Build a JLU Sport S vs. Buy JLU Rubicon? Pros and Cons?

[ChattVol]

I sorta disagree here. Lunchbox lockers have their place. They have their quirks and drawbacks too.....the big advantage is the price. The bigger your tire, the less likely you'll be to notice them. That said, they have a pretty high (IMO) failure rate....25% eventually fail (according to the SW US regional PowerTrax sales rep back in the day). That's mostly due to wear patterns in the factory carrier that houses the much harder Zytel locker parts you replace your spider gears with. Even with thrust washers....you get oscillation that can eventually wear through the carrier and cause a failure. If you install in a new carrier....they are actually very reliable.

But who would do that when you have to buy a factory new carrier AND set up gears on it?

Well, compared to a full Detroit Softlocker with its known problematic dog clutches wherein when an axle blows it, very efficiently, transfers all torque to the opposing axle....transferring the power through the Detroit and dog clutches that then explode and sometimes even break the other axle. Comparatively, the LockRight (as an example) doesn't have the dog clutch problem. You break an axle....and it's just the axle that's broken, not the locker too. So in some cases, it may make sense to go with the "cheaper" alternative.

Selectables like ARB, Zip and Eaton Electric have their own +/-.

@Krondor @Sean K. @Flip888
I'm starting locker research. What are your thoughts on something like this when it comes out for the new jlus d30 and d35 axles? Thanks again!

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[ChattVol]

That's a "lunchbox" locker....the kind I was mentioning earlier. They have their +/-....you have to weigh it out vs. what they cost and decide.

I have no idea on the latest iteration of the rear D35 axle; does it still use c-clips to hold the axles into the diff...and....does it now have disc brakes?

Will you define a lunchbox locker and how do they compare to oem rubicon lockers?

 

[rogo]

I suggest a very thorough sport s vs Sahara vs rubicon comparison to see if any little things you are giving up you may care about:

Not avail / after market on sport S:
LED headlights not avail on sport s ... after market weak currently.
8.4” screen not ava on sport s (HD radio not an option on sport s)
USB in back seat center console not avail on sport s
AC power in cargo not avail on sport s
Gap filler in cargo after market on sport s
Footwell lighting not avail on sport
Paint fenders not avail on sport
PAint hard too not avail on sport

Rubi fenders are higher
Rubi comes w sliders
Rubi suspension is better / higher
Rubi hood is cooler
Rubi wheels / tires better and you can sell for $1200+ if you want to “upgrade”

Lastly, Rubi will hold resale value better vs a pricey sport s??

I have a sport s and like it a lot, but I’d like some of above.

Adding @ChattVol comments:
You left off some of the most expensive upgrades...the base level rubicon comes stock with dana 44 axles, 4.10 gears and lockers. Adding those three features aftermarket to a sport will cost $7k+.

You can't get a better summary than this folks if you are on the fence on which model JL Wrangler to buy.

 

[ChattVol]

A lunchbox locker is a drop in locker...it drops into your existing open differential (not necessarily a limited slip diff) carrier in place of your spider gears. B/c it doesn't include the carrier's case, it is less expensive....and, you don't have to reset your gear pattern like you would if you replaced the carrier.

They are NOT selectable like Rubicon lockers....so you cannot turn them off. They are constantly on...and work automatically, with no switches or electronics to fail. But, they ratchet, make noise, pop and bang from time to time...and they exhibit different handling characteristics that you have to get used to driving with. They will slightly increase your tire wear. You shouldn't drive with a heavy foot on pavement or you risk breaking drivetrain parts.

Also, your rear D35 is a fairly weak axle design. The locker will allow you to get into more severe offroad conditions that could result a broken rear shaft and if the design is still "c-clip"....then the rear axle can walk out of the differential, unless your axle has disk brakes and then the caliper will often times keep the wheel on (though you have to be very careful once the break occurs so that damage to the brake caliper brackets, etc. doesn't occur).

Their biggest advantage is the price....but the drawbacks can be deemed severe by one person and quite manageable for another. That part is pretty subjective. As I said before....the bigger your tires, the less you notice the handling oddities in general.

The reason to get them is if your wheeling dictates that you need all 4 tires to pull regardless of the situation. Many people will argue that they're only needed for "rockcrawling", but in truth, general trail riding that has ledges or where the terrain exceeds your suspension travel or where there's very deep mud or snow will greatly benefit from a true locking differential.

The question becomes: for the price, do the benefits offroad outweigh the drawbacks on road. You're the only one that can answer that question.

Great info...so if lunchbox lockers are constantly engaged and you drive on road 95% of the time, it seems that it would be very bad to have front lockers engaged on road and simply backing up in your driveway and turning the steering wheel while on pavement? Wouldn't that mean the tires are trying to roll at the same speed which isnt desired when turning on road? Having lockers engaged seems crazy for daily driver use on road...how is that even possible?

Secondly, what is the ballpark price for lockers(and necessary components) that you can manually turn on/off?

 

[ChattVol]

They aren't "constantly" engaged...they are locking and unlocking as the wheels on the same axle achieve different speeds. Basically, a full time locker unlocks the outside wheel in a turn and it simply coasts while the inside one is powered.

And...up front, your FAD system is uncoupling the shaft from the diff so the locker is essentially disconnected from the passenger side shaft when you are in 2wd.

Selectables (ones you can turn on/off) run about $1K per axle and then you have to reset your gear pattern. If you go ARB or Zip, you'll also need to buy an air compressor to engage them. Installation can be pricey....especially if you regear at the same time and you buy Master Install kits for the bearings. It is not uncommon to be $2500-3K into a f/r ARB swap.

Thanks..this is making more sense. The lunchbox lockers seem like a much more reasonable option as long as the popping and tire wear isnt too noticeable. I've seen rubi folks selling takeoff front and rear d44 axles for $3500. If that includes 4.10 gearing, selectable lockers and driveshaft, that may be a bargain?

 

[ChattVol]

$3500 would be a great deal for front & rear axles....only issue *might* be wiring harnesses. Not sure your Sport will have the correct wiring harness to run the lockers.

The ratcheting is noticeable to other people as you pull into parking spaces. The really loud pops (though rare) sound like a gunshot going off.

Hmm...doesnt sound like I'll be adding lockers. I'll learn to make the sport work

 

[ChattVol]

Totally fine. Some people aren't okay with the drawbacks and others just don't want the added expense. You have to do what makes sense for you.

Yeah...Maybe I'll get lucky and find a slightly used base rubi jl for $35k and get a decent trade value on mine.

 

[ChattVol]

That would seem to make the most sense if you really want the Rubicon package. The thing we haven't even discussed yet is the 4:1 tcase....which by itself would be around $2K to add to a Sport.

I did a quick rubi search on autotrader and 2 local dealers...it's surprising to see how much lightly optioned Rubi prices have jumped in last 6 months. There used to be a few 6 speeds in the $39-41k range and now the 100 or so I searched are $44-48k.

 

[Iggy]

Buying a Rubicon will save you tons of hours of reverse engineering the wiring, and then installing new springs, shocks, axles, HD brakes, high-arc fenders, a couple of decals, switches, dashboard, transfer case, drive shaft, wheels, and tires.

And you'll only be able to sell it as a Sport S 'with all the Rubicon stuff on it' and not as a Rubicon.

 

[entropy]

Buying a Rubicon will save you tons of hours of reverse engineering the wiring, and then installing new springs, shocks, axles, HD brakes, high-arc fenders, a couple of decals, switches, dashboard, transfer case, drive shaft, wheels, and tires.

And you'll only be able to sell it as a Sport S 'with all the Rubicon stuff on it' and not as a Rubicon.

Yeap. But it is fun to customize your jeep!. And aftermarket parts like ARB lockers are better than the e-lockers from the rubicon for example.

But I agree, if you're gonna end up falling into a Jeep lifestyle taking the jeep on the dirt often, just get the damn Rubicon.

The sport is really nice though for beginners, like myself, to grow into it. And forces you to do upgrades you might not have done with a Rubi, like installing a new suspension. You learn A LOT wheeling and owning a sport first time rather than a Rubi, unless you know you will heavily modify your Rubi. It is like MTB, you become much more skilled with a hardtail MTB than a full suspension.

I've installed sway bar disconnects, rubi suspension, rock sliders, bumper coming, etc... and when I bought the jeep I didn't even know how to turn a wrench. I am doing my own oil changes and tire rotations now, and understand the Jeep much better. Oh and I am not afraid of cutting a tab off my axle to get those quick discos installed! lol.

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