Auto start/stop rant

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mgroeger

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Easiest, cheapest way to disable it is to disconnect one of the switches under the hood. Mine has been disconnected for about a year and a half and love it! Good luck whichever way you choose.
FYI to those considering this you will get the little dashboard warning light.





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Gee-pah

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What about the extra emissions caused by the manufacture of starter motors that wear out prematurely because of ESS? This seems like one of those ideas that really is not a good idea and will likely be dropped some time in the near future.
It’s a fair point.

the running answer is that incentivizng the creation of electric vehicles will bring their price down through innovation and economies of scale to the point where they themselves become more prevalent in the manufacturing process because they will become cheaper than their ICE equivalents, and that this will bring down some of the CO2 levels on the input side of electric vehicle creation

extra heavy duty starters to supply an ESS industry, given that ESS is a flash in the pan stop gap measure until electric vehicles so substantially replace ICE ones, are not anticipated to put pressure on our carbon footprint not nearly as much failure to move away from ICE.
but to expand your point, there is CO2 emission in electric vehicle creation .

it’s a lessor of two evils situation

that’s at least the theory.
 

rowdy4466

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2019 altitude, I just turn off the ess and have no troubles , I hate it , when I actually wear my belt first thing I do is turn off the ess. It doesn’t work if the seatbelt is not on.
 

Gee-pah

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Wow @TEXGOAT . A thought out post that is not incoherent dribble.

(To those here with little prior reading on the post, that thought's not an insult. Please read most of @TEXGOAT's rants here. I'm not calling him stupid, but rude.)

I mean don’t get me wrong, it’s utterly wrong, but at least it’s points are made clear enough to refute in this “marketplace of ideas” (Dershowitz) that is the JLWrangler Forum.

the very advances in battery technology that are needed won’t come if manufacturers aren’t icentivized by market demand to produce, which motivates them to innovate, which brings price down and quality up. and enjoy, along with consumers, economies of scale.

Liberty will result in people choosing the most economical thing right now, as gasoline prices don’t reflect, as they should, the cost of the cleanup their combustion necessitates.

And since tripling gas prices quickly would have devastating effects on the economy, policy, yes liberty reducing policy instituted more gradually over time makes electric vehicles more market competitive compared to ICE plants, to fuel (no pun intended) the economic benefits of electric vehicle mass production.

reducing people’s liberty is the lessor of two evils here, where freedom could result in a potentially human inhabitable planet in time.

Your free market forces stuff works just fine in situations were consumption of things doesn’t hurt others, or that hurt is paid for by the inflictor (higher gas prices.)
 
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Ahre

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Jeep had to do something to satisfy EPA and Kalifornia Air Resources Board. Kalifornia has legally prohibited the sale and use of the Smart StopStart. The Tazer JL Mini adds a lot of usable functionality.
Paul
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BlackGenesis

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Easiest, cheapest way to disable it is to disconnect one of the switches under the hood. Mine has been disconnected for about a year and a half and love it! Good luck whichever way you choose.
My Jeep has not auto stopped for 2 month now.
Discharge your secondary battery few times and so it does not hold charge as well and auto/stop start will not function - no warning lights.
 

mgroeger

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My Jeep has not auto stopped for 2 month now.
Discharge your secondary battery few times and so it does not hold charge as well and auto/stop start will not function - no warning lights.
IMO you're playing with fire there because if the secondary battery starts to flake out enough you won't even be able to start the Jeep. It's happened to myself and multiple others as well. Not that I'm a fan boy, but when mine puked I did some research and found [Banned Site] boy had the problem. His aux battery finally puked when he was on a trail out in the middle of BFE and the only thing that saved him was his little power jumper he carries.
 

Gee-pah

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Jeep had to do something to satisfy EPA and Kalifornia Air Resources Board. Kalifornia has legally prohibited the sale and use of the Smart StopStart. The Tazer JL Mini adds a lot of usable functionality.
Paul
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2020 JLUR
Interesting...did not know about CA and Smart StopStart prohibition. While I get the ban on sales as a matter of principle, as a person who believes in free markets where the can exist (e.g. they can't in the ICE vs electric vehicle space until gasoline prices reflect the cleanup costs associated with their use) to ban one form of tech but not another (Z automotive), or at least prevent Tazer JL's with the ESS tech built into them (with all the other perks) from being sold is not only IMHO policy that isn't fair, but since ESS is easily defeated, likely ineffective policy.

...not to mention doing nothing to prevent methods of bypassing this law (purchases through a 3rd party in States that don't ban the tech) from emerging.

Knee jerk law can sometimes be bad. I wonder if this latest stance is wild fire motivated, in the same way that mandatory sentencing in drug cases, motivated by all the violence policy maker's constituents have faced, left judges little discretion but to lock up basically honest people who made a single mistake with drugs.
 
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Gee-pah

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IMO you're playing with fire there because if the secondary battery starts to flake out enough you won't even be able to start the Jeep. It's happened to myself and multiple others as well. Not that I'm a fan boy, but when mine puked I did some research and found [Banned Site] boy had the problem. His aux battery finally puked when he was on a trail out in the middle of BFE and the only thing that saved him was his little power jumper he carries.
Mike, I talked of a FCA flash above that allows 2018 3.6L JL's to still cold crank if their ESS batteries fail: a feature reported to be inherent to M.Y. 2019 and later 3.6L JLs.

What you say is true for M.Y. 2018 3.6L JL's without this flash or the following hack.

Then, there's @Jebiruph's hack (links upon request) which permanently connects both batteries in parallel 100% of the time.

The problem with this, IMHO, is that those who adopt the hack should not allow ESS to engage, as it will be motivated to engage when the ESS battery may be low (because the ESS battery may no longer be tested in isolation prior to an ESS event, given the hack) and allow an ESS event to remain on long after it should because the ESS battery is supplemented by the main one during ESS events by this hack, and could lead to inadequate power to crank the engine when the ESS event is over--something that normally can't be the case when the ESS battery solely energizes the ESS event.

ESS events, as I bet you know, are prematurely terminated (before the operator takes their foot off the brake pedal) if the ESS battery, tested during the event, falls short of voltage---something less likely to happen if aided by a 100% permanent parallel connection to the very main battery that is suppose to be isolated during ESS events so it's juice can be used to crank the engine.

This is not to be critical of Jerry's @Jebiruph's hack, but rather to say that this poster feels the hack best contraindicated for use with ESS.

Interestingly enough, provided the ESS battery is fully charged, one trail technique is to isolate both batteries (take all the cables off the negative post of the main battery) at the campsite, run gear off the main battery, crank your 3.6L 2018 JL with this ESS battery (that has full charge) and THEN reconnect the disconnected negative post cables to the main battery so that the alternator of the now cranked vehicle can recharge the main battery.
 
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Gee-pah

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I've never understood why ESS gets so much grief.
Here's my conclusions, that could be both wrong or incomplete.

* People don't like to have to do things, whether effort, hack or tech (i.e. $) based to undo things they don't want. Vehicle purchase has historically involved the ability to not buy a particular make if it offered standard configurations unsuitable to the prospective buyer, or the inability to customize features. ESS is becoming more standard such that switching to another competitor in the same market segment (and the Wrangler's price range alternatives are currently small) doesn't earn you no ESS.

* It's not alone the effort in pressing the button. If a Sport Illustrated model appeared every time the button was pressed the button's label would wear out.

* People don't like change that doesn't make their lives easier. always on ICE has been the standard.

* People like freedom and are selfish. (If that sounds hurtful more than an observation, last time i checked I was also classified as a person with all the imperfections of that brand.) They won't adopt change without a metaphorical pole up their you know what, that comes either in the form of really in their face environmental crises (shoreline property in Iowa), which by that time will be impossible to correct, or law that forces them to adopt change.
 

PALIDN

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Any long term complications for removing the left hood switch to shut off ESS?
 

Gee-pah

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Any long term complications for removing the left hood switch to shut off ESS?
There's been enough reports on this forum about disconnecting the ESS switch affecting remote start and Electronic Vehicle Information Center warnings-perhaps many such warnings false readings, to believe that the action is not 100% void of complication, but in this poster's opinion unlikely, and if so, unlikely to cause any real problems that your desire to effect this step should no way be, at least tried, especially if you don't feel like paying or the tech to do this or pushing the ESS off button.

Of course, dash warnings, if you're fine about ignoring them, are part in parcel with this action.

: - )
 

ALRUI

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Not only that, but having owned old vehicles that would die at traffic lights, it STILL freaks me out when the vehicle shuts off. It's just an all-around annoying behavior that only serves to wear down parts, I doubt it makes hardly any impact on gas mileage. It seems to be optimized for sitting in heavy traffic, which I rarely ever do.
I concur & though I don't drive my wife's Jeep but once in a blue moon, when I do I forget to override the ESS switch (which works bassackwards) then it turns off & I immediately panic thinking somethings gone wrong. Give me a standard key operated ignition any day!
 

tts42572

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This.

At least they were wise enough to add a button to turn this crap off. My wife had a car where it basically couldn't be turned off.

I've made it a habit to just push the start button and the auto stop button off every time I start the car. Not a big deal.

Agree though, it is annoying that these auto makers force this stuff on us and it's usually the "default". The default should be "off" and let people who want it turn it on.

There’s a button you can push to turn it off each time you start the vehicle. Just sayin...
 

Gee-pah

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This.

At least they were wise enough to add a button to turn this crap off. My wife had a car where it basically couldn't be turned off.

I've made it a habit to just push the start button and the auto stop button off every time I start the car. Not a big deal.

Agree though, it is annoying that these auto makers force this stuff on us and it's usually the "default". The default should be "off" and let people who want it turn it on.
I am glad you simply press the button on not complain. It could be a lot worse: you could pay triple for gasoline to account for the cost of getting rid of the harm combusting it causes.

ESS frustration though, if you have it, is best directed at the EPA, which through CAFE standards essentially force such things on the manufacturers to meet fleet MPG thresholds or face extremely stiff fines that would be passed on in large part to vehicle owners like you and me.

And if you want to get frustrated at the EPA, do realize that they are taking this every tightening gradual but certain belt ratcheting position on MPGs to incentivize an electric vehicle future to combat global warming, because it is believed the freedoms we lose are more than offset by the survival we will hopefully achieve as a species by getting off a CO2 fuel creating standard.
 

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