BSG vs ESS A simple explanation please.

geospyder

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I've built my first jeep from the ground up. BUT that was many, many years ago. Back when you carried extra jets for the carburetor when you went to the mountains. Also gapped the points with a match book cover. Those were the days - yah - right. At any rate humor the old guy. The last vehicle I bought was my 2007 Rubicon. I have no idea what DSG or ESS are. Please give me a simple explanation as to what they are.
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BillyHW

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ESS turns the engine off at a stop light to save a little bit of gas when you've got your foot on the brake. Then, when you lift your foot off the brake, it turns the engine back on before you even touch the accelerator. In theory. There's a button to turn it off.

BSG has a little generator/motor and a little battery to save some of that braking energy before you came to the stop, so that it can then in turn gain that energy back to help you accelerate when the light turns green before the engine really has a chance to turn back on. It's supposed to make ESS more responsive. It will also save a little bit of gas.

Neither of them are worth the headaches IMHO.
 

The Great Grape Ape

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ESS simply means Engine Stop Start, and that's exactly all it requires, a system to stop and then restart the engine at intersections or in traffic without driver intervention.

Now from the early experiences with ESS they discovered it was tougher on components, so they added to vehicle with ESS a stronger battery, and a stronger starter and alternator. And it also works beter when systems can be accounted for once engine power is lost.

Which was the start of the Enhanced Starter solution, but the system was still sluggish and rough to restart.

So next they used a stronger starter and generator and battery that could actually propel the vehicle for short bursts, this also smooths out the rough restarting. The version of this that is driven by a Belt is the Belt Starter Generator (BSG) also goes by other names.There are also similar systems that are clutch driven, etc, and they start to move into more Hybrid-like action/design.

Essentially the ESS is the process by which to save fuel by turning off the engine, the BSG is the piece of hardware that makes it less harsh and more responsive, and can also provide a small boost in power to help overcome intertia and also reduce the feeling of waiting for the vehicle to get going again.

ESS Explained separate from most other items explaining the upgraded requirements now for just the ESS;


BSG explained using Bosch's BRS as the example which has Boost and Coast functions Wrangler likely won't;



Also, a DSG is a Direct-Shift-Gearbox transmission, aka DCT Dual-Clutch-Transmission. The Wrangler will not get one of those.

 
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geospyder

geospyder

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Thanks guys - now I feel somewhat enlightened (had to use that word since I received my visas for India today) - had no idea this was available on non-hybrid or electric cars.
 

southtj

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Will ESS and BSG work on manual transmissions as well as automatics?
 

robplumm

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Simply put, Yes.
Yup...have driven ESS manuals in Germany. Very odd at first....didn't realize the vehicle had it so thought I stalled it at the intersection :D But as soon as the clutch was depressed, it started back up.

Not a fan and just turned it off. Still have a hard time believing that all the starting/stopping of the engine is very good for it in the long run.

As an aside...in Germany, the laws around idling vehicles are rather....interesting. I almost came to blows with the MIL's husband because I wanted to warm the car up so we could actually see out of the front window in the morning.
 

digitalbliss

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Yup...have driven ESS manuals in Germany. Very odd at first....didn't realize the vehicle had it so thought I stalled it at the intersection :D But as soon as the clutch was depressed, it started back up.

Not a fan and just turned it off. Still have a hard time believing that all the starting/stopping of the engine is very good for it in the long run.

As an aside...in Germany, the laws around idling vehicles are rather....interesting. I almost came to blows with the MIL's husband because I wanted to warm the car up so we could actually see out of the front window in the morning.
I'm not sure anyone can ague that ESS is good for any engine. Just as EGR is inherently bad for the engine (specially in diesels) yet all modern engines have them. It's regulations that drive these things. BUT, with that said, with a modern engine, even with things like EGR and ESS are lasting longer. Generally speaking, vehicles are getting much more reliable and have a much longer life span. All of this is being done with better fuel economy (even with ethanol blended fuel) and lower emissions.
 

The Great Grape Ape

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Not a fan and just turned it off. Still have a hard time believing that all the starting/stopping of the engine is very good for it in the long run.
Yeah, as mentioned it's definitely not beneficial for the engine, but they are also accounting for the stresses in designing components to reduce the impact of those activities.
The engine not continually bathing parts in oil allows components to come to rest against each other losing some of that oil film separation and then judder under restart was bad. However after a few of these vehicles showing wear/damage, they have now redesigned the oiling system, the bearings and components that were an issue.
The hope is that the areas that are vulnerable and under stress are properly upgraded to equal out over the average life of the vehicles. And realistically for those who aren't in traffic a lot, or disable ESS, those engines should now last even longer because they get all the upgraded components, but none of the increase start-cycles.
 

The Great Grape Ape

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Will ESS and BSG work on manual transmissions as well as automatics?
Yeah, I was going to include another link to some other vids which had manual transmission examples, but I preferred how CNET went more into the extra info than Bosch's stop-start that included MT.

Bosch's ESS, specifically detailing manual transmission process (edited/update, previous link broken);


Valeo's BSG example has enhanced starter and BSG and manual transmission examples;

 
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The_Phew

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BSG actually has driveability benefits beyond just the obvious fuel economy benefit:
-More torque off the line
-Smoother torque delivery (in theory, it should act like a zero-lag turbocharger at low engine RPMs)
-More effective engine braking (since the generator adds its own 'braking', mitigating brake wear)
In theory it should improve engine life as well, since it's relieving stress from the engine during its most strenuous duty cycle (city driving).


If the ESS system is anything like my prior BMW F30, it's unobtrusive in conjunction with a manual transmission. If you don't want the engine to turn off at a stoplight, keep the clutch engaged. With a MT, you have total control over the system. Sometimes it makes sense to let the engine shut off if you know you'll be stationary for the next couple minutes.
 

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I've built my first jeep from the ground up. BUT that was many, many years ago. Back when you carried extra jets for the carburetor when you went to the mountains. Also gapped the points with a match book cover. Those were the days - yah - right. At any rate humor the old guy. The last vehicle I bought was my 2007 Rubicon. I have no idea what DSG or ESS are. Please give me a simple explanation as to what they are.
Basically if you hang onto vehicles for a long time (which it seems you might), these BSG/ESS components are another aspect which could end up costing you considerable cash, if they have problems down the road. I'll be interested to start examining prices for JL replacement parts, such as the enhanced starters for these systems and other related components. Gone are the days of a $35 rebuilt starter or alternator. Damn I recently replaced the fuel pump on my CJ-7 for $15!
 
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