Avoid the diesel?

[bruno747]

Yesterday I heard that engineering has confirmed that the cam gears are still pressed on like the Gen 2 engines. No keyway to prevent them from spinning. They did not address the #1 problem with those Gen 2 engines.

That's what I was afraid of. They didn't address the problems with this engine, but they did add new potential problem areas. Sigh...

Ya know the more I look other than the dude jabbering on about bulletproofing the ecodiesel I can't find anything more than suspicion that the cam gears are an issue.

Way more verified reports of soot and failed oil coolers leaking water causing the bottom end to grenade.

Heck there are more verified reports about bad machining leaving burs damaging things than this supposed cam disaster.

I think calling the cam gears the number 1 issue might be a bit extreme.

Now this Ford's that had pressed cams years ago that had something like a high 80s failure rate. That's something to be worries about.

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[bruno747]

Actually just did some poking around in GDE forums.

GDE states there is no cam gear slippage issue in the wild. If there is the number is incredibly small like not even close to statistically significant.

Digging further suggests the source of nearly all this cam gear slippage claim is the one rambling YouTube video and one. Yes ONE shop in Utah that offers a $2k service to lock the cam gear via some undisclosed method.

So let's look at this objectively. Nary a single verifiable report with photos or Chrysler case to back it up. Reports if followed all originate back to Shawn and his rambling YouTube video. The only company actively claiming it's a genuine issue is also the only company offering a fix.

I do believe I am taking the cam gear issue off my list of potential problems.

 

[WXman]

Well let's put the doubt to rest then and read what dealers, insiders, and owners have to say:

https://www.allpar.com/forums/threa...anecdotal-and-reviews.171433/#post-1084959507

The Gen 2 engines were dying at an alarming rate, and the cam issue was a major culprit. You guys go ahead and be our guinea pigs. I'm not touching one of those with a ten foot pole. Especially after that thread last week which showed that it would cost $1,000 annually to own the EcoDiesel over the Pentastar.

 

[JLURD]

Well let's put the doubt to rest then and read what dealers, insiders, and owners have to say:

https://www.allpar.com/forums/threa...anecdotal-and-reviews.171433/#post-1084959507

The Gen 2 engines were dying at an alarming rate, and the cam issue was a major culprit. You guys go ahead and be our guinea pigs. I'm not touching one of those with a ten foot pole. Especially after that thread last week which showed that it would cost $1,000 annually to own the EcoDiesel over the Pentastar.

Maybe if you live in a market where diesel is $0.50/gallon more than 87.

 

[bruno747]

Well let's put the doubt to rest then and read what dealers, insiders, and owners have to say:

https://www.allpar.com/forums/threa...anecdotal-and-reviews.171433/#post-1084959507

The Gen 2 engines were dying at an alarming rate, and the cam issue was a major culprit. You guys go ahead and be our guinea pigs. I'm not touching one of those with a ten foot pole. Especially after that thread last week which showed that it would cost $1,000 annually to own the EcoDiesel over the Pentastar.

I was an owner of a Ram 1500 ecodiesel just FYI. Loved the engine. Would still have it if I drove enough to properly maintain it. 2 miles to work isn't enough to get the whole system up to temperature.

I agree the early ram engines were dying at a high rate. But based on everything I have found, there might be enough actual cam failures to count on one hand with most having no real documentation just suspicion. At least no documentation has ever been posted online.

Anyway, I dug through all 12 pages of the thread you quoted and guess what? Nothing related to cam gears causing failure except someone widly speculating that the cam gear is an actual issue and one comment of an actual potential cam gear failure was third party from someone in a service department that wasn't involved with the failure or repair in question, didn't bother to ask the tech that actually worked on it, but suspects it might have been a cam gear issue cause obviously that's the only failure this engine ever has so why else would it be in the service department. Everything else was other persons feeding on the initial wild speculation.

This is what I am talking about. I have yet to find even one single verifiable discussion surrounding a ecodiesel failure that was related to the cam gears at all beyond the youtube video which I take with a grain of salt because he was associated with the only company offering a fix. If they were anywhere near as common as the bottom end failures we would be seeing dozens of threads on each diesel forum. Instead all we ever get about the supposed cam gear issue is a bunch of people that refer back to the original babbling youtube video and the associated company in utah claiming its a massive issue yet is the only singular company offering a fix. Again, if a massive issue there would be more than one company offering a fix. The other common story we see is someone who knows someone who heard from the dealer two states over that a customer who bought their truck there had a cam gear failure but took it to another dealership to have it repaired.

 

[IV.f]

Ya know the more I look other than the dude jabbering on about bulletproofing the ecodiesel I can't find anything more than suspicion that the cam gears are an issue.

Way more verified reports of soot and failed oil coolers leaking water causing the bottom end to grenade.

Heck there are more verified reports about bad machining leaving burs damaging things than this supposed cam disaster.

I think calling the cam gears the number 1 issue might be a bit extreme.

Now this Ford's that had pressed cams years ago that had something like a high 80s failure rate. That's something to be worries about.

This.... there are to many inept people out there on diesels, engineering, and research. The 1 issue, with the 1 YouTube channel and the 1 company who is the only one producing a “fix” to this “issue” — is the same ‘1’ person. There is a saying about a duck - if it walks like one, talks like one, looks like one... must be a duck.

If you are worried about anything it would be the oil cooler... it spits out metal shears.

also wanted to stay hush hush on this so the demand would be low and I can get discount/rebate.

 

[Papi4baby]

Prior ram eco owner here.

Got rid of mine around 25k miles. At around 22k the ERG cooler gave up, did some research and is a know issue. FYI the warranty on the ERG is only 24K miles.

Good luck to you all, I did love it. But just crazy that they are not reliable like old diesels used to be.

 

[JLURD]

Prior ram eco owner here.

Got rid of mine around 25k miles. At around 22k the ERG cooler gave up, did some research and is a know issue. FYI the warranty on the ERG is only 24K miles.

Good luck to you all, I did love it. But just crazy that they are not reliable like old diesels used to be.

I’m of the opinion that if the feds don’t care to mandate longer warranty periods on EGRs and DPFs, and manufacturers choose not to, then owners shouldn’t be held liable if those components just happen to never work again after the date of failure.

 

[GARRIGA]

I’m going to thoroughly research the warranty and if the manufacturer isn’t standing behind it than I’m likely not either. Really wanted a diesel. So practical on so many levels but this may no longer make sense long run.

 

[WXman]

Is this a joke? We’re talking about 260lb-ft of torque at 4400rpm in the 3.6 and 480lb-ft of torque at 1600rpm in the 3.0. Name any odds and any wager, if you think the 3.6 stands a chance at any altitude.

It's already been proven via video that the 3.6L is faster than the 2.0L in 0-60 and 40-60 acceleration.

I'd bet a donut that the 3.6L would destroy the EcoDiesel in a drag race. 1) It's got more horsepower. 2) It's 450 lbs. lighter.

Have you guys researched how much it costs to replace a Bosch CP.4 diesel fuel injection system? Or to do a full top end repair after a cam sprocket spins free (which HAS already happened to lots of folks)? What about the turbo? DEF injection pump? Fuel injectors? Hell, even the routine oil and filter changes are 4x the cost. Diesel is $0.40/gallon more expensive on average across the nation per AAA. Diesel is only found at 55% of fuel stations across the nation per AAA.

You're paying more at purchase, more everytime you start the engine, more for maintenance, and more for future repairs for a slower Jeep. Yes, it may pull a trailer better. Are all the trade-offs worth it?

*I've owned two factory diesel Jeeps before, one was GDE tuned. So I'm not a hater. I'm just a realist.

 

[GtX]

Are all the trade-offs worth it?.

As far as I'm concerned, yes.

 

[JLURD]

It's already been proven via video that the 3.6L is faster than the 2.0L in 0-60 and 40-60 acceleration.

I'd bet a donut that the 3.6L would destroy the EcoDiesel in a drag race. 1) It's got more horsepower. 2) It's 450 lbs. lighter.

Have you guys researched how much it costs to replace a Bosch CP.4 diesel fuel injection system? Or to do a full top end repair after a cam sprocket spins free (which HAS already happened to lots of folks)? What about the turbo? DEF injection pump? Fuel injectors? Hell, even the routine oil and filter changes are 4x the cost. Diesel is $0.40/gallon more expensive on average across the nation per AAA. Diesel is only found at 55% of fuel stations across the nation per AAA.

You're paying more at purchase, more everytime you start the engine, more for maintenance, and more for future repairs for a slower Jeep. Yes, it may pull a trailer better. Are all the trade-offs worth it?

*I've owned two factory diesel Jeeps before, one was GDE tuned. So I'm not a hater. I'm just a realist.

And C&D already ran the 0-60 showing the 3.0 is quicker than the 3.6...by 1-2 tenths. The 2.0 beat the 3.0 by about the same. Regarding drivetrain reliability, that topic has been beaten to death here too...we’ll see. Not one single gen3 3.0 has seen customer miles yet so who knows. That said, the actual number of gen1 and gen2 cam sprocket issues seems vastly less than forum commandos have postulated. I also do my own diesel oil/filter changes for less than 2x the equivalent gas engine and live in a place where diesel costs less than 87. Yea my DPF is eventually going to clog...then it will be thrown in the trash. So yea, the equations make a lot of sense for my intended use and region of use. But rest assured, if that drivetrain turns out to suck, I’ll be the first one on this forum squawking about it for the world to see.

 

[VABarn]

I'm sorry. I just don't get it. This isn't (insert car that gets <3 sec to 0-60) forum. Who cares that a Jeep Wrangler, whatever the engine is, doesnt do 0-60 in X seconds. This isn't a muscle/sports car. Who... cares?????? A Wrangler is NOT about that life... Oh, and guess what? They aren't about OMG, I can get 40 mpg cause I have a Prius, either...

 

[JLURD]

I'm sorry. I just don't get it. This isn't (insert car that gets <3 sec to 0-60) forum. Who cares that a Jeep Wrangler, whatever the engine is, doesnt do 0-60 in X seconds. This isn't a muscle/sports car. Who... cares?????? A Wrangler is NOT about that life... Oh, and guess what? They aren't about OMG, I can get 40 mpg cause I have a Prius, either...

Fuel range makes a big difference to those of us who have long-distance overland uses in mind. Absolute 0-60 times aren’t as important as ensuring any given platform isn’t remarkably slower than another. Safely merging into traffic is still a consideration of 99% of wrangler owners.

 

[VABarn]

Honestly, I have never done an long-distance overland, so I can't speak to that. I was just basing that comment on the EPA's numbers that the worst Wrangler can do 100 miles with 5.3 gallons. So, that's what? ~300 miles? Seems pretty decent to me. Lol, gets a helluva lot better mpg than my 79 CJ-5.
I don't disagree about safely merging into traffic. But comments like
"I'd bet a donut that the 3.6L would destroy the EcoDiesel in a drag race. 1) It's got more horsepower. 2) It's 450 lbs. lighter."
Doesn't make sense on a Wrangler forum. On a Mustang/Camaro forum? Absolutely. Then again... to each their own.

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