Pennsylvania Bought at both Koons and Criswell - My experiences

[TheRaven]

Thought this might be a unique review because many of us have purchased from one of these two mega-dealers but I bet few of us have purchased from BOTH.

I purchased a new Challenger Scat Pack from Koons and a new Wrangler JLU 80th from Criswell. Both in the last month, and both vehicles came right from the factory. The Challenger took 4 weeks to ship (spent most of that time sitting in a transfer yard) and the Wrangler took 4 days. In fact, the Wrangler was ordered, built, and shipped to the dealer in almost half the time it took just for the Challenger to ship. I don't think this necessarily reflects on the dealers themselves though as shipping this year is notoriously messy.

In the interest of keeping this review from becoming a novel, I will focus on comparing the two experiences. First off, both were among the better experiences i've had at any car dealer ever. Keeping in mind that these are still car salesmen, and you are still going to have to suffer through some of the classic car dealer nonsense, i'll say that both Koons and Criswell are among the "as good as it's going to get" crowd. Both dealers were very straightforward with pricing, with Craig at Koons just going with the "rock bottom price" approach, no fluff, no options, this-is-the-price-now-how-would-you-like-to-pay, and Leon at Criswell offering a couple different ways to go. This is why I ended up working with both dealers because due to the financing I was using in each case, Craig ended up having the better price for the Challenger and Leon ended up having the better price for the Wrangler.

The differences between the two all stem from how each rep does business. Craig is very efficient and business-like...he likes to optimize his time and keep things moving. This results in a slightly more "cold" feeling than with Leon. However I wouldn't necessarily put this in the "negative" category because it results in the buyer getting in and out quickly, and I think most of us would appreciate that. Craig and Leon are both great about communication, though Leon is more pro-active and Craig is more re-active, only contacting you when he needs something. Leon kept up with me regularly to update me on build and shipping status, I didn't even have to ask. Even though I always had to ask Craig for updates, he always got back to me within a few (business) hours. Craig had a comprehensive list of everything he needed from me on the day my car arrived, so I made my delivery appointment and in the days leading up to delivery day, I was able to get him all the documentation he needed so we didn't need to do that on-site. I believe it took about 1.5 hours at the dealer including a 15 minute delay at the beginning while he finished up with another customer and a 20 minute wait for the F&I rep. The process with Leon was much more laid back. I just took all the standard documentation with me on delivery day. I was at Criswell for over four hours, however that did include a trade valuation process that we ended up bailing on because Ally is scum (don't ever lease with Ally or USBank but that's a different topic), and Leon did a thorough "training" for my wife on her new Wrangler while I did not ask Craig to go over the Challenger at all.

The end result is that both dealers enabled us to get about the best price anyone is going to be able to get on either vehicle, and both dealers provided positive experiences for us. I recommend you check with BOTH Craig and Leon if you are in the market because depending on your situation one could be better than the other. For us, because I was effectively buying the Challenger, but leasing the Wrangler, Craig ended up being the better choice for the Challenger buy, and Leon ended up being the better choice for the Wrangler lease. As always, YMMV.

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[Gee-pah]

Thought this might be a unique review because many of us have purchased from one of these two mega-dealers but I bet few of us have purchased from BOTH.

I purchased a new Challenger Scat Pack from Koons and a new Wrangler JLU 80th from Criswell. Both in the last month, and both vehicles came right from the factory. The Challenger took 4 weeks to ship (spent most of that time sitting in a transfer yard) and the Wrangler took 4 days. In fact, the Wrangler was ordered, built, and shipped to the dealer in almost half the time it took just for the Challenger to ship. I don't think this necessarily reflects on the dealers themselves though as shipping this year is notoriously messy.

In the interest of keeping this review from becoming a novel, I will focus on comparing the two experiences. First off, both were among the better experiences i've had at any car dealer ever. Keeping in mind that these are still car salesmen, and you are still going to have to suffer through some of the classic car dealer nonsense, i'll say that both Koons and Criswell are among the "as good as it's going to get" crowd. Both dealers were very straightforward with pricing, with Craig at Koons just going with the "rock bottom price" approach, no fluff, no options, this-is-the-price-now-how-would-you-like-to-pay, and Leon at Criswell offering a couple different ways to go. This is why I ended up working with both dealers because due to the financing I was using in each case, Craig ended up having the better price for the Challenger and Leon ended up having the better price for the Wrangler.

The differences between the two all stem from how each rep does business. Craig is very efficient and business-like...he likes to optimize his time and keep things moving. This results in a slightly more "cold" feeling than with Leon. However I wouldn't necessarily put this in the "negative" category because it results in the buyer getting in and out quickly, and I think most of us would appreciate that. Craig and Leon are both great about communication, though Leon is more pro-active and Craig is more re-active, only contacting you when he needs something. Leon kept up with me regularly to update me on build and shipping status, I didn't even have to ask. Even though I always had to ask Craig for updates, he always got back to me within a few (business) hours. Craig had a comprehensive list of everything he needed from me on the day my car arrived, so I made my delivery appointment and in the days leading up to delivery day, I was able to get him all the documentation he needed so we didn't need to do that on-site. I believe it took about 1.5 hours at the dealer including a 15 minute delay at the beginning while he finished up with another customer and a 20 minute wait for the F&I rep. The process with Leon was much more laid back. I just took all the standard documentation with me on delivery day. I was at Criswell for over four hours, however that did include a trade valuation process that we ended up bailing on because Ally is scum (don't ever lease with Ally or USBank but that's a different topic), and Leon did a thorough "training" for my wife on her new Wrangler while I did not ask Craig to go over the Challenger at all.

The end result is that both dealers enabled us to get about the best price anyone is going to be able to get on either vehicle, and both dealers provided positive experiences for us. I recommend you check with BOTH Craig and Leon if you are in the market because depending on your situation one could be better than the other. For us, because I was effectively buying the Challenger, but leasing the Wrangler, Craig ended up being the better choice for the Challenger buy, and Leon ended up being the better choice for the Wrangler lease. As always, YMMV.

..an interesting read from a unique perspective of being able to make comparisons between 2 dealers. Thanks for sharing Kevin.

As is regards Craig--and mind you I lack the ability to make comparisons like you do as I only dealt with Craig--perhaps "on a relative scale between the two salesmen" Leon might be the "warmer (if not Craig the "colder") of the two, but my experience with him (Craig) and Koons was, from my perspective, extremely pleasant. I would totally recommend Koons and work with them again. I have no financial connection to them.

I completely note that you haven't said otherwise.

I completely appreciate how Leon may have been more proactive, but I never recall Craig not keeping me in the loop or failing to promptly get back to my email inquiries. I enjoyed the professional transaction at Koons, which was completely friendly, if not "syrupy," and that's because overly friendly salespeople make me feel like I'm about to get offered something that isn't in my best financial interest.

I not only respected, but did my best to facilitate the speedy processing of my sale (I like treating the people on the other side of a transaction with respect when they show it to me, as Koons/Craig did) knowing that such deep discounted type marketing is all about volume and sales incentive rebates from FCA, which dealers essential share with the customer in their pricing. My vehicle was delivered flawlessly and carefully explained to me by Craig in a non-rushed clear way, with opportunity for me to ask all the questions I wanted to, even if we didn't chat about the virtues of the "designated hitter rule in major league baseball," if you catch my metaphor.

Peace.

 

[TheRaven]

I completely appreciate how Leon may have been more proactive, but I never recall Craig not keeping me in the loop or failing to promptly get back to my email inquiries.

I completely agree. I tried my best to present my critique not as saying that Koons was "worse". Just different. Like I said, many will appreciate Craig's approach over Leon's because it gets you to the point faster. We had more fun in our time with Leon than with Craig, which we see as a positive, but we also wasted a lot more time with Leon than with Craig, which many will see as a negative.

 

[JimmyB]

I completely agree. I tried my best to present my critique not as saying that Koons was "worse". Just different. Like I said, many will appreciate Craig's approach over Leon's because it gets you to the point faster. We had more fun in our time with Leon than with Craig, which we see as a positive, but we also wasted a lot more time with Leon than with Craig, which many will see as a negative.

Dealing with both of these guys and actually getting much more traction with Craig but I haven't made my order/purchase just yet. I am curious about your trade-in experience and what they were offering. Was it competitive or bottom of the band trade-in value? Being from the same area there are some challenges to buying out of state and doing a trade-in not actually knowing what they are going to offer until you are already all in (at least from a deposit perspective). Just trying to find some reassurance here that this isn't a trade-in trap and I am going to get lowballed and disgusted with the whole process as usual.

 

[cgagnon99]

Dealing with both of these guys and actually getting much more traction with Craig but I haven't made my order/purchase just yet. I am curious about your trade-in experience and what they were offering. Was it competitive or bottom of the band trade-in value? Being from the same area there are some challenges to buying out of state and doing a trade-in not actually knowing what they are going to offer until you are already all in (at least from a deposit perspective). Just trying to find some reassurance here that this isn't a trade-in trap and I am going to get lowballed and disgusted with the whole process as usual.

Not OP, but I can speak for Criswell's trade in. I was going to trade my 2016 WRX in for my JLU, and Leon made me an offer 100% over email. I had to give him a few pictures and details, but it was painless. His offer was way more than CARMAX and Carvana, and fair even compared to the Private Party KBB.

He also said the price is honored until the JLU comes in, barring a dramatic change in miles or condition which was nice to know my baseline. I wound up selling it private party while I wait for my Jeep to come in, but can't imagine being any issues had I traded it.

For reference I did reach out to Craig at Koons and was told to us KBB as a reference until closer to the deal. Since I wound up ordering from Leon I didn't pursue it any further with Craig.

 

[TheRaven]

Dealing with both of these guys and actually getting much more traction with Craig but I haven't made my order/purchase just yet. I am curious about your trade-in experience and what they were offering. Was it competitive or bottom of the band trade-in value? Being from the same area there are some challenges to buying out of state and doing a trade-in not actually knowing what they are going to offer until you are already all in (at least from a deposit perspective). Just trying to find some reassurance here that this isn't a trade-in trap and I am going to get lowballed and disgusted with the whole process as usual.

Sorry can't help. I didn't trade anything in in either case.

I do have something to add though since that last comment - both dealerships have been a massive failure on the back end. Four weeks after we came home with the Jeep I got an email from Criswell telling me that they were sending ME the paperwork to title and register the Jeep. No explanation as to why or what I had to do, just that they were sending me everything. Of course I demanded a refund for my "title and registration" payment, and they did refund me. But it took almost two months to get the Jeep registered because of them. And then, right after I first heard from Criswell, I received my registration for the Challenger from Koons, only there was no plate included. I called to ask about the plate and the girl in the tags office says "that's for the plate from your trade"...and then I informed her that there was no trade. Silence. After much scrambling they realized that they transferred SOMEONE ELSE'S REGISTRATION to my Challenger! Now thats a new one I've never heard of. They ended up overnighting me a new tag for the Challenger and I imagine they had to overnight the other guy a new tag too. But wow...I was speechless...how does something like that happen? Incredible.

 

[JimmyB]

Not OP, but I can speak for Criswell's trade in. I was going to trade my 2016 WRX in for my JLU, and Leon made me an offer 100% over email. I had to give him a few pictures and details, but it was painless. His offer was way more than CARMAX and Carvana, and fair even compared to the Private Party KBB.

He also said the price is honored until the JLU comes in, barring a dramatic change in miles or condition which was nice to know my baseline. I wound up selling it private party while I wait for my Jeep to come in, but can't imagine being any issues had I traded it.

For reference I did reach out to Craig at Koons and was told to us KBB as a reference until closer to the deal. Since I wound up ordering from Leon I didn't pursue it any further with Craig.

Awesome thanks so much! I try not to overreact to any dealer responses too much because I am sure everyone is busy or getting pelted from the internet with soft inquiries like mine. I am definitely going to reconnect with Leon just to make sure I have equal deals to compare before making a final decision on where to buy.

Side note: I was using Carvana as the worst case scenario pricing so to hear that it was way more than them is super promising =)

 

[Jean Genie]

Dealing with both of these guys and actually getting much more traction with Craig but I haven't made my order/purchase just yet. I am curious about your trade-in experience and what they were offering. Was it competitive or bottom of the band trade-in value? Being from the same area there are some challenges to buying out of state and doing a trade-in not actually knowing what they are going to offer until you are already all in (at least from a deposit perspective). Just trying to find some reassurance here that this isn't a trade-in trap and I am going to get lowballed and disgusted with the whole process as usual.

I just bought from Criswell this week and also had to sell or trade my car that still had a lien on it. I sent some details to my salesman and got an estimated value but not an offer until they could see the car in person. I also got offers from Carmax and Carvana. Carvana was the best offer beating the dealer by $2,365 and Carmax by $765. I did everything online and they came to the house to pick up my car. The whole thing took less than an hour.
Also in Maryland all vehicle trade-ins are eligible for a tax credit on a new car purchase if it's done in the same transaction. If the dealer offer was competitive I would have gone that way for the credit.
One last thing about Carvana is they take 7-10 days to pay my lien holder. It wasn't a problem for me but is something to be aware of.

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