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Ball joints came out! Is this an isolated case or a problem?

Jeepsterfreak

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Good morning
I never found any c clips, the inside was smooth and nothing on the ball joint
I wonder if anyone has a factory install manual that would show this.
I think he was referring to c clips being on the u-joint, not the ball joint.
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Yikes, they did not help you?
What I found with FCA is you have to go through about four to five layers of the front line to get a problem addressed.
The front line is designed to block and deny most claims. At lease that has been my experience
our service manager went to bat on my behalf for over a month with no positive result, by then insurance already approved the replacement of the jeep :(
 

ocrejects

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our service manager went to bat on my behalf for over a month with no positive result, by then insurance already approved the replacement of the jeep :(
The problem when you go through your insurance now becomes an accident (when there was no accident) and your insurance goes up. When it’s 100% a warranty issue. Imagine if this shit would’ve popped out while driving home on the highway. :(
 
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Again....Not the ball joint...the axle ujoints.
Lol
I was thinking the ball joints!
I don’t even remember looking at the axel joints come to think of it.
I was way to focused on how in the hell am I going to get this to where we can get him to a road.
 
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James

James

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our service manager went to bat on my behalf for over a month with no positive result, by then insurance already approved the replacement of the jeep :(
Mike, that sucks!
Now you have an insurance claim against you. Uggggg! I would be pissed!

We had a problem once with a Range Rover we just leased ( a month old). It would not start, they sent a car to pick me up to take me to the dealership to get a loaner and said a tow truck was on its way. I told them do not leave it in my parking lot overnight because they cannot lock it up, the next morning at 7 am the service manager called and said the tow company had my vehicle and will drop it off to them today. As I pulled into my office parking lot guess what was still there? Yep! Doors and hood opened! I had forgot my briefcase in the back seat and it was gone.
I called Range Rover North America to let them know they need to reimburse me for the briefcase, we went a few rounds, they kept saying they don’t have a system in place for something like this and I should just turn this into my insurance company. Why should my insurance company pay for their screw up and this cost me down the road? I than gave them in writing two choices, pay the loss or pay my attorney fees and the loss, gave them 48 hours to reply before I dump this on my attorneys desk. I’m finished wasting my time on this matter. They contacted me saying they were going to cut me a check, had me sign a release and overnighted me a check.
I can tell you the insurance on the new JLUR is way higher than all of my other vehicles! I can’t even imagine what they would hit me with after a claim.
 

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panda234

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I mentioned this set up in post #81. Thanks for providing the illustrations. It helps visualize the concept. The JK ball joints are “captured” by the “C” and the knuckle. It’s physically impossible for the entire ball joint assembly to slide out of the axle C, providing the castle nuts don’t come off and nothing breaks.

The JL in the other hand, those ball joint assemblies can slide out which is exactly what happened to the OP. We don’t know the cause. Did a broken u-joint cause the ball joints to dislodge or the other way around?

Also, regarding the castle nut being over torqued causing it to pull the ball joint from the “C”, I thought about that too. I think the taper in the ball joint shaft might prevent that from happening by preventing the knuckle to act like a ball joint press. If it wasn’t tapered, then it could most certainly put downward force on the ball joint assembly if over torqued. I’m not a mechanical engineer or a mechanic, so I could be completely wrong about everything.
The JL design for the way the ball joints mount into the axle 'C' concerns me. It completely relies on the press fit of the joints in the 'C' and the weight of the vehicle to hold the wheel assembly on to the axle. Normally this would be fine since a press fit should be very, very strong, and the weight of the vehicle is generally working to keep the joints in place so they shouldn't be able to work loose over time and stress. For the ball joints to pop out of the axle as they did in this situation either an enormous amount of pressure was exerted in the right direction to force them out of the axle, the ball joint or 'C' was defective, or the ball joints were not properly assembled to the 'C'.

I suppose it's not impossible for a breakage of an axle or u-joints to cause enough pressure to force the ball joints out of the 'C', weird things happen when stuff breaks, but it does seem a bit unlikely. The breakage would have had to generate enough pressure in the correct direction to pop the joints out. Of course, it's the weak point that fails first, and perhaps the press fit of the ball joints in the 'C' is the weak point of the assembly. I actually would have expected more parts breaking if this were the case however, with the ball joint or joints themselves breaking rather than pulling out of the 'C'. If that was a conscious choice on the part of the axle engineers, it seems like a poor choice to me.

Dealing with the realities of life and manufacturing, sometimes parts aren't made exactly right, and when it comes to a press fit like these ball joints, if either the ball joints or the axle 'C' are off by more than a couple of thousandths of an inch, something like this failure could occur due to the press fit not being tight enough. Hopefully, whoever, or whatever, is doing the assembly would notice that the ball joint went in too easy during assembly, but if the assembler doesn't catch it, something like the incident this thread is about could occur. Since James mentioned that the upper ball joint went in fairly easily with hand tools, this strikes me as the most likely possibility, although I think the bottom one should have still stayed in place unless it was a bit out of tolerance as well.

If the ball joints were not properly pressed into the 'C', this sort of failure could occur as well. Again, if whoever, or whatever, assembled the ball joints into the 'C' where they were not fully seated, the press fit may not have the proper strength, and could fall out as happened in this thread. This should be pretty obvious during assembly however, and would indicate a significant failure of the manufacturer's assembly and inspection processes.

With the JK there's no way both ball joints can pull out of the 'C' like happened in this incident, either a ball joint, the 'C', or the steering knuckle would break first. If broken u-joints or axle caused this failure, I'd rather have more broken parts to replace, than have any chance of a wheel assembly just coming disconnected from the axle as seems to have occurred here. It sounds like something else for the aftermarket to engineer a solution for; just make an upper ball joint that presses in from the top of the 'C' like in the JK, but fits the JL.
 

ocrejects

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Mike, that sucks!
Now you have an insurance claim against you. Uggggg! I would be pissed!

We had a problem once with a Range Rover we just leased ( a month old). It would not start, they sent a car to pick me up to take me to the dealership to get a loaner and said a tow truck was on its way. I told them do not leave it in my parking lot overnight because they cannot lock it up, the next morning at 7 am the service manager called and said the tow company had my vehicle and will drop it off to them today. As I pulled into my office parking lot guess what was still there? Yep! Doors and hood opened! I had forgot my briefcase in the back seat and it was gone.
I called Range Rover North America to let them know they need to reimburse me for the briefcase, we went a few rounds, they kept saying they don’t have a system in place for something like this and I should just turn this into my insurance company. Why should my insurance company pay for their screw up and this cost me down the road? I than gave them in writing two choices, pay the loss or pay my attorney fees and the loss, gave them 48 hours to reply before I dump this on my attorneys desk. I’m finished wasting my time on this matter. They contacted me saying they were going to cut me a check, had me sign a release and overnighted me a check.
I can tell you the insurance on the new JLUR is way higher than all of my other vehicles! I can’t even imagine what they would hit me with after a claim.
The JL design for the way the ball joints mount into the axle 'C' concerns me. It completely relies on the press fit of the joints in the 'C' and the weight of the vehicle to hold the wheel assembly on to the axle. Normally this would be fine since a press fit should be very, very strong, and the weight of the vehicle is generally working to keep the joints in place so they shouldn't be able to work loose over time and stress. For the ball joints to pop out of the axle as they did in this situation either an enormous amount of pressure was exerted in the right direction to force them out of the axle, the ball joint or 'C' was defective, or the ball joints were not properly assembled to the 'C'.

I suppose it's not impossible for a breakage of an axle or u-joints to cause enough pressure to force the ball joints out of the 'C', weird things happen when stuff breaks, but it does seem a bit unlikely. The breakage would have had to generate enough pressure in the correct direction to pop the joints out. Of course, it's the weak point that fails first, and perhaps the press fit of the ball joints in the 'C' is the weak point of the assembly. I actually would have expected more parts breaking if this were the case however, with the ball joint or joints themselves breaking rather than pulling out of the 'C'. If that was a conscious choice on the part of the axle engineers, it seems like a poor choice to me.

Dealing with the realities of life and manufacturing, sometimes parts aren't made exactly right, and when it comes to a press fit like these ball joints, if either the ball joints or the axle 'C' are off by more than a couple of thousandths of an inch, something like this failure could occur due to the press fit not being tight enough. Hopefully, whoever, or whatever, is doing the assembly would notice that the ball joint went in too easy during assembly, but if the assembler doesn't catch it, something like the incident this thread is about could occur. Since James mentioned that the upper ball joint went in fairly easily with hand tools, this strikes me as the most likely possibility, although I think the bottom one should have still stayed in place unless it was a bit out of tolerance as well.

If the ball joints were not properly pressed into the 'C', this sort of failure could occur as well. Again, if whoever, or whatever, assembled the ball joints into the 'C' where they were not fully seated, the press fit may not have the proper strength, and could fall out as happened in this thread. This should be pretty obvious during assembly however, and would indicate a significant failure of the manufacturer's assembly and inspection processes.

With the JK there's no way both ball joints can pull out of the 'C' like happened in this incident, either a ball joint, the 'C', or the steering knuckle would break first. If broken u-joints or axle caused this failure, I'd rather have more broken parts to replace, than have any chance of a wheel assembly just coming disconnected from the axle as seems to have occurred here. It sounds like something else for the aftermarket to engineer a solution for; just make an upper ball joint that presses in from the top of the 'C' like in the JK, but fits the JL.
Good morning everyone, just giving an update on my ball joints situation.

The dealer told me it’s going to cost $7900 to fix my Jeep that only 4456 miles on it. FCA supposedly denied the claim by looking at 3 pictures. The dealer text me the denial and gave me FCA’s 800 number to call them or file a claim. The dealer Jim trying call me to let me know the bad news. I called FCA immediately, filed a claim and got a claim number. This was over a week ago and no one has called me, even though I was told multiple times the case manager was going to contact me. When I called on Friday, case manager was nowhere to be found, the girl on the phone (Brittney) one of the individuals answering the phone said they were waiting on the dealerships to send him digital images. I immediately called the dealership and the they said that no case manager from FCA has requested anything from them. However, the service advisor told me that they were waiting on an engineer (he was supposed to be there last Thursday, no-show) to look at it and give them the OK for warranty work or not. I have no idea who this engineer is aware is coming from. The service advisor made it sound like it was there engineer. I told the service advisor don’t you think it be a good idea if I’m there? Why are you not communicating this to me?

So to sum things up, per Brittany at FCA, they are waiting for digital images from Kenny at the dealership which they’ve been in contact with supposedly. Kenny at the dealership said no one from FCA/case manager has requested anything from him. The dealership is waiting on an engineer that was a no show last Thursday, to come out and look at my jeep to give the OK or not OK for warranty work. I have no idea where this engineer is coming from but the service advisor made it sound like it was there engineer.

The worst part about this whole thing is I love the jeep. However, this is beyond frustrated.

My 2018 JLUR has been at the dealership for two weeks now collecting dust, with nobody wanting to do anything other than myself, how sad.
 
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Mike, that sucks!
Now you have an insurance claim against you. Uggggg! I would be pissed!

We had a problem once with a Range Rover we just leased ( a month old). It would not start, they sent a car to pick me up to take me to the dealership to get a loaner and said a tow truck was on its way. I told them do not leave it in my parking lot overnight because they cannot lock it up, the next morning at 7 am the service manager called and said the tow company had my vehicle and will drop it off to them today. As I pulled into my office parking lot guess what was still there? Yep! Doors and hood opened! I had forgot my briefcase in the back seat and it was gone.
I called Range Rover North America to let them know they need to reimburse me for the briefcase, we went a few rounds, they kept saying they don’t have a system in place for something like this and I should just turn this into my insurance company. Why should my insurance company pay for their screw up and this cost me down the road? I than gave them in writing two choices, pay the loss or pay my attorney fees and the loss, gave them 48 hours to reply before I dump this on my attorneys desk. I’m finished wasting my time on this matter. They contacted me saying they were going to cut me a check, had me sign a release and overnighted me a check.
I can tell you the insurance on the new JLUR is way higher than all of my other vehicles! I can’t even imagine what they would hit me with after a claim.
It did suck having my insurance go up for a little while, lucky for me i have 13 years of accident free driving under my belt so it wasnt terrible. I wish it was easier for all of us in regards to warranty stuff.
 
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James

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Hey folks here is a little update.
The dealership is now saying the axel tube housing is bent! Holly cow if the new Dana 44 can be bent going under 2 mph we all need to take not of this!
I’m going with the owner of the JL on Thursday and I’ll try to shoot video to post on here.
What has me very confused is how the axel tube is now bent.
Stay tuned!
 

jeremyjeep

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Hey folks here is a little update.
The dealership is now saying the axel tube housing is bent! Holly cow if the new Dana 44 can be bent going under 2 mph we all need to take not of this!
Hmmm, bent axel tube at 2 mph, body bolts snapping off when installing new rock rails, aluminum steering boxes locking up in cold weather, bad welds on the frame, steering stabilizer problems (per the new October Star case date code range), lighter weight / thinner track bar, finger tight ball joints, steering issues due to miscellaneous steering system part failures, etc., etc., etc. Source: JL Forum. Starting to see a pattern here. You'd think on a 'tough' off-road vehicle, that the core items (especially the frame) would be the last thing to fail, especially when it has never been taken off-road yet (several examples in the JL forum of this). Uconnect problems, sure, wouldn't be a surprise. Electrical issues, maybe. Backup camera fails, understandable since it is the first year. But on the foundation parts that are supposed to be beefier from one of the brands that has the most years of experience with making off-road capable vehicles? You'd think they would being going forward and higher on the durability scale on frames, steering components, suspension, etc., not backwards.

I wonder if the JL profit margin is higher than the JK because they used inferior quality parts to save money to increase profit (example - steel steering box on a JK, aluminum on a JL, the body bolts look like the bolts you pay $0.65 instead of the better bolts for $2.25 in the bins at Home Depot, etc.).

And yes, all vehicle brands are going to have some level of problems (Jeep is #22 on the list for 2018) but you wouldn't expect this type of rugged off-road capable vehicle to have these specific types of problems. It's like a bad x girlfriend you keep going back to. There something constantly drawing you back. lol Maybe it is the distraction of constant repairs on our Jeeps to distract us from going back to the bad x girlfriend? lol In the meantime, going to keep adding red stuff to it.
 
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ocrejects

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Hmmm, bent axel tube at 2 mph, body bolts snapping off when installing new rock rails, aluminum steering boxes locking up in cold weather, bad welds on the frame, steering stabilizer problems (per the new October Star case date code range), lighter weight / thinner track bar, finger tight ball joints, steering issues due to miscellaneous steering system part failures, etc., etc., etc. Source: JL Forum. Starting to see a pattern here. You'd think on a 'tough' off-road vehicle, that the core items (especially the frame) would be the last thing to fail, especially when it has never been taken off-road yet (several examples in the JL forum of this). Uconnect problems, sure, wouldn't be a surprise. Electrical issues, maybe. Backup camera fails, understandable since it is the first year. But on the foundation parts that are supposed to be beefier from one of the brands that has the most years of experience with making off-road capable vehicles? You'd think they would being going forward and higher on the durability scale on frames, steering components, suspension, etc., not backwards.

I wonder if the JL profit margin is higher than the JK because they used inferior quality parts to save money to increase profit (example - steel steering box on a JK, aluminum on a JL, the body bolts look like the bolts you pay $0.65 instead of the better bolts for $2.25 in the bins at Home Depot, etc.).

And yes, all vehicle brands are going to have some level of problems (Jeep is #22 on the list for 2018) but you wouldn't expect this type of rugged off-road capable vehicle to have these specific types of problems. It's like a bad x girlfriend you keep going back to. There something constantly drawing you back. lol Maybe it is the distraction of constant repairs on our Jeeps to distract us from going back to the bad x girlfriend? lol In the meantime, going to keep adding red stuff to it.
Other than the ex-girlfriend, well put! LOL The funny thing about this ball joint/U joints/now bet housing two is beyond me with a vehicle as 4000 miles on it and has not done any any serious offering like you see on YouTube, Moab, Colorado, hell Big bear in California has some pretty rough train and I havent even had the opportunity to do any of this real wheeling. So my question is, how do you bend a Dana 44 steel tub housing with zero proof of any kind of IMPAC! There is no markings on the housing there’s no scrapes, dings or dents, not even on the rim of the wheel, perfectly round. Now I’m no mechanic but I do have common sense, and the impact was so severe to bend that Dana 44 housing tube, but no damage to any components other than my ball joints coming out and my axle ujoints breaking. By the way my vehicle has been there for two weeks and no one told me that I had a bent housing until yesterday. I had asked for a list of what parts that were being replaced as well. Oh by the way, full list price as well but one discount.

I saved the best for last. The dealership told me that the claim was denied yesterday because an engineer had looked at pictures they sent him, really, that’s how we determine a situation like this without visiting and actually ooking at the damage for yourself?

As you well know I have made multiple calls to Jeep, I have a case number and a person assigned to it her name is Cecelia, I even have Jeep cares involved. I have never even heard from this person and Jeep never called me and Jeep cares claims that they been in contact with this person and she was supposed to call me within 24 hours will only hold this was two days ago I’ve heard nothing from nobody.

This is the worst customer service I have ever been involved in in my entire life. It’s almost like you’re forced to lawyer up and get channel 4 news involved just to get any attention or to have someone who cares call you back!

I’m not going to commit to something that did not happen and that I did not do! The dealership also told me just turned into your insurance, really?

I’m going to the dealership tomorrow to actually look at what they are talking about, They did not ask me to come , I told them I was coming down.

Lastly, what’s really funny is that the dealership was the last want to work on that left front driver-side. Matter of fact they worked on it twice! The first technician took my whole front end apart including my driveshaft, upper control arm, etc. This was because of Mopar’s defective bowed springs problem on the Mopar 2” lift! After he finally figured out how to put the isolator in with everything apart they had to use a comm a long on my driver side wrapping it around that left side Axel housings to put things back into place. I asked them when I saw that, what the hell are you doing putting a come along around my axle and they said it’s no big deal they had to do that or get things back in place. Anyway, week later I took it back to the dealership A week later because the upper isolators We’re not in correctly and my upper control arm ball was not even typing it was finger loose rattlin we’re not incorrectly and my upper control arm ball was not even typing it was finger loose rattling. I took it back to them in shop foreman worked on my vehicle it was only supposed to be there an hour and a half dropped off at 9 AM I did not get back till 5 PM that day. Between the time that they worked on my vehicle and my vehicle been damaged from whatever other than me, It had less than 280 miles on it. Let’s be clear I’m not saying that this is dumb down however, it sure is funny that this all happened on my driver side. Maybe it’s a combination of Mopar in the dealership I don’t know if they can make a decision based on pictures, I guess I can make my decision based on common sense.

Jeep Cares, you asked me to let you know if my case manager did not contact me within 24 hours. I am letting you know as of today, this is day three since your PM, my case manager has ever called.
 

jeremyjeep

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Other than the ex-girlfriend, well put! LOL The funny thing about this ball joint/U joints/now bet housing two is beyond me with a vehicle as 4000 miles on it and has not done any any serious offering like you see on YouTube, Moab, Colorado, hell Big bear in California has some pretty rough train and I havent even had the opportunity to do any of this real wheeling. So my question is, how do you bend a Dana 44 steel tub housing with zero proof of any kind of IMPAC! There is no markings on the housing there’s no scrapes, dings or dents, not even on the rim of the wheel, perfectly round. Now I’m no mechanic but I do have common sense, and the impact was so severe to bend that Dana 44 housing tube, but no damage to any components other than my ball joints coming out and my axle ujoints breaking. By the way my vehicle has been there for two weeks and no one told me that I had a bent housing until yesterday. I had asked for a list of what parts that were being replaced as well. Oh by the way, full list price as well but one discount.

I saved the best for last. The dealership told me that the claim was denied yesterday because an engineer had looked at pictures they sent him, really, that’s how we determine a situation like this without visiting and actually ooking at the damage for yourself?

As you well know I have made multiple calls to Jeep, I have a case number and a person assigned to it her name is Cecelia, I even have Jeep cares involved. I have never even heard from this person and Jeep never called me and Jeep cares claims that they been in contact with this person and she was supposed to call me within 24 hours will only hold this was two days ago I’ve heard nothing from nobody.

This is the worst customer service I have ever been involved in in my entire life. It’s almost like you’re forced to lawyer up and get channel 4 news involved just to get any attention or to have someone who cares call you back!

I’m not going to commit to something that did not happen and that I did not do! The dealership also told me just turned into your insurance, really?

I’m going to the dealership tomorrow to actually look at what they are talking about, They did not ask me to come , I told them I was coming down.

Lastly, what’s really funny is that the dealership was the last want to work on that left front driver-side. Matter of fact they worked on it twice! The first technician took my whole front end apart including my driveshaft, upper control arm, etc. This was because of Mopar’s defective bowed springs problem on the Mopar 2” lift! After he finally figured out how to put the isolator in with everything apart they had to use a comm a long on my driver side wrapping it around that left side Axel housings to put things back into place. I asked them when I saw that, what the hell are you doing putting a come along around my axle and they said it’s no big deal they had to do that or get things back in place. Anyway, week later I took it back to the dealership A week later because the upper isolators We’re not in correctly and my upper control arm ball was not even typing it was finger loose rattlin we’re not incorrectly and my upper control arm ball was not even typing it was finger loose rattling. I took it back to them in shop foreman worked on my vehicle it was only supposed to be there an hour and a half dropped off at 9 AM I did not get back till 5 PM that day. Between the time that they worked on my vehicle and my vehicle been damaged from whatever other than me, It had less than 280 miles on it. Let’s be clear I’m not saying that this is dumb down however, it sure is funny that this all happened on my driver side. Maybe it’s a combination of Mopar in the dealership I don’t know if they can make a decision based on pictures, I guess I can make my decision based on common sense.

Jeep Cares, you asked me to let you know if my case manager did not contact me within 24 hours. I am letting you know as of today, this is day three since your PM, my case manager has ever called.
You may have to resort to calling this guy at FCA Corp - https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...has-play-and-drifts.3691/page-145#post-436435
 
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ruskiroman

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Wow, what an ordeal. I can't imagine how frustrating this is for you @ocrejects.

This thread has a lot of good info and I learned a lot from it. I'm looking forward to more updates and hope you get the repairs resolved under warranty.
 

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What a joke this has turned into for you Rick. Sounlds like your taking it better than I would. I had a issue about 18 years ago with a new dodge truck that they denied to warranty. I was asked to leave the dealership and to not come back in handcuffs:(. Apparently TRAIL rated is just a bullshit line there selling but not backing up.
 
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jeremyjeep

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This is always an option to motivate the dealership / FCA. Just borrow the idea from this Land Rover customer. 26 second video... I saw someone do this with a Corvette years ago, but it was on a white poster board / sharpie. Senior management was outside the dealership watching the guy, trying to figure out what to do. This tactic was obviously scaring away customers, losing money.


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