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BFG Ko2's suck that bad in rain?

Whaler27

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Here's the siping on Duratracs.
71%2BjpS-zw6L._AC_SL1001_.jpg


The susceptibility of a tire to hydroplaning is primarily a function of it's tread pattern. BFG All Terrains have had poor hydroplaning performance since they were first introduced in the 1970s, and since the overall tread pattern has changed little in the last 40+ years, they are still poor when it comes to hydroplaning.

In my experience the BFGs are pretty good in snow but poor on ice. On both surfaces the Duratracs are much, much better. The Duratracs are remarkably good on snow and ice, almost as good as a dedicated snow tire.

Where the BFGs shine are on the road where they're quiet and handle well. They are especially good in sandy terrain; the best all terrain in the sand that I've driven. I think that's at least partially due to their tread pattern which may hurt them for hydroplaning, but helps on soft ground. They're also durable and decent on rocks.
This mostly captures it.

I’ve had many sets of BFG ATs over the last 45 years and I live and work in the mountainous northwest. Rain, snow and mud are the rule here for about 7 months of the year.

I run KO2 on my pickup in the summer and studded Duratracs in the winter. I have run that combination on various pickups for about 25 years and it‘s the best combination I’ve found.

I was running 37” KO2s on the Jeep in the summer and studded Grabber ATXs in the winter (because the Duratracs don’t come in 17x37s). When we started running the Jeep on spring trails and using only the Raptor to take the grandkids skiing and sledding I pulled the studs from the ATXs and started running them year-round.

KO2s are fine on clean wet pavement. Where they aren’t great, and where most ATs aren’t great, is in their resistance to hydroplaning after hitting standing water at highway speeds. The KO2 tread pattern is too tight to evacuate large amounts of water quickly, so the tire will quickly float on a cushion of water, breaking contact with the pavement. Any tire will do that given enough water or enough speed. A lighter vehicle, larger tire surface area, higher speed, and deeper water all increase the risk, but I had 35s break loose under my 7000+ pound diesel one-tons twice at highway speeds when I hit small patches of standing water between 55 mph and 65 mph. My Jeep is 25% lighter, and I’m running even bigger tires, so I know better than to use that as a highway combination in heavy rain.

If you want a tire that’s more resistant to hydroplaning, pick one that has more space between the tread blocks. If you go with a tire like a Toyo MT, it will be less prone to hydroplane, and it will clear mud more readily, but it won’t have comparable traction on slick surfaces. All tires represent design trade-offs and compromises. If you’re not into mudding, and you’re not worried about hitting standing water over 40 mph, the KO2 is hard to beat.

The KO2 is also a very good snow tire. There are several good demonstation videos posted online showing cornering, accelerating, and braking in snow. The study and survey results linked on Tire Rack are consistent with those videos and my experience, but there’s always some internet guy who says a particular tire ”sucks” at this or that... I’ve learned to take internet posts (like this one) with a pound of salt.

I’ve found the demos/tests and data compilations to be more reliable sources of information. The truth is, most people are poorly trained, lousy drivers with limited experience, so it’s next to impossible to draw actionable conclusions from posts like this one.

It’s also important to remember that there are many different kinds of snow and ice conditions, just as there is a huge difference between the pavement after weeks of rain, as opposed to the pavement after the first rain of the season. In the northwest, it’s common to have 7 to 10 weeks with little or no rain during the summer. During the dry periods oils, rubbers, solvents, fuels, antifreeze, and other substances combine to create a film on the road surfaces. When the first rains come the water mingles with that film and makes the road surface slicker than snot. We always have a slew of crashes during the first 48 hours of fall rain. This week has been another reminder of that. Commercial vehicles, cars, and trucks of every flavor, on the interstate, state highways, and in town. It’s the same thing every year...

If the last 33 years are any indication, when the snow and ice arrive the city folks from warm climates will buy new 4-wheel drive vehicles, then they’ll continue tailgating at 20 mph over the speed limit as the crashes the crashes accumulate. when they crash they’ll claim their tires suck. :headbang:
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CorgiAttack

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In fact I think the ko2 will perform better on dry pavement, the tread pattern on the tire surface drains slightly less. That's why I've been telling my wife to always slow down in the rain, even though it rarely rains in LA
 

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This mostly captures it.

I’ve had many sets of BFG ATs over the last 45 years and I live and work in the mountainous northwest. Rain, snow and mud are the rule here for about 7 months of the year.

I run KO2 on my pickup in the summer and studded Duratracs in the winter. I have run that combination on various pickups for about 25 years and it‘s the best combination I’ve found.

I was running 37” KO2s on the Jeep in the summer and studded Grabber ATXs in the winter (because the Duratracs don’t come in 17x37s). When we started running the Jeep on spring trails and using only the Raptor to take the grandkids skiing and sledding I pulled the studs from the ATXs and started running them year-round.

KO2s are fine on clean wet pavement. Where they aren’t great, and where most ATs aren’t great, is in their resistance to hydroplaning after hitting standing water at highway speeds. The KO2 tread pattern is too tight to evacuate large amounts of water quickly, so the tire will quickly float on a cushion of water, breaking contact with the pavement. Any tire will do that given enough water or enough speed. A lighter vehicle, larger tire surface area, higher speed, and deeper water all increase the risk, but I had 35s break loose under my 7000+ pound diesel one-tons twice at highway speeds when I hit small patches of standing water between 55 mph and 65 mph. My Jeep is 25% lighter, and I’m running even bigger tires, so I know better than to use that as a highway combination in heavy rain.

If you want a tire that’s more resistant to hydroplaning, pick one that has more space between the tread blocks. If you go with a tire like a Toyo MT, it will be less prone to hydroplane, and it will clear mud more readily, but it won’t have comparable traction on slick surfaces. All tires represent design trade-offs and compromises. If you’re not into mudding, and you’re not worried about hitting standing water over 40 mph, the KO2 is hard to beat.

The KO2 is also a very good snow tire. There are several good demonstation videos posted online showing cornering, accelerating, and braking in snow. The study and survey results linked on Tire Rack are consistent with those videos and my experience, but there’s always some internet guy who says a particular tire ”sucks” at this or that... I’ve learned to take internet posts (like this one) with a pound of salt.

I’ve found the demos/tests and data compilations to be more reliable sources of information. The truth is, most people are poorly trained, lousy drivers with limited experience, so it’s next to impossible to draw actionable conclusions from posts like this one.

It’s also important to remember that there are many different kinds of snow and ice conditions, just as there is a huge difference between the pavement after weeks of rain, as opposed to the pavement after the first rain of the season. In the northwest, it’s common to have 7 to 10 weeks with little or no rain during the summer. During the dry periods oils, rubbers, solvents, fuels, antifreeze, and other substances combine to create a film on the road surfaces. When the first rains come the water mingles with that film and makes the road surface slicker than snot. We always have a slew of crashes during the first 48 hours of fall rain. This week has been another reminder of that. Commercial vehicles, cars, and trucks of every flavor, on the interstate, state highways, and in town. It’s the same thing every year...

If the last 33 years are any indication, when the snow and ice arrive the city folks from warm climates will buy new 4-wheel drive vehicles, then they’ll tailgate at 20 mph over the speed limit until the crashes start — and they they’ll claim their tires suck. :headbang:
Local police call SUV's ditch finders.

I was a ski instructor for 35 years teaching 6 days a week... K02's are good on the Rubi. Had Blizzak snow tires on the '19 JLU. I *think* that the K02's are as good in snow Ice? the Blizzaks on that Jeep weren't that good on ice Blizzaks or X-Ice on our car were better in my opinion. We ran the K02's last winter so I appreciate the comments here about other tire makes.





Dave

edit: My K02's are fine in the rain. But I don't enter wet corners accelerating. Haven't had issues with wet traction at 17,000 + kms. The '22 JLUR handles better than the '19 JLU did even after the steering box was changed on the '19.
 
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Jeepiner

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No tire is going to save you from reckless/inexperienced driving. For this reason, I drive like a granny in rainy/icy conditions.

I couldn't tell you how many times I've been passed up on the interstate by Billy Badass in adverse weather conditions, only to later see him turned over in a ditch.

Slow is steady. Steady is smooth. Smooth is fast.
 

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New to Jeeps. I fitted 315/70/17 BFG KO2's on my JLU sitting on 17x9" et 12 Method wheels. Running 30psi. The tires were used w/ only about 8K mls on them. Long story short, they are HORRID for wet traction. I'm fish tailing barely pressing the gas, and came to a light stop sliding... this doesn't seem normal. Or is it? Thanks

They are trash. I got rid of mine at 8k miles. I will never ever run them again.
 

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CarbonSteel

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Short answer = YES.

For the most part, they suck at everything EXCEPT for dry roads, noise, and wear--those things are where they excel.

A revised review that I did:


Vehicle = 2019 JLUR with 3.6L, ZF8, & 5.13 Gearing
Empty Weight = 5700 pounds
Lift = 3.5" MC Game Changer
Shocks = 2.5" Fox DSC
Wheels = Icon Alpha; 17x8.5 with 0 offset/4.75" backspace

Tire = BF Goodrich KO2 A/T
Size = 37x12.50x17
Load Range = C
Inflated diameter (Unloaded) = 35.75" (@31 PSI)
Inflated diameter (Loaded) = 35.375" (@31 PSI)
Tread Depth = 15/32" (0 miles)
Tread Depth = 12/32" (35K miles)
Maintenance = 5 tire rotation and balance every 5K miles (more frequent balancing needed as they wear)

Experience:

On-Road (Good--when new):


- They will not stay balanced as they wear (at least not for long), more and more weight is needed to balance them and they do not stay balanced as long as other tires have. Rebalancing has been needed between rotations (Discount Tire - Road Force)
- They begin to lose their grip in the rain and snow after about 20-25K miles. I had to drive from Denver to Colorado Springs during the last big snowstorm (speed was greatly reduced due to the conditions) and they are all over the place. They have a 3 peak snow rating, but as they wear effectiveness is reduced on the highway and they will slide in the rain much faster than other tires.
- They are quiet; probably the quietest tire I have had except for Michelin LTX AT2's on my trucks.

Off-road (Jack of all trades and master of none--except maybe powdery snow):

- They work reasonably well in the snow, I have gone through really deep powdery snow and they handled it just fine.
- Loose, deep dry sand will typically find you close to stuck more often than not, wet sand is managed reasonably well.
- Thick clay based mud will find you stuck and flexing your winch muscles. The tread design does not clear sticky mud and you will find they become 4 slicks with zero grip in short order.
- Watery mud is cleared reasonably well, but they are no match for a true M/T.
- They handle rocks "ok", but they will slip and drag you out of your line on side angled inclines and declines.

Noise = 10 (even after 35K miles)
Wear = 9 (even with the weight of my JLUR)
Ride = 6.5 (9 at first; 4 after 35K miles)
Dry = 9 (even after 35K miles)
Wet = 5.5 (7 new; 4 after 35K miles)
Snow = 6 (8 off-road--even after 35K miles; 4 on-road after 35K miles)
Mud = 3.5 (2 in clay/heavy mud; 5 in all other mud)
Sand = 6 (4 in deep dry sand; 8 in wet sand)
Trail = 6 (they can slip in rocks on inclines and declines)
Look = 5 (nothing aggressive or sexy here)
Overall = 6.6
Would I buy again? = No (as a jack of all trades and master of none (except noise and perhaps wear) they are too expensive for what you are getting)
 

tumblingdown

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Short answer = YES.

For the most part, they suck at everything EXCEPT for dry roads, noise, and wear--those things are where they excel.

A revised review that I did:


Vehicle = 2019 JLUR with 3.6L, ZF8, & 5.13 Gearing
Empty Weight = 5700 pounds
Lift = 3.5" MC Game Changer
Shocks = 2.5" Fox DSC
Wheels = Icon Alpha; 17x8.5 with 0 offset/4.75" backspace

Tire = BF Goodrich KO2 A/T
Size = 37x12.50x17
Load Range = C
Inflated diameter (Unloaded) = 35.75" (@31 PSI)
Inflated diameter (Loaded) = 35.375" (@31 PSI)
Tread Depth = 15/32" (0 miles)
Tread Depth = 12/32" (35K miles)
Maintenance = 5 tire rotation and balance every 5K miles (more frequent balancing needed as they wear)

Experience:

On-Road (Good--when new):


- They will not stay balanced as they wear (at least not for long), more and more weight is needed to balance them and they do not stay balanced as long as other tires have. Rebalancing has been needed between rotations (Discount Tire - Road Force)
- They begin to lose their grip in the rain and snow after about 20-25K miles. I had to drive from Denver to Colorado Springs during the last big snowstorm (speed was greatly reduced due to the conditions) and they are all over the place. They have a 3 peak snow rating, but as they wear effectiveness is reduced on the highway and they will slide in the rain much faster than other tires.
- They are quiet; probably the quietest tire I have had except for Michelin LTX AT2's on my trucks.

Off-road (Jack of all trades and master of none--except maybe powdery snow):

- They work reasonably well in the snow, I have gone through really deep powdery snow and they handled it just fine.
- Loose, deep dry sand will typically find you close to stuck more often than not, wet sand is managed reasonably well.
- Thick clay based mud will find you stuck and flexing your winch muscles. The tread design does not clear sticky mud and you will find they become 4 slicks with zero grip in short order.
- Watery mud is cleared reasonably well, but they are no match for a true M/T.
- They handle rocks "ok", but they will slip and drag you out of your line on side angled inclines and declines.

Noise = 10 (even after 35K miles)
Wear = 9 (even with the weight of my JLUR)
Ride = 6.5 (9 at first; 4 after 35K miles)
Dry = 9 (even after 35K miles)
Wet = 5.5 (7 new; 4 after 35K miles)
Snow = 6 (8 off-road--even after 35K miles; 4 on-road after 35K miles)
Mud = 3.5 (2 in clay/heavy mud; 5 in all other mud)
Sand = 6 (4 in deep dry sand; 8 in wet sand)
Trail = 6 (they can slip in rocks on inclines and declines)
Look = 5 (nothing aggressive or sexy here)
Overall = 6.6
Would I buy again? = No (as a jack of all trades and master of none (except noise and perhaps wear) they are too expensive for what you are getting)
I like numbers :)

Out of interest, what would you go for that balanced on-road/suburban/daily drive, with occasional (say monthly) off-roading trips?
 

CarbonSteel

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I like numbers :)
Subjective of course but based upon the majority of thoughts about KO2's, I am sure that I am within the general experiences that have been shared.
 

panda234

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Tire = BF Goodrich KO2 A/T

- They begin to lose their grip in the rain and snow after about 20-25K miles. I had to drive from Denver to Colorado Springs during the last big snowstorm (speed was greatly reduced due to the conditions) and they are all over the place. They have a 3 peak snow rating, but as they wear effectiveness is reduced on the highway and they will slide in the rain much faster than other tires.
- They are quiet; probably the quietest tire I have had except for Michelin LTX AT2's on my trucks.
Unlike the KO2s, the Goodyear Duratracs really hold up well on ice and snow as the tread wears down. My last set had just gotten down to the wear bars when I replaced them, and they still worked well on snow and ice, not as well as when they were new, but remarkably close. In this regard, the Duratracs are better than pretty much any tire I've run including dedicated snow tires like Blizzaks.

Also, Duratracs are very good in the wet with good grip, and I've never gotten them to hydroplane. I think you'd have to be driving in a torrential downpour, faster than you should due to vision limitations, before the Duratracs would hydroplane.
 

CarbonSteel

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Unlike the KO2s, the Goodyear Duratracs really hold up well on ice and snow as the tread wears down. My last set had just gotten down to the wear bars when I replaced them, and they still worked well on snow and ice, not as well as when they were new, but remarkably close. In this regard, the Duratracs are better than pretty much any tire I've run including dedicated snow tires like Blizzaks.

Also, Duratracs are very good in the wet with good grip, and I've never gotten them to hydroplane. I think you'd have to be driving in a torrential downpour, faster than you should due to vision limitations, before the Duratracs would hydroplane.
I would have gone with Duratracs, but I do not think they make a 37x12.5x17 (at least not when I was shopping).
 

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azjl#3

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This mostly captures it.

I’ve had many sets of BFG ATs over the last 45 years and I live and work in the mountainous northwest. Rain, snow and mud are the rule here for about 7 months of the year.

I run KO2 on my pickup in the summer and studded Duratracs in the winter. I have run that combination on various pickups for about 25 years and it‘s the best combination I’ve found.

I was running 37” KO2s on the Jeep in the summer and studded Grabber ATXs in the winter (because the Duratracs don’t come in 17x37s). When we started running the Jeep on spring trails and using only the Raptor to take the grandkids skiing and sledding I pulled the studs from the ATXs and started running them year-round.

KO2s are fine on clean wet pavement. Where they aren’t great, and where most ATs aren’t great, is in their resistance to hydroplaning after hitting standing water at highway speeds. The KO2 tread pattern is too tight to evacuate large amounts of water quickly, so the tire will quickly float on a cushion of water, breaking contact with the pavement. Any tire will do that given enough water or enough speed. A lighter vehicle, larger tire surface area, higher speed, and deeper water all increase the risk, but I had 35s break loose under my 7000+ pound diesel one-tons twice at highway speeds when I hit small patches of standing water between 55 mph and 65 mph. My Jeep is 25% lighter, and I’m running even bigger tires, so I know better than to use that as a highway combination in heavy rain.

If you want a tire that’s more resistant to hydroplaning, pick one that has more space between the tread blocks. If you go with a tire like a Toyo MT, it will be less prone to hydroplane, and it will clear mud more readily, but it won’t have comparable traction on slick surfaces. All tires represent design trade-offs and compromises. If you’re not into mudding, and you’re not worried about hitting standing water over 40 mph, the KO2 is hard to beat.

The KO2 is also a very good snow tire. There are several good demonstation videos posted online showing cornering, accelerating, and braking in snow. The study and survey results linked on Tire Rack are consistent with those videos and my experience, but there’s always some internet guy who says a particular tire ”sucks” at this or that... I’ve learned to take internet posts (like this one) with a pound of salt.

I’ve found the demos/tests and data compilations to be more reliable sources of information. The truth is, most people are poorly trained, lousy drivers with limited experience, so it’s next to impossible to draw actionable conclusions from posts like this one.

It’s also important to remember that there are many different kinds of snow and ice conditions, just as there is a huge difference between the pavement after weeks of rain, as opposed to the pavement after the first rain of the season. In the northwest, it’s common to have 7 to 10 weeks with little or no rain during the summer. During the dry periods oils, rubbers, solvents, fuels, antifreeze, and other substances combine to create a film on the road surfaces. When the first rains come the water mingles with that film and makes the road surface slicker than snot. We always have a slew of crashes during the first 48 hours of fall rain. This week has been another reminder of that. Commercial vehicles, cars, and trucks of every flavor, on the interstate, state highways, and in town. It’s the same thing every year...

If the last 33 years are any indication, when the snow and ice arrive the city folks from warm climates will buy new 4-wheel drive vehicles, then they’ll continue tailgating at 20 mph over the speed limit as the crashes the crashes accumulate. when they crash they’ll claim their tires suck. :headbang:
Good discussion.

Fun fact, hydroplaning really has only one factor, tire pressure, the more tire pressure, the higher the hydroplane speed.
Vp = 10.2 V P> where Vp = hydroplaning speed in miles per hour and p == tire inflation pressure in pounds per square inch

Therefore, weight or tire size, is not a factor. Tire design can be a factor, but has an impact much lower than tire pressure. Another reason I run 36-38 on the roads, vs 25 which is where I get a technical full tire contact with ground.
 

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KO2 are decent if you live out west where it’s dry.
Here in the northeast, they are trash. The trails get mud, roots, rocks, and they don’t grip or empty out. Regular driving is in rain, snow, slush, thunderstorms with heavy rains, deep cold, pretty much everything the KO2 sucks at.

They feel like a cheap Chinese tire or one with dry rot. I don’t know how they still sell them.
 

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I only had them on a Raptor and I thought they were terrible in rain, the falkin at3w are my AT tire of choice. Still searching for a favorite MT, Toyo is the front runner.
 

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I will be the first to admit that offroad when things are wet KO2s are not great but I havent had any issues on road.

It makes me assume people with this issue are turning sharp and powering through turns. I've had 3 different jeeps with KO2s from a TJ to a JL392 and never felt like I was out of control and sliding around.
Well, that’s not the case for me. Roads around me have a lot of twists and turns. In wet weather I drive approx 5 mph slower than the recommended speed limit. I’m a former firefighter and currently a safety officer in the military who is keenly aware of the dangers of driving aggressively in the rain.

The other day I was driving at approx 30 mph going around a slight bend and the jeep started to go sideways.

As others pointed out it could be tire pressure as it hasn’t been an issue in the past, and my tires are currently sitting at 35psi which is higher than I have typically run in them before. Tread is still good, picture is attached. Tire manufacturing date was 2021 so I’m ruling out that they are older and have hardened. Could be a fluke in my tires production.

I’m glad you don’t have the same issue, but don’t be so quick to judge others situations. I’m looking for tire recommendations, if you have one outside of the KO2 please share.

Jeep Wrangler JL BFG Ko2's suck that bad in rain? IMG_5374
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