Best CAI?

Solidaxle

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Just so we're all aware, sound is the main thing you gain with a cone filter. HP gains are negligible at best.
He is not wrong, I been following Mishimoto’s R&D very closely(who are very transparent with their progress) and they also stated that HP gains are minimal with dyno charts to back it up.
Again, why the condescending tone?
I actually think it’s quite slanderous and unfair to accuse manufacturers of lying about their results without offering any counter proof of your own. Manufacturers spend a lot of money on these aftermarket parts in the R&D department and if you don’t agree with their results you should offer your own results. It’s not fair and I think the manufactures could find that is libelous.
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Arterius2

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I actually think it’s quite slanderous and unfair to accuse manufacturers of lying about their results without offering any counter proof of your own. Manufacturers spend a lot of money on these aftermarket parts in the R&D department and if you don’t agree with their results you should offer your own results. It’s not fair and I think the manufactures could find that is libelous.
I just showed dyno chart and statement from another manufacturer, I am not slandering anyone, again I am just conveying what was found during Mishimoto’s research, are you accusing them of lying then?
4% gain from aFe IS negligible. Provided by you in your own screenshot.
You seem severely disillusioned if you believe anyone here has an “agenda” against of the manufactures here.
 

Solidaxle

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If it’s really true and not fake news that the cold air intake manufacturers are all making fake claims on their horsepower gains then that leaves them open for huge liability lawsuits
 

Arterius2

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If it’s really true and not fake news that the cold air intake manufacturers are all making fake claims on their horsepower gains then that leaves them open for huge liability lawsuits
Neglibible does not mean none, it means the gains are small that you won’t feel the difference, no one is lying. 12hp (4%) from a 285hp power engine is negligible. Calm the fuck down.

111.JPG
 

Schism75

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I installed a K&N series 64 strictly for “sound” to hear my shift points. I did not see an increase in mpg and do not feel like it’s quicker ,but again, “sound” is why I picked one up. The flat spot in the torque curve around 1500-2000 while in 2nd is brutal. Fit and finish looks nice and I like the drain holes in the box if water happens to pool up.
 

Arterius2

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Ok,
You convinced me , I just took my cold air intake off and threw in the trash. it runs much better. CAI what a waste of money only noise. they’re all lying ! there’s no horsepower gains. leave your jeep stock don’t believe the hype.
I also might takeoff my throttlebody spacer and throw it away if you guys think so? Stupid manufacture claims it gives you power but if you guys told me it doesn’t I’ll believe you and take it off right now.
Also, any input on my cat back exhaust ? It makes noise but again stupid lying manufacturer claims it makes power. Was it a waste also ? no power gains should I throw it away?
I guess this is why you are on most people's ignore list, welcome to mine as well! Enjoy your day!
 

AnnDee4444

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Again, you seem to back pedal when being call out on it.
I never said this was “statement”, I basically conveyed a finding that was directly from Mishimoto’s tedious R&D proceeds which many tend to trust. Also I never contested on the claim of hp increase, I simply implied that the power gain is minimal(let’s face it less than 4% gain IS minimal). Let’s pretend that claim in your photo is accurate, I don’t know what 12hp means to you, if there is any to be gained, you likely won’t ever feel the difference. Again, what’s with the condescending tone? Everyone is a retard except you right?

7846E2E0-E19B-49BF-A3E6-84CA599AF67A.jpeg


E4748ECE-36AC-4A8B-A097-FC962BD71115.jpeg
You do realize that this is the 3.6 forum... right?

Also, this indicates that the torque limiting could possibly only be in the 2.0:
Looking at the power graphs revealed a less exciting trend. We weren’t surprised to see that our intake made negligible power over the stock intake. Modern engines, and especially turbocharged engines, target a specified torque output at a given RPM. No matter how much more efficient you make the engine with intakes or exhausts, the computers will adjust fueling and boost parameters to make only that amount of torque. Without a tune, most modifications that improve engine efficiency don’t produce power. While we weren’t surprised by the lack of power gains, given our previous experience with modern turbocharged vehicles, we were surprised by how our intake affected peak power.

I'm not sure if the 3.6 ECU targets a specific torque output, but I would bet that it doesn't. There isn't as much of a need to limit torque on a N/A motor. Even if it does limit torque, it would probably be a maximum torque threshold, meaning a cold air intake could hit the maximum torque over a wider portion of the rev range.
 

Arterius2

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You do realize that this is the 3.6 forum... right?

Also, this indicates that the torque limiting could possibly only be in the 2.0:
Looking at the power graphs revealed a less exciting trend. We weren’t surprised to see that our intake made negligible power over the stock intake. Modern engines, and especially turbocharged engines, target a specified torque output at a given RPM. No matter how much more efficient you make the engine with intakes or exhausts, the computers will adjust fueling and boost parameters to make only that amount of torque. Without a tune, most modifications that improve engine efficiency don’t produce power. While we weren’t surprised by the lack of power gains, given our previous experience with modern turbocharged vehicles, we were surprised by how our intake affected peak power.

I'm not sure if the 3.6 ECU targets a specific torque output, but I would bet that it doesn't. There isn't as much of a need to limit torque on a N/A motor. Even if it does limit torque, it would probably be a maximum torque threshold, meaning a cold air intake could hit the maximum torque over a wider portion of the rev range.
Ok let’s talk just 3.6, according to the image, which is the air intake for 3.6
111.JPG

If we go by manufacture’s claim of 12hp, that is 4% increase, is that considered negligible? If torque limiting is only in the 2.0, why would we only gain 4% hp over a 36% airflow increase on the 3.6?

If we were to conduct a blind test, if one day I swap out your air box without you knowing and you gained 12hp, would you be able to tell the difference and be like wow! I really feel the power!

Not saying anyone is wrong here but I'm simply defending BigGreen's argument that "negligible" is not off base here.
Just so we're all aware, sound is the main thing you gain with a cone filter. HP gains are negligible at best.
 

AnnDee4444

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Ok let’s talk just 3.6, according to the image, which is the air intake for 3.6
111.JPG

If we go by manufacture’s claim of 12hp, that is 4% increase, is that considered negligible? If torque limiting is only in the 2.0, why would we only gain 4% hp over a 36% airflow increase on the 3.6?
Just because the intake flows 36% better doesn't mean it will make 36% more torque. Something else will be the limiting factor at a certain point. If I completely remove the intake tube, let's say that the flow is roughly 1000% better, but the 3.6 will still only take +/-3.6 liters of air per combustion cycle.

The other factor you aren't taking into consideration is that a true cold air intake will help keep the intake temperatures lower during more conditions than the OEM intake. This will not show up as a maximum torque/hp gain, but the motor will have more power in specific conditions. I'm speaking generally here because I don't know how this specific intake will perform.

BTW: 4% torque gains on a 3.6 intake is a lot more than the ~0% that Mishimoto got on the 2.0 intake, which is why I still don't believe the 3.6 is torque limited by the ECU. I'm not saying that other companies don't BS numbers, but there is no way to prove that without independent testing.


If we were to conduct a blind test, if one day I swap out your air box without you knowing and you gained 12hp, would you be able to tell the difference and be like wow! I really feel the power!
Yes, I probably would be able to tell the difference. I don't have a 3.6, but in other similarly powered cars I can tell the difference when the A/C is on, and that is roughly 12HP depending on which source you read. In N/A cars I can always tell the power difference between a cold day and hot day. A true cold air intake would make the hot day not as hot.

Would it 'wow' me? Probably not, it's still only a 4% gain. Is it negligible? That depends on your priorities and expectations.


To the OP: I would wait until Banks releases their intake. They do extensive research & development, and I highly recommend checking out their YouTube channel. https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/banks-power-ram-air-intake.34191/
 

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I'm not commenting specifically about whether this or that intake makes the power they claim and whether that gain is "worth it". However you should note the words "Up to" in the advertising. They are not guaranteeing you WILL make 12hp. They are saying you WILL NOT make OVER 12hp. That's like a nice little legal disclaimer, and many many products from many industries word their ads this way on purpose. Giving the benefit of the doubt to the company's honesty, they probably got a gain of 12hp in their testing... but what were the conditions? Were they near sea level where the air is most dense? In a nice cool shop with AC, or even outside in the dead of winter 10º below zero?

McDonalds says their Chicken McNuggets are made "with white meat chicken". They do not say "made ENTIRELY from white meat chicken".
 

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anotherWS6

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I'm not commenting specifically about whether this or that intake makes the power they claim and whether that gain is "worth it". However you should note the words "Up to" in the advertising. They are not guaranteeing you WILL make 12hp. They are saying you WILL NOT make OVER 12hp. That's like a nice little legal disclaimer, and many many products from many industries word their ads this way on purpose. Giving the benefit of the doubt to the company's honesty, they probably got a gain of 12hp in their testing... but what were the conditions? Were they near sea level where the air is most dense? In a nice cool shop with AC, or even outside in the dead of winter 10º below zero?

McDonalds says their Chicken McNuggets are made "with white meat chicken". They do not say "made ENTIRELY from white meat chicken".
No. Up to means AT SOME POINT ON THE DYNO GRAPH. It could have lost 50hp at every other fng point, but at SOME point it made 12hp more. Not a peak power increase of 12hp. Not an average power increase of 12hp. The peak power could have dropped,. The average hp could have dropped. You vehicle may be slower in general. But at some point it made 12hp more. Maybe it was at 1,100rpm, maybe it was at 6,400.
 

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No. Up to means AT SOME POINT ON THE DYNO GRAPH. It could have lost 50hp at every other fng point, but at SOME point it made 12hp more. Not a peak power increase of 12hp. Not an average power increase of 12hp. The peak power could have dropped,. The average hp could have dropped. You vehicle may be slower in general. But at some point it made 12hp more. Maybe it was at 1,100rpm, maybe it was at 6,400.
You are pointing out a different way that the claims could be dubious, and your claim is just as viable. I am pointing out how people can use specific words to say things in a way that sounds better than it is, without directly lying. The way they worded it, if you made only 6 additional HP what they said would still be true.
 

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If it’s really true and not fake news that the cold air intake manufacturers are all making fake claims on their horsepower gains then that leaves them open for huge liability lawsuits
Is this your first vehicle? That literally has been the practice as long back as I remember. OEM airboxes just simply aren’t as restrictive as they used to be.

You should probably do more homework and educate yourself before you blindly follow manufacturer claims and act condescending toward other members.
 
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