Auto start/stop rant

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Bryce

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I'm not sure, even if invented by the powers that be, exactly what you think they have to gain by it personally in terms of money and power.
From https://www.co2nsensus.com/how-much-money-is-spent-on-climate-change-research
"The 2018 GAO report found that, while the Office of Management and Budget has reported that the federal government spent more than $154 billion on climate-change-related activities since 1993, much of that number is likely not being used to directly address climate change or its risks. Many of the projects reported as “climate-change-related activities” are only secondarily about climate change.'


From my post that was removed
During that time, around the early parts of the Global Warming scare, I was earning a degree in Applied Physics from the North Ave Trade School in Atlanta, Georgia. I had more than a few Professors tell us that we needed to jump on this bandwagon because we'd be able to make a lot of money from it. I wish I had heeded their advice, as they were right.​





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Gee-pah

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From https://www.co2nsensus.com/how-much-money-is-spent-on-climate-change-research
"The 2018 GAO report found that, while the Office of Management and Budget has reported that the federal government spent more than $154 billion on climate-change-related activities since 1993, much of that number is likely not being used to directly address climate change or its risks. Many of the projects reported as “climate-change-related activities” are only secondarily about climate change.'


From my post that was removed
During that time, around the early parts of the Global Warming scare, I was earning a degree in Applied Physics from the North Ave Trade School in Atlanta, Georgia. I had more than a few Professors tell us that we needed to jump on this bandwagon because we'd be able to make a lot of money from it. I wish I had heeded their advice, as they were right.​

That's a fair post I think @Bryce (not that I'm the last word.) If climate change monies are being spent in less than optimal ways towards addressing climate change then that needs to change.

But you don't--not that you've said otherwise--"throw out the baby with the bath water;" or destroy what's good while eliminating what's bad. Stated another way, climate remediation monies shouldn't be done without because they may be spent in sub-optimal ways but rather re-appropriated.

I'll bet there's lots of money to be made in the future tech that addresses climate change. In fact I hope there is so as to incentivize its creation.

The issue is that elected policy makers put their monies in blind trusts during the tenure of their offices, make how that money is managed completely transparent to overseers, and remain away from those industries for a certain period of time (before and) after office to avoid the political revolving door of elected official to consultant. And while in office they encourage green policy based on the science and what is best for current and future people.

Will grift happen....sure; regardless of whose energy lies ahead.
 

Koufax80

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My ESS constantly says it is not in effect because the battery is charging, despite the fact the battery consistently reads 14.3 V. Anyone else running this? Seem like something I should be concerned about? Thanks.
 

Gee-pah

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Now here's a normal post.

Don't get me wrong, its flat out lacking in logic like your rants @TEXGOAT, but at least it's written in a reasonably easy enough way to understand so as to critique in equally easy to understand prose, so those reading can-the ultimate goal--become more informed.

Normally, I'd be a lot more polite @TEXGOAT--but those who show little regard here like you don't deserve any better treatment than they give.

@Koufax80 : Matthew: @TEXGOAT tried, but he missed a critical step or two.

To test the auxiliary battery properly, the easiest way to do this is IMHO to first disconnect, temporarily, all the cables that are on the negative post of the main battery. Let them dangle in the air, away from any metal but their own.

Next, take your battery tester to the positive post of the main battery, and a conductive surface on the otherwise now detached series of cables that moments ago were on the main battery's negative post.

This, not @TEXGOAT's approach will tell you the voltage of the ESS battery on a 3.6L JL. I assure you, you're not getting the main battery's voltage here despite one of your tester's contact points being on its positive terminal. This is because with the main battery's negative post isolated as described above, you are not completing a circuit on the main battery.

Don't forget to firmly attach the temporarily detached cables back on to the main battery's negative post after effecting this test. Tighten but not over torque the nut(s) that keeps the teminals on the negative battery post.

"Later models will start and operate normally with a bad auxilliary battery, but the ESS system will not operate. Earlier models with a bad auxilliary battery may not start at all unless they have had the system modified"

Really--did you get that from @Jebiruph, it's initial poster, or me @TEXGOAT when I was previously explaining this using words dissimilar from your rants above?

It seems its okay for you to learn here @TEXGOAT, but post garbage concurrently. And when I say garbage i don't mean your untended mistaken advice above, I mean the crazy rants of this thread. Mistakes: anyone, of course myself included, can make those.

Do source your so called knowledge though like I do, crediting those who initially publish it @TEXGOAT.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/3-6l-ess-bad-aux-battery-no-start-firmware-fix.53608/

~~~~~~~

Matthew: what @TEXGOAT is suggesting is wrong because the batteries are connected in parallel in a 3.6L but for an instant prior to cold crank, and ESS events. To put your tester on the main battery at all but these times will give you a composite voltage of both batteries.

In order to test a single battery in the 3.6L you need to isolate it from the other. My above suggestion is "a" way to do it--I think the simpliest.

~~~~~~~~~

As for the "The ESS system is different on later JLUs than on the earlier ones." comment, the 2018 3.6L JL, as part of the engine crank procedure, isolates the ESS battery for an instant to test its voltage. If this voltage is inadequate no crank will be attempted, despite the fact that if this voltage threshold (which is much less than that for ESS to engage) is met, both batteries are then connected back in parallel to crank the engine and you could have a main battery with enough power to light up Los Angeles.

This design was....stupid IMHO. It could strand a motorist with a bad ESS battery despite having a good main battery more than capable of starting the engine. Many of us, myself included, wrote to the then President of FCA to not only demand that this change, but how: specifically that if the ESS battery fails this test , power switches over to the main battery.

FCA listened and incorporated this change into M.Y. 2019 3.6L JLs and newer, and created the above linked flash for 2018 model year rigs for which @Jebiruph deserves credit for publishing.

This ESS battery test, I surmise, was "stolen" by FCA from the algorithm to crank the engine post ESS event where the ESS event would never happen if the ESS battery wasn't full of power to begin with, and the ESS event would be terminated early if the ESS battery lost to much power during the ESS event...point being the ESS battery test that may happen before a post ESS event engine crank won't likely find the ESS battery lacking sufficient power to effect the crank, consistent with the algorithm.

This is why you can crank a 3.6L 2018, without the above linked flash with only the ESS battery connected (albeit with enough power in it,) but not only the main battery connected. Let me know if you want a link to just such a test.

By analogy, for the JL to protect the owner from cold crank failure, just as it would prevent the ESS event from occurring with a voltage deprived ESS battery, it would have to prevent owners from shutting off their engines if the ESS battery were low--so to not risk failure the next time the JL is started with a button push--which of course doesn't happen.

I hope this was helpful Matthew. None of the critique of @TEXGOAT is directly at you, and is itself only as rough around the edges as it is, despite being factual, because his @TEXGOAT' rants above, while his right to publish within the ok of the moderator, and NOT other people's obligation to read (we can all screen other member's posts out) wastes and disrespects other's time and thoughts on what turned out to be the crux of this thread's focus: global warming.

He does it, I suspect, because he doesn't want to risk being critiqued for his ideas on global warming, like he is here for his wrong advice on testing battery voltage.
 
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mgroeger

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I bought my 2020 JLUR back in May and I have absolutely loved the vehicle. Have taken it wheeling quite a bit in Colorado and made a trip out to Moab as well. My only major complaint is the auto start/stop, which works terribly....
  • when I pull into my garage, the vehicle shuts off when I come to a stop, then starts again when I shift into Park..... Why?
  • just about any time in traffic it shuts off just before I need to go again, so ends up being shut off for like a couple seconds
  • when waiting to make a left turn (not at a light), It stalls me long enough that a gap I could've squeezed through might close up
Not only that, but having owned old vehicles that would die at traffic lights, it STILL freaks me out when the vehicle shuts off. It's just an all-around annoying behavior that only serves to wear down parts, I doubt it makes hardly any impact on gas mileage. It seems to be optimized for sitting in heavy traffic, which I rarely ever do.

When I turn off park sense (for towing), the vehicle remembers and next time I start the vehicle it stays off. Why can't start/stop preference be persisted as well? Really think I shouldn't have to spend $300 on a tazer mini to eliminate start/stop.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk
Option #1 -
Start Jeep
Extend right pointer finger.
Point right pointer finger at ESS button.
Move arm in direction of ESS button while aiming finger at button.
Engage button with right pointer finger.
Put finger away.
(This procedure will work with pointer, middle, ring and pinky fingers as well.)

Option #2 -
Buy a Tazer Lite for $220.
 

mgroeger

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My ESS constantly says it is not in effect because the battery is charging, despite the fact the battery consistently reads 14.3 V. Anyone else running this? Seem like something I should be concerned about? Thanks.
If both batteries are properly charged and the system is working properly the ESS will engage. If EITHER battery is starting to drop the system will quit working and throw an error to the dash to get the ESS serviced. Bad aux batteries seem to still be an issue. I'd def take it into the dealer because the next step is if that aux battery pukes you won't start the Jeep even if the main battery is still good.
 

Gee-pah

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Option #1 -
Start Jeep
Extend right pointer finger.
Point right pointer finger at ESS button.
Move arm in direction of ESS button while aiming finger at button.
Engage button with right pointer finger.
Put finger away.
(This procedure will work with pointer, middle, ring and pinky fingers as well.)

Option #2 -
Buy a Tazer Lite for $220.
Couldn't agree more. The OP's response to similar suggestions on my part, which also included the hacks for this, was "PS, please don't try to molify a rant."

Sigh, some people would prefer that ICE engine use reduction comes in the form of tripling the prices of gasoline rather than a stupid button that's trivial to defeat.

Our JL's may sell at a premium someday for the fact that unlike newer model ICE vehicles, ESS was easily turned off.
 

YerMaun

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There’s a certain amount of brake pressure that will stop the Jeep without triggering the stop/start. Seems stupid, but I’ve gotten pretty good at controlling when the motor turns off with the brake.
100% this.
I've never understood why ESS gets so much grief. I've driven it in VWs and others as well as my Wrangler, and like BigGreen said it is very easy to control. I can roll smoothly to a halt, leave the engine running then if I want to press slightly harder on the brake to stop the engine. Then when it's near time to go release pedal slightly and the engine will restart without the car moving at all, until I want to. If it's a merge or situation when I don't want the engine to stop, it won't.
If you have a little right foot finesse, it is a completely controllable system that does exactly what you want, when you want.
(To be fair - I'm talking auto, I have not tried it with manual.)
 

HardSell

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I'm beginning to see the picture here: MSRP: $42,517 Hacks: $38,712 and counting.
 

Leisure Freak

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I don't use ESS unless by accident. I push the button to disable at startup but sometimes I must be too quick before it decides diagnostics are done and it doesn't engage the bypass. I have to keep an eye on the yellow indicator light to make sure ESS is actually deactivated. No biggie really.
My biggest complaint is the tiny buried ESS battery going bad and draining dry the main battery. Seems 75% of all my battery failures in life are the un-jumpable dead cell black-hole with absolutely no warning signs before they die. Usually 3 to 5 years in. Hopefully could still isolate JL batteries at the ground terminal and possibly jump from the drained but still good battery only, but just another electronic BS hassle to deal with and not if, but when.
My second biggest complaint about the JL ESS- The little battery has to be buried somewhere that's such a pain in the ass to get to when it will ALWAYS require being changed out every so many years.
I'll be changing stuff once it's out of warranty to take care of my little ESS design complaints.
 
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ESS haters: I respect you. I don't love it, I just fail to hate it. I get that you're worried about engine wear and risk that the rig won't crank in critical moments. I get that you don't want the government telling you what to do and that you have to effect some hack or buy some tech to turn ESS off.

Many of you are the same people who believe free market principles should prevail. I'd rather ESS. Here's why.

Let's say you buy into the theory of Global Warming: something that scientists of all political backgrounds say is happening. If you don't, I have no argument to sell you.

But if you do, or might, free market principles would have you paying for the CO2 cleanup that gallon of gas you (or I) bought caused. That might raise its cost to $12/gallon. Granted, that value is just a haphazard guess but you get the point.

Looked at from that angle, methods to turn ESS off, including getting into the habit of hitting the ESS off button at the same time as you press the start button all of sudden tend to become much cheaper and much better received alternatives to fair free market prices for carbon fuels.
What about the extra emissions caused by the manufacture of starter motors that wear out prematurely because of ESS? This seems like one of those ideas that really is not a good idea and will likely be dropped some time in the near future.
 

CodeRedH

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I bought my 2020 JLUR back in May and I have absolutely loved the vehicle. Have taken it wheeling quite a bit in Colorado and made a trip out to Moab as well. My only major complaint is the auto start/stop, which works terribly....
  • when I pull into my garage, the vehicle shuts off when I come to a stop, then starts again when I shift into Park..... Why?
  • just about any time in traffic it shuts off just before I need to go again, so ends up being shut off for like a couple seconds
  • when waiting to make a left turn (not at a light), It stalls me long enough that a gap I could've squeezed through might close up
Not only that, but having owned old vehicles that would die at traffic lights, it STILL freaks me out when the vehicle shuts off. It's just an all-around annoying behavior that only serves to wear down parts, I doubt it makes hardly any impact on gas mileage. It seems to be optimized for sitting in heavy traffic, which I rarely ever do.

When I turn off park sense (for towing), the vehicle remembers and next time I start the vehicle it stays off. Why can't start/stop preference be persisted as well? Really think I shouldn't have to spend $300 on a tazer mini to eliminate start/stop.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk
I have had my 2020 JLUR for 3 weeks now and the ESS is annoying. I have come into a routine when I get I. The Jeep: 1) Start Jeep 2) Close garage door 3) Pull in IPhone 4) Hit the ESS button. It is still annoying but it is less so now.
 

DaveMNH

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I bought my 2020 JLUR back in May and I have absolutely loved the vehicle. Have taken it wheeling quite a bit in Colorado and made a trip out to Moab as well. My only major complaint is the auto start/stop, which works terribly....
  • when I pull into my garage, the vehicle shuts off when I come to a stop, then starts again when I shift into Park..... Why?
  • just about any time in traffic it shuts off just before I need to go again, so ends up being shut off for like a couple seconds
  • when waiting to make a left turn (not at a light), It stalls me long enough that a gap I could've squeezed through might close up
Not only that, but having owned old vehicles that would die at traffic lights, it STILL freaks me out when the vehicle shuts off. It's just an all-around annoying behavior that only serves to wear down parts, I doubt it makes hardly any impact on gas mileage. It seems to be optimized for sitting in heavy traffic, which I rarely ever do.

When I turn off park sense (for towing), the vehicle remembers and next time I start the vehicle it stays off. Why can't start/stop preference be persisted as well? Really think I shouldn't have to spend $300 on a tazer mini to eliminate start/stop.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk
Easiest, cheapest way to disable it is to disconnect one of the switches under the hood. Mine has been disconnected for about a year and a half and love it! Good luck whichever way you choose.
 

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