins for ultra long term ownership, but that potential doesn't phase me about the Rubicon vs. a stripped down Sport. More focused on the engine performance, reliability, and service. I do some of my own service at home - fluid and air/fuel filter changes, mild tune ups, brakes, installs (I am lucky to have a lift in my shop). So my questions about Rubicon reliability were more to the more involved mechanical things - e.g. if the axles, transfer case, or lockers were prone to failure where my budding shop skills could be exceeded, and it sounds like they are not.

I could easily exist with a Sport but where a Rubicon would come in handy is about 3 weeks out of the year, when we are potentially prone for some heavy snowfall. Pic attached of our last snow. My RAM was able to exit my property but only in 4wd low for a few sections. The hill to my neighborhood claimed many cars, including several GCs that were unable to make it up the hill. My RAM, and various neighbors that had Rubicons, FJs and other beasts, made good work of the hill. The trick seemed to be the ability to lock a differential or transfer case to push through heavy stuff at slow speed. Snowfall locked in our neighborhood to the point where we had to get a posse of tractor owners to help with the plowing, given that many neighbors were older, and lived down long driveways that were not passable without a plow. I ended up buying a Kubota L2501, in part to address the snow impact but mostly because - who doesn't want to play with a tractor?

Back to the original question - I can safely say I am on the fence with the various responses. My attempts to rent a JK demonstrated that the Jeep was suitable as a daily driver for my 23 mile each way commute (non-freeway). I would guess that the 2.0 non BSG turbo will be closer to 22-24 mpg, and the 3.6 will be closer to 18-20 mpg (that was my experience in the JK rental in Los Angeles, where I saw as much as 22 and little as 16, with a 6 speed auto and V6).

I'm looking at two Rubicons this weekend, both with 3.6 8 spds, and if a great deal can be had I could go that direction, otherwise I am tempted to hold tight a month or two and test the new turbo.

 

[OffroadTreks]

Just gonna leave this here. If you're DD 25 miles each day, this is what I average on 37's.

I'm pretty damn happy about the BSG too.

 

[Hudson]

I plan on keeping with the stock Rubi setup - 33's. Hopefully with either engine, 20-22 mpgs are achievable.

 

[Strommen95]

You've been on this forum long enough to see what can go wrong, and these vehicles are low mileage. If OP is planning on keeping it 20+ years, the less electronics the better. Repair costs are much lower, this is based on experience.

If you go any car forum you’ll see plenty of things could go wrong with any brands low mileage vehicle. There’s several hundred thousand JLs out there and Wrangler owners are typically enthusiasts. Of course issues will be posted on forums. You make it seem like a Wrangler with any options is waiting to fall a part. I don’t disagree with you that the less electronics the better. But I can honestly say I’ve never once heard of lockers, swaybar disconnect, higher gears in Rubi, etc causing issues at all for a TJ, JK, or JL. Certain things are relatively trouble free. I’d be worried about ESS, the key fob, and UConnect before anything you mentioned.

 

[AnnDee4444]

You know what they say about assuming.
You've been on this forum long enough to see what can go wrong, and these vehicles are low mileage. If OP is planning on keeping it 20+ years, the less electronics the better. Repair costs are much lower, this is based on experience.

Story time:
A long time ago I was going to purchase a new Chevy S-10. I listened to my father's advice to never get power windows, because "Power windows are just one more thing to break". Guess what the first thing that broke on that truck? The drivers side window crank handle. I still have the truck, and still wish it had power windows.

Moral of the story: You never know what is going to break, and trying to predict it could leave you with something you don't actually want.

Side note: The S-10 seat recline handle is also notorious for breaking. This handle is not present on power seats. Chevy really cheaped-out on the base model parts.

 

[OffroadTreks]

If you go any car forum you’ll see plenty of things could go wrong with any brands low mileage vehicle. There’s several hundred thousand JLs out there and Wrangler owners are typically enthusiasts. Of course issues will be posted on forums. You make it seem like a Wrangler with any options is waiting to fall a part. I don’t disagree with you that the less electronics the better. But I can honestly say I’ve never once heard of lockers, swaybar disconnect, higher gears in Rubi, etc causing issues at all for a TJ, JK, or JL. Certain things are relatively trouble free. I’d be worried about ESS, the key fob, and UConnect before anything you mentioned.

New owners tend to be more vocal. Not only that, but just look at unit sales numbers vs the 5 or so people who got on here to report a problem.

 

[Lou Bunn]

I would wait and drive the 2.0 without the BSG, it may be the better than coming home to a wife with that look in her eyes- you know what I mean. Or it may be worst than a wet fart. But either way, at least you’ll know for sure

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