Battle for the soul of consumer vehicles

[Oncorhynchus]

Stellantis CEO makes a lot of sense in this interview with Yahoo Finance. He’s fundamentally decided that being a realist is the better strategy than being a visionary when it comes to being the head of a major auto maker. I probably will be looking to make a BEV my next car purchase (which won’t be for quite a few years) but that’s because I can afford it. I agree with Tavares that the foreseeable prices of BEVs puts them out of reach for too many families for many many years to come.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/...r-internal-combustion-business-150506236.html

Sponsored

 

[JROOO]

Seems like advertising, stock advertising, worthless discussion. What's the point of this?

Question for the BEV, do batteries freeze and if so, what is its affect on its life? Stupid jeep owner like myself would love to know.

 

[Hpc3]

It is idiotic to talk about 0% carbon emissions goals when you fvcking charge every BEV made by fossil fuels today. This is all horsecrap until we evolve to something other than fossil-powered electric transportation.

 

[Oncorhynchus]

It is idiotic to talk about 0% carbon emissions goals when you fvcking charge every BEV made by fossil fuels today. This is all horsecrap until we evolve to something other than fossil-powered electric transportation.

We don’t have to get to 0% carbon. A BEV has an efficiency such that approx 70% of the energy stored in the batteries end up driving the wheels. Even the most efficient ICE vehicle only converts about 30% of the energy of the fuel into propulsion.

Almost every BEV today gets some of the energy in its batteries from a fossil-fuel powered electrical generation plant. Depending on your utility company, a significant portion of your electricity may begenerated by hydro, wind, and solar. At a national level 20% of America’s electricity is generated by renewable sources and 19% from nuclear power according to DOE (https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3). A BEV can easily get about 130 mpge since it’s batteries are charged via a combination of renewables and nuclear and natural gas which all together provides greater efficiency per equivalent unit of fossil fuel consumed than the gasoline in an ICE vehicle.

It’s just basic math. Why the anger in your post?

 

[Oncorhynchus]

Seems like advertising, stock advertising, worthless discussion. What's the point of this?

Question for the BEV, do batteries freeze and if so, what is its affect on its life? Stupid jeep owner like myself would love to know.

The point is that the interview is in the finance section of Yahoo news. It’s about the capital markets and about the business of automobiles. I’d never buy a Tesla but I have to give credit to Musk for artificially driving up the market capitalization of his company to irrational levels and convincing speculative investors/fanboys to trigger a stampede on Tesla stock which enabled him to fund the establishment of a de novo major auto maker. That caused people like Ford CEO Farley to separate out his BEV division from his ICE division. Tavares claimed that this was more about financial engineering than automotive engineering.

Tavares is the head of a publicly traded company. Wrangler is a niche vehicle. If his bet goes wrong on the business side (the real economy) or if his bet goes badly in terms of the capital markets (the financial economy) that will negatively affect the destiny of the entire Jeep lineup.

As for cold weather, the range can drop 40% due to reduced electricity flow inside the battery and the need to heat the passenger cabin. But sub-freezing temperatures do not shorten the lifetime of the battery.

 

[Hpc3]

We don’t have to get to 0% carbon. A BEV has an efficiency such that approx 70% of the energy stored in the batteries end up driving the wheels. Even the most efficient ICE vehicle only converts about 30% of the energy of the fuel into propulsion.

Almost every BEV today gets some of the energy in its batteries from a fossil-fuel powered electrical generation plant. Depending on your utility company, a significant portion of your electricity may begenerated by hydro, wind, and solar. At a national level 20% of America’s electricity is generated by renewable sources and 19% from nuclear power according to DOE (https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3). A BEV can easily get about 130 mpge since it’s batteries are charged via a combination of renewables and nuclear and natural gas which all together provides greater efficiency per equivalent unit of fossil fuel consumed than the gasoline in an ICE vehicle.

It’s just basic math. Why the anger in your post?

Its not anger just frustration with the eventual ICE death based on the false premise of clean energy from BEV configurations. I haven't pulled current base load numbers (used to work in the power generation industry) but the core of the world's energy production is likely still ~70%+ fossil-based today because because of whatever regulations, limitations, greed, etc. that exists in the generation business. We don't utilize anything "clean" to any measurable extent (IE peak load generation is still combustion turbines in most US grid systems) and add to that all the net-new raw materials needed for BEVs and their costs to mine, produce and recycle and its far worse than anything gasoline powered today.

Now if we can get to fusion or some other form of less destructive portable generation platform I'm all ears. Maybe hydrogen/generation-based ICEs or other Tesla (Nicola) type energy sources will become options someday. And I like Tesla (Musk) and other electric car things if anything for their performance potential (drag racer/enthusiast here) but until we can charge them with something less destructive than the same coal/petroleum things that are used for ICEs I don't really see the point. Its just the next version of the same old equation, execept BEVs are even more toxic to produce/use. Maybe we can change the math someday.

 

[Oncorhynchus]

Its not anger just frustration with the eventual ICE death based on the false premise of clean energy from BEV configurations.

I agree with you. The predicted death of the ICE is overhyped. That is Tavares’ point. We’re nowhere near the tipping point yet.

Sponsored