bad camshaft and rocker arms

[Attaboy55]

I do not know where to stick this thread, so I stuck it here. This is informational however, and I am NO WAY a qualifed mechanic. Bought 2019 jeep Jl 2 door wrangler 3.6 in July 2019, and noticed noisy valves on passenger side. Took to dealership and said no problems found. Ok so under medium or hard acceleration , get pungent convertor smell, and check engine light came on. OBD says P219A, fuel /air problem, been intermittant, but was doing this since ownership, and of course not doing it the day I took to jeep dealer. so, symptoms rattle in rocker arm area, somewhat less gas mileage and smell. After review , I was contacted by service writer, and he said bad camshaft lobe, and they were ordering new camshaft, cam followers (rocker arms) , and other items. service advisor did not mention any other parts as being bad including phaser (position sensor). My question is what parts must accompany this new camshaft, and what parts should i insist to insure problem alleviated , what replacement parts should be replaced while they are in there. I assume they found bad lobe using Micropod 2 , and visual review. My question is what should i ask of service writer to insure problem is fixed and what additional parts should be installed

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[Hootbro]

Since it is warranty, they are going to replace what is actually broken and not anything that "could be" broken or suspect unless the repair data instructions tell them otherwise.

Also, "insisting" is not going to get you anything with the dealership as they are only going to replace what FCA has approved them for. Anything you want replaced over and above is going to come out of your pocket.

If me, my biggest concern is to make sure the oil and filter is changed after the repair to get the wear metals out. That should be part of the standard repair.

 

[Attaboy55]

I do not know where to stick this thread, so I stuck it here. This is informational however, and I am NO WAY a qualifed mechanic. Bought 2019 jeep Jl 2 door wrangler 3.6 in July 2019, and noticed noisy vales on passenger side. Took to dealership and said no problems found. Ok so under medium or hard acceleration , get pungent convertor smell, and check engine light came on. OBD says P219A, fuel /air problem, been intermittant, but was doing this since ownership, and of course not doing it the day I took to jeep dealer. so, symptoms rattle in rocker arm area, somewhat less gas mileage and smell. After review , I was contacted by service writer, and he said bad camshaft lobe, and they were ordering new camshaft, roller bearings etc. service advisor did not mention rocker arms or any other parts related , ( phaser). My question is what parts must accompany this new camshaft, and what parts should i insist to insure problem alleviated , what replacement parts should be replaced while they are in there. I assume they found bad lobe using Micropod 2 . My question is what should i ask of service writer to insure problem is fixed and what additional parts should be installed

P.S. P219A is DTC for fuel /air mixture issue ban

Since it is warranty, they are going to replace what is actually broken and not anything that "could be" broken or suspect unless the repair data instructions tell them otherwise.

Also, "insisting" is not going to get you anything with the dealership as they are only going to replace what FCA has approved them for. Anything you want replaced over and above is going to come out of your pocket.

If me, my biggest concern is to make sure the oil and filter is changed after the repair to get the wear metals out. That should be part of the standard repair.

Thank you, As you have indicated , and I have found out the approved fix is camshaft, cam followers, lifters, and I have requested the oil be changed already , so I should be in good shape, thank you
P.S. 2019 Jl 4000 miles with bad camshaft, disappointing, ......concerned of other issues which this has caused, and will the other three camshafts be destroyed by lifters and the cam followers, hard pill to swallow on something I have waited years to buy...My ONLY concern was P219A, thrown code was for cylinder 1, air/fuel issue , I only saw this code, maybe others stored, I have to assume this is their fix to issues found...

 

[Maverick909]

Oh man that’s a bummer you lost a cam shaft with a fresh motor. Glad your dealer is getting it squared away for you. I hope they get you in a loaner Jeep as well

 

[Jelllo]

I don't think Jeep dealerships work that way. Back in the old days they were able to replace whatever they wanted, but warranty costs skyrocketed. Today what happens is any warranty repair over a certain dollar amount they have to start a claim with the OEM. Then the OEM tells them what is approved to get the job done. Any work outside of this the dealer would have to pay for. The OEM does have regional reps that will review additional work, but it is not guaranteed that it will be paid.

 

[jkanser]

I'd HIGHLY suggest taking a close look at the current oil filter to determine how much metal shavings made their way through the oil system. If it looks like a glitter bomb, I'd start discussions on lemon law as it WILL have impacted your lower end bearings as well.

 

[DonBindas]

P.S. P219A is DTC for fuel /air mixture issue ban

Thank you, As you have indicated , and I have found out the approved fix is camshaft, cam followers, lifters, and I have requested the oil be changed already , so I should be in good shape, thank you
P.S. 2019 Jl 4000 miles with bad camshaft, disappointing, ......concerned of other issues which this has caused, and will the other three camshafts be destroyed by lifters and the cam followers, hard pill to swallow on something I have waited years to buy...My ONLY concern was P219A, thrown code was for cylinder 1, air/fuel issue , I only saw this code, maybe others stored, I have to assume this is their fix to issues found...

I'm glad that you submitted your issue, as my 2020 3.6 has a strange rattle when it starts up.

Something to keep in mind though, is that modern technology is making the pump up lifters with bigger drain holes, in-order-to get better drain off oil flow.

Where it gets weird is that newer Jeeps are using 0W/20 oil to reduce oil pump stress to save fuel, so noisy lifters can cause insufficient flow to the cylinders and can trip a P219A, fuel /air problem code.

Here are a few reasons for noisy lifters:

If an AFM lifter is mechanically collapsed/stuck, low compression will be found on that cylinder during an AFM compression test.

Along with a consistent valve train tick noise, SES light, DTC PO300 and engine misfires on the related cylinders.

These lifter concerns may be the result of internal locking pin damage, which may occur if the response time of an AFM lifter unlocking event is:

• Decreased due to low oil pressure
  Oil aeration
  Internal engine sludge
  VLOM (Valve Lifter Oil Manifold) wear
  Plastic lifter guide wear
  Lifter bore wear
  Cam lobe wear

 

[Attaboy55]

I'm glad that you submitted your issue, as my 2020 3.6 has a strange rattle when it starts up.

Something to keep in mind though, is that modern technology is making the pump up lifters with bigger drain holes, in-order-to get better drain off oil flow.

Where it gets weird is that newer Jeeps are using 0W/20 oil to reduce oil pump stress to save fuel, so noisy lifters can cause insufficient flow to the cylinders and can trip a P219A, fuel /air problem code.

Here are a few reasons for noisy lifters:

If an AFM lifter is mechanically collapsed/stuck, low compression will be found on that cylinder during an AFM compression test.

Along with a consistent valve train tick noise, SES light, DTC PO300 and engine misfires on the related cylinders.

These lifter concerns may be the result of internal locking pin damage, which may occur if the response time of an AFM lifter unlocking event is:

• Decreased due to low oil pressure
  Oil aeration
  Internal engine sludge
  VLOM (Valve Lifter Oil Manifold) wear
  Plastic lifter guide wear
  Lifter bore wear
  Cam lobe wear

Good info, engine NEVER ran hot, idled funny, or had low oil pressure( according to IMPROVED oil idiot light), nor was there any engine issue visible or audible, kinda strange huh ....only code was P219A Fuel air mixture bank 1 , cylinder 1...

 

[Hootbro]

Pentastar is not a AFM cylinder deactivation design engine.

 

[Attaboy55]

Pentastar is not a AFM cylinder

Pentastar is not a AFM cylinder deactivation design engine.

I have no idea WTF is wrong with it, i'm not sure they do either

 

[Attaboy55]

I am happy to report camshaft, cam followers and lifters were repaced by my Dealership, i bank 1 , and the minute I cranked it, i noticed a discernable difference. no metal and

P.S. P219A is DTC for fuel /air mixture issue ban

Thank you, As you have indicated , and I have found out the approved fix is camshaft, cam followers, lifters, and I have requested the oil be changed already , so I should be in good shape, thank you
P.S. 2019 Jl 4000 miles with bad camshaft, disappointing, ......concerned of other issues which this has caused, and will the other three camshafts be destroyed by lifters and the cam followers, hard pill to swallow on something I have waited years to buy...My ONLY concern was P219A, thrown code was for cylinder 1, air/fuel issue , I only saw this code, maybe others stored, I have to assume this is their fix to issues found...

I am happy to report , new camshaft, cam followers and lifter on bank 1 intake , took the tick out completely, cannot hear engine at all, no metal in oil, they changed it and so did I, sending a sample to Blackstone regardless. I strongly thank Jeep customer care, their assistance was outstanding !!!!!!

 

[Hootbro]

Keep us updated on the Blackstone oil analysis. I would not be surprised if wear metals are still elevated. Will take a few oil changes to get it all flushed out and back down to normal

 

[HeavyUser]

My exact issue to a T, with a pretty much similar solution to yours

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/loud-ticking-sound-at-idle-fixed.34498/

Edit: Page 4 of the thread has a copy of the repair order

 

[Attaboy55]

Pentastar is not a AFM cylinder deactivation design engine.

Keep us updated on the Blackstone oil analysis. I would not be surprised if wear metals are still elevated. Will take a few oil changes to get it all flushed out and back down to normal[/
As of now, I am pleased , found one particle on outside of filter, and none on in

Keep us updated on the Blackstone oil analysis. I would not be surprised if wear metals are still elevated. Will take a few oil changes to get it all flushed out and back down to normal

I would assume so, very very slight sludge, on magnetic drain plug, tore filter apart , no metal visible

 

[Attaboy55]

I am happy to report camshaft, cam followers and lifters were repaced by my Dealership, i bank 1 , and the minute I cranked it, i noticed a discernable difference. no metal and



I am happy to report , new camshaft, cam followers and lifter on bank 1 intake , took the tick out completely, cannot hear engine at all, no metal in oil, they changed it and so did I, sending a sample to Blackstone regardless. I strongly thank Jeep customer care, their assistance was outstanding !!!!!!

Well Christmas came and went, BUT I am still happy to report, cams, rocker arms , and lifters took care of P2019a problem, engine very quiet, power, and mileage great....PLUS a second oil change and inspection of metallic drain plug showed NO metal of any kind to naked eye. Filter was cut open a second time, absolutely no metal inside or out, only slight residue of cam prep grease ( I think , probably talkin out of my ass), but very pleased no OBD codes and no knocking or clicking due to cam follower noise......Thank you sweet baby Jesus ...Amen
P.S. I reasearched the heck out of this, so I can address most questions as a lay person, and in no way am I a mechanic , but do have some " walking around" sense, and can tell you what hoops i jumped through in hopes of making your journey less " bumpy"

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