Avoid the diesel?

OP

GARRIGA

Well-Known Member
First Name
Alejandro
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
688
Reaction score
395
Location
South Florida
Vehicle(s)
Dodge Durango RT
Occupation
Finance
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #61
You guys are talking about electricity as if it at any significance to the launch of the diesel. :)
Probably because we’ve waited so long for a diesel that by the time it comes we’ll all be on solar. :(



Advertisement



 

JLURD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2017
Messages
1,275
Reaction score
1,515
Location
Alaska
Vehicle(s)
2018 Compass Latitude 6MT, 2020 JLUR 3.0
Just because your neighbor wants to live in polluted air doesn’t mean you do. Plus others change because others have. Be a leader. Not a follower. ;)
Do you realize after the scientific community developed irrefutable proof that chlorofluorocarbons were depleting the ozone and the international community agreed to ban their industrial use worldwide the Chinese continue to produce the stuff by the metric ton? You will never get proof as clear-cut as CFCs regarding vehicular pollutants, yet you think being a “leader” somehow nullifies the economic incentives in developing countries ignoring the rules. That’s rich.
 
OP

GARRIGA

Well-Known Member
First Name
Alejandro
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
688
Reaction score
395
Location
South Florida
Vehicle(s)
Dodge Durango RT
Occupation
Finance
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #63
Do you realize after the scientific community developed irrefutable proof that chlorofluorocarbons were depleting the ozone and the international community agreed to ban their industrial use worldwide the Chinese continue to produce the stuff by the metric ton? You will never get proof as clear-cut as CFCs regarding vehicular pollutants, yet you think being a “leader” somehow nullifies the economic incentives in developing countries ignoring the rules. That’s rich.
Just because someone else doesn’t follow the rules doesn’t mean we shouldn’t.

Plus China is actually moving quickly to renewable resources. I don’t think the China of tomorrow is the China of yesterday.
 

JLURD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2017
Messages
1,275
Reaction score
1,515
Location
Alaska
Vehicle(s)
2018 Compass Latitude 6MT, 2020 JLUR 3.0
Just because someone else doesn’t follow the rules doesn’t mean we shouldn’t.

Plus China is actually moving quickly to renewable resources. I don’t think the China of tomorrow is the China of yesterday.
They are literally manufacturing tons of CFCs as you type. If there is an economic advantage to be had, they have and will screw the rest of the world to get it.
 

LincolnSixAlpha

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Oct 26, 2018
Messages
351
Reaction score
254
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2018 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon
Vehicle Showcase
1
Does this guy have valid points? Is he possibly relying too much on the earliest versions and not accounting for corrections? I recall the Pentastar had early problems that took three years or so to resolve and now considered by many bullet proof. Perhaps the newest ED will follow the same path.

I didn't watch it, but I can for sure tell you that from my past research into diesel, that they are a no-go for me. I simply cannot justify the added expenses of regular maintenance coupled with potential long term reliability issues.

Few things to consider which have probably already been mentioned here:

Modern diesel use all sorts of EGR related equipment, including cooled exhaust manifolds, Particulate filters (DPF), Urea AKA cat piss, or blue juice and what not to control exhaust emissions. This in itself presents a big problem with long term reliability, just no two ways about it.

The diesel that FCA uses is based on VM Motori engines, which is an Italian Diesel engine manufacturer. While they do seem to make some good engines and have won awards, I believe that there's a fault, of some design in the execution or building of their engines as done by Chrysler, and GM for that fact. There's a large tradeoff of ownership by these two companies with VM Motori, and I do know for a fact that the 3.0-liter engine that FCA uses (Wrangler, and RAM 1500, etc) is in fact of VM Motori design. However, do a little googling on that engine to see what trouble's it's had for FCA. GM does not use the 3.0 liter from VM Motori, but rather of their own design, or part thereof out of Korea with their 2.0 Diesel being used in the Colorado/Canyon trucks here in the US.

Back to my comments, I'm actually looking for a used Sprinter VAN for conversion purposes, and you can guess that the best models to have are those before 2008, in which that is the first year the US required all of the emissions plumbing to be installed. So goes to reason that -- buy a diesel -- expect higher maintenance.

Buyer beware.
 

Dakster

Member
First Name
Dak
Joined
Jun 24, 2019
Messages
13
Reaction score
13
Location
Alaska
Vehicle(s)
Ford F350, Chevy Trax
I didn't watch it, but I can for sure tell you that from my past research into diesel, that they are a no-go for me. I simply cannot justify the added expenses of regular maintenance coupled with potential long term reliability issues.

Few things to consider which have probably already been mentioned here:

Modern diesel use all sorts of EGR related equipment, including cooled exhaust manifolds, Particulate filters (DPF), Urea AKA cat piss, or blue juice and what not to control exhaust emissions. This in itself presents a big problem with long term reliability, just no two ways about it.

The diesel that FCA uses is based on VM Motori engines, which is an Italian Diesel engine manufacturer. While they do seem to make some good engines and have won awards, I believe that there's a fault, of some design in the execution or building of their engines as done by Chrysler, and GM for that fact. There's a large tradeoff of ownership by these two companies with VM Motori, and I do know for a fact that the 3.0-liter engine that FCA uses (Wrangler, and RAM 1500, etc) is in fact of VM Motori design. However, do a little googling on that engine to see what trouble's it's had for FCA. GM does not use the 3.0 liter from VM Motori, but rather of their own design, or part thereof out of Korea with their 2.0 Diesel being used in the Colorado/Canyon trucks here in the US.

Back to my comments, I'm actually looking for a used Sprinter VAN for conversion purposes, and you can guess that the best models to have are those before 2008, in which that is the first year the US required all of the emissions plumbing to be installed. So goes to reason that -- buy a diesel -- expect higher maintenance.

Buyer beware.
Yep. Diesel is a trade off. No longer do you have the days of way cheaper diesel fuel and the same maintenance you have with a gas motor. The greater torque, generally greater towing capacity (Canyon/Colorado diesel being an exception) and better mileage for a longer range are what you get. I ilke them, but I get it that most don't. I too like the pre-2007 (or 2008 for FCA) diesels without DPFs and I want to say pre-2011 are the next best as those won't use UREA or DEF.

Honestly until recently, I was totally against an FCA light duty diesel because of all the issues the Ram EcoDiesel has had - but I am encouraged in reading about the upgrades/updates that they did for 2020. It took Ford about 7 years to finally come out with a decent heavy duty diesel (the 6.7) after the 6.0 and 6.4 International sourced ones that were extremely problematic, so I am hoping FCA has the same luck with this revised 3.0 diesel as they do with their I-6 Cummins in the HD Rams.

I could be wrong, but I don't think too many of us are looking at or own a Wrangler for their MPG and low cost of ownership. More of a smiles per mile thing. Smiles per mile can also translate to, I don't have to fill up as often too. Of course we've all seen diesel vehicles get lousy mileage, so it remains to be seen if there is a diesel advantage in the Wrangler or not. FWIW, I don't like Ford or GMs small diesel motors either. I drove a Colorado Diesel and a Ford F150 diesel... I'll take the gas motors over the diesel in those.
 

LincolnSixAlpha

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Oct 26, 2018
Messages
351
Reaction score
254
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2018 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon
Vehicle Showcase
1
Yep. Diesel is a trade off. No longer do you have the days of way cheaper diesel fuel and the same maintenance you have with a gas motor. The greater torque, generally greater towing capacity (Canyon/Colorado diesel being an exception) and better mileage for a longer range are what you get. I ilke them, but I get it that most don't. I too like the pre-2007 (or 2008 for FCA) diesels without DPFs and I want to say pre-2011 are the next best as those won't use UREA or DEF.

Honestly until recently, I was totally against an FCA light duty diesel because of all the issues the Ram EcoDiesel has had - but I am encouraged in reading about the upgrades/updates that they did for 2020. It took Ford about 7 years to finally come out with a decent heavy duty diesel (the 6.7) after the 6.0 and 6.4 International sourced ones that were extremely problematic, so I am hoping FCA has the same luck with this revised 3.0 diesel as they do with their I-6 Cummins in the HD Rams.

I could be wrong, but I don't think too many of us are looking at or own a Wrangler for their MPG and low cost of ownership. More of a smiles per mile thing. Smiles per mile can also translate to, I don't have to fill up as often too. Of course we've all seen diesel vehicles get lousy mileage, so it remains to be seen if there is a diesel advantage in the Wrangler or not. FWIW, I don't like Ford or GMs small diesel motors either. I drove a Colorado Diesel and a Ford F150 diesel... I'll take the gas motors over the diesel in those.

In fact your comments regarding the Ford heavy-duty diesel are spot on as I was looking to buy a 3/4 ton diesel ford maybe 10 years ago, but once dug into all of the issues regarding their failed 6.0, and 6.4's I bailed on them altogether. The last diesel I owned was a '04 Jetta, and that thing was awesome. To your point, smiles per mile!

I do believe that FCA is in the right path with their 3.0 diesel as I believe all of the issues regarding the RAM a number of years back are now a thing in the past. I can tell you I'd really like to own a diesel again, and I do have a lot of hope that as we move forward in time that these engines will once again be synonymous with very long term reliability. My speculation is that some 10 years on from the government mandated emissions restrictions, and associated electronics/hardware that the manufacturers are finally sorting out all of the issues. I do think that diesel will also have a bright future as MPG requirements continue to climb as mandated by our government.

For certain we are not hearing of any *major* engine failures with respect to this new diesel today with respect to Ford, GM, and FCA as we did a number of years back.
 
OP

GARRIGA

Well-Known Member
First Name
Alejandro
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
688
Reaction score
395
Location
South Florida
Vehicle(s)
Dodge Durango RT
Occupation
Finance
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #68
An option is to lease the diesel assuming it has as good or better residual as the 3.6. End of lease you still have the option to buy or walk away. If lifetime warranty were to be offered (last I heard it wasn’t) that might make the long term purchase more appealing.

Can’t argue driving a diesel wouldn’t be fun. Reason we buy jeeps. No?
 

Dakster

Member
First Name
Dak
Joined
Jun 24, 2019
Messages
13
Reaction score
13
Location
Alaska
Vehicle(s)
Ford F350, Chevy Trax
IMHO, in 10 years we might not even be able to buy a non-phev and in 15 years probably only electric vehicles. I'l throw in a fuel cell possibility, but I still don't see enough buy in for that technology yet. Hydrogen has some hurdles to overcome as well.

Always thought a PHEV diesel would be the way to go as diesel's at low RPM are very efficient. And sized right, a plug in is just recharging the battery pack so a narrow rpm range could work.
 

LeaN69

Well-Known Member
First Name
Russ
Joined
Feb 17, 2018
Messages
426
Reaction score
318
Location
NJ
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLUR StinGray (GONE)
IMHO, in 10 years we might not even be able to buy a non-phev and in 15 years probably only electric vehicles. I'l throw in a fuel cell possibility, but I still don't see enough buy in for that technology yet. Hydrogen has some hurdles to overcome as well.

Always thought a PHEV diesel would be the way to go as diesel's at low RPM are very efficient. And sized right, a plug in is just recharging the battery pack so a narrow rpm range could work.
Diesels are blacklisted after VW ordeal and perhaps their reputation is stained. And that why those 2 don't belong together.
I believe all German brands no longer offer diesels in US.
 

DocTwinkie

Well-Known Member
First Name
George
Joined
Aug 19, 2018
Messages
413
Reaction score
452
Location
Ohio
Vehicle(s)
2020 JLUR 3.6m, 2019 Acura RDX Adv.
Occupation
Doc... Duh.
The diesel is enticing for the mileage and torque.

That said it’s been so long mind as well be vaporware. Also it’s a fiat so it will have the reliability of absolute crap. Pile on this the fact that they had an emission scandal and that people (with many diesels) modify them to pollute more so they don’t have to deal with DPF and other system reliability that keep them from killing the driver, other people, and the earth.
 

Kidder212

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tom
Joined
Apr 13, 2019
Messages
195
Reaction score
208
Location
Tennessee
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLUR 2.0L turbo
Once again we are worried about all the health effects of global warming? We use these Jeeps to commute to work daily?? Meanwhile we are still allowing fluoride to be put in our drinking water??? We are using a Jeep to be an off-road vehicle to continue to erode the ground for smiles per mile?? WTF????
 

bruno747

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Messages
115
Reaction score
76
Location
Colorado
Vehicle(s)
2017 Rubicon Recon 2dr 6spd
An option is to lease the diesel assuming it has as good or better residual as the 3.6. End of lease you still have the option to buy or walk away. If lifetime warranty were to be offered (last I heard it wasn’t) that might make the long term purchase more appealing.

Can’t argue driving a diesel wouldn’t be fun. Reason we buy jeeps. No?
It's a shame but as far as I always saw the diesel was always exempt from the lifetime warranty offer. Even back when they first released the option the liberty diesel and cummins were not covered.
 
OP

GARRIGA

Well-Known Member
First Name
Alejandro
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
688
Reaction score
395
Location
South Florida
Vehicle(s)
Dodge Durango RT
Occupation
Finance
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #74
No lifetime warranty and that gives me pause.
 

BigGreen

Well-Known Member
First Name
Alex
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
325
Reaction score
283
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
JL Sport
The EPA will not allow diesels.
Look at what happened to the ED in the Ram. They've over complicated the simplicity of diesels to pass EPA rules, and it's still not enough. They killed power and mileage to meet EPA. It's a shame.

ONLY get the ED if you're going to remove/bypass emissions equipment and flash it right away, and never intend on using the warranty. I wanted a diesel for a long time, but after seeing how neutered and complicated they've gotten, I'm staying away.

Off topic, if I needed a Jeep diesel, I'd buy a Roxor.
 

                           
























































Top