Balanced Tires still bouncing/vibration?

[rayzjeep]

Anyone have an issue where a tire is showing it's balanced on the Hunter road force but it still bounces slightly causing vibration? I'm having this issue and yesterday had it confirmed by my local offroad shop after having the tires balanced 5 times at Discount. Offroad shop was able the 'balance' the tire with very little weight but the mechanic still could feel a vibration when he put his arm on the hood of the balancing machine. Anyone else experience this?

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[jludave]

Anyone else experience this?

Might have a bent/damaged or out-of-round wheel. Doesn't take much to throw off the balance.

 

[DOOKEY]

Have you looked at the tire when it is spinning on the balancer? If you get a vibration you should see it when it is spinning.

 

[rayzjeep]

Have you looked at the tire when it is spinning on the balancer? If you get a vibration you should see it when it is spinning.

Yeah...that's what the mechanic at the shop said....he could feel the vibration on the hood of the balancer but the tires were still 'showing' balanced...with only a couple oz. So does that mean the tire is bad? They're Yokohamas with low miles and only one trail run.

I just don't understand how it can be balanced and still have vibration.

And he checked the wheels....they're Trail Ready beadlocks...pretty decent quality as far as wheels go.

 

[DOOKEY]

Larry makes a great wheel but there is nothing wrong with a trust but verify mentality.

If the road force balance machine says legit and you can feel the hop in the machine something is up. I'd pull the tire off the wheel and dial indicate the runout on that one wheel. You can also spin the wheel on the balancer to see if it looks legit. If you verify the wheel is good then you only have 2 other options. Either the tire is bad or you have an assembly error.

What is the max inflation you've pumped into the tire before balancing?

Have you measured the bead thickness against the gap on the wheel?

 

[ODDs]

I had this happen on another vehicle. After I had Discount install Nitto Terra Graplers my vehicle had vibration at 70 mph. I had Discount rebalance them 3 times. I replaced the CV joints. I was about to give up and sell the vehicle when I decided to take it the dealer. They swapped the wheels and tires with a new one on the lot, and the vibration was gone. So they rebalanced my tires and put extra weights on the rear tires. That eliminated almost all vibration, although if I pay attention I can still feel it very slightly. But it is good enough.

I don't know if it was the Nittos or Discount, but I don't plan to use either again.

 

[rayzjeep]

Larry makes a great wheel but there is nothing wrong with a trust but verify mentality.

If the road force balance machine says legit and you can feel the hop in the machine something is up. I'd pull the tire off the wheel and dial indicate the runout on that one wheel. You can also spin the wheel on the balancer to see if it looks legit. If you verify the wheel is good then you only have 2 other options. Either the tire is bad or you have an assembly error.

What is the max inflation you've pumped into the tire before balancing?

Have you measured the bead thickness against the gap on the wheel?

Inflation during the most recent balance (yesterday) was around 32 psi....which is a little higher than I like to run. Usually when I brought them to discount to balance I'd have them at 28psi but the first time they balanced them they inflated them to like 40 something and I don't know if they did that before or after.

The bead thickness against the wheel gap is something I did not measure when mounting them. I guess I could give the ring spacers that Trail Ready sells a shot and see if that does anything.

They're load range D tires and the bead didn't appear to be too thick for the wheel.

 

[DOOKEY]

Inflation during the most recent balance (yesterday) was around 32 psi....which is a little higher than I like to run. Usually when I brought them to discount to balance I'd have them at 28psi but the first time they balanced them they inflated them to like 40 something and I don't know if they did that before or after.

The bead thickness against the wheel gap is something I did not measure when mounting them. I guess I could give the ring spacers that Trail Ready sells a shot and see if that does anything.

They're load range D tires and the bead didn't appear to be too thick for the wheel.

I like to over inflate the combo to make the tire bead seat properly. I've witnessed single bead locks and double bead locks be mounted incorrectly and the inside bead isn't concentric to the outside bead. Not saying this is your issue but the over inflation may help. Usually on a single bead lock the inner bead will fall into place properly and you have to work at getting it wrong so I'd say that is a small chance at being the problem.

I wouldn't do the bead spacers unless it is needed. I'm willing to bet that Larry will know if they are needed so it may be worth a phone call. If the gap in the wheel is too tight you can deform the bead and that can cause the tire to be off center.

Now that ODDs posted... I'd be inclined to go to a different tire store before I broke down anything and see if they can get it to balance without the shake. I'd still peak my head under the hood and see what's going on.

What size tire are you working with?

 

[rayzjeep]

It's a 37x12.5 Geolandar M/T G003 on a 17in rim.

After Discount tried to balance them 4 times, I broke the rear bead and tried ceramic balance beads after removing the stick on weights. This didn't change anything. I then broke them down completely vacuumed out the ceramic beads, rotated the tires on the rim to align the yellow dot with the valve stem and added airsoft bb's as I've done in the past with success. Still no change. Yesterday I took it to the off-road shop to have those bb's sucked out and have them try to balance with the stick on weights again. Still have the hop. Maybe I'll take them back to Discount...and see if they feel any vibe while it's in the road force. At least they'll do it for free.

 

[Jeep&dogs]

So if they are using the latest hunter machine which most of the discounts out by me have, the machine will read the lateral and radial run out of both the tire and the rim while it is spinning. The machine will show the high spot and low spot of the rim and tire and will tell them how to line them up for the least amount of wobble. It also has the ability to measure this on all 5 wheels and tires and tell them what tire to mount on what rim in what position to get the smoothest ride. The millions dollar question is if the guy behind the machine knows how to use it. Most don’t.

Funny thing is when I was chasing my wobble I had this done 6-7 times, in the end I brought them to a mom and pop shop with a traditional balancer and they actually balanced out better than when I had them road force balanced.

 

[rayzjeep]

So if they are using the latest hunter machine which most of the discounts out by me have, the machine will read the lateral and radial run out of both the tire and the rim while it is spinning. The machine will show the high spot and low spot of the rim and tire and will tell them how to line them up for the least amount of wobble. It also has the ability to measure this on all 5 wheels and tires and tell them what tire to mount on what rim in what position to get the smoothest ride. The millions dollar question is if the guy behind the machine knows how to use it. Most don’t.

Funny thing is when I was chasing my wobble I had this done 6-7 times, in the end I brought them to a mom and pop shop with a traditional balancer and they actually balanced out better than when I had them road force balanced.

Yeah I did the Discount balance thing about 4-5 times...this last time was to a local small shop and at least they told me the tire was still vibration some after it was considered 'balanced'. Going to see if Discount will give me some credit on new tires or something.

 

[rayzjeep]

Just an update in case any one is interested or experiencing the same issue. I guess running the Yokohama's at 25-28 PSI caused the outer portion of the tire to wear faster than the center tread pattern and this is what caused the shimmy. So, only solution was to run 35-37 PSI so that the center tread is sufficiently contacting. Ride isn't terrible but not nearly as soft as when I was running 28 PSI. Something to keep in mind if you want to run these tires. I think the Milestar Patagonia's have a similar issue where they have to be ran at over 30 PSI.

 

[Headbarcode]

Just an update in case any one is interested or experiencing the same issue. I guess running the Yokohama's at 25-28 PSI caused the outer portion of the tire to wear faster than the center tread pattern and this is what caused the shimmy. So, only solution was to run 35-37 PSI so that the center tread is sufficiently contacting. Ride isn't terrible but not nearly as soft as when I was running 28 PSI. Something to keep in mind if you want to run these tires. I think the Milestar Patagonia's have a similar issue where they have to be ran at over 30 PSI.

Yeah, the Milestar Patagonias are designed to have a slight side to side radius to its tread. Being a hybrid at/mt tire, this radius allows the outermost m/t lugs to lift off the road at street pressure but fully engage at offroad pressure. I run my 38x13.5 Pat's at 34-35psi on road.

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