Auto start/stop rant

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inorganik

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I bought my 2020 JLUR back in May and I have absolutely loved the vehicle. Have taken it wheeling quite a bit in Colorado and made a trip out to Moab as well. My only major complaint is the auto start/stop, which works terribly....
  • when I pull into my garage, the vehicle shuts off when I come to a stop, then starts again when I shift into Park..... Why?
  • just about any time in traffic it shuts off just before I need to go again, so ends up being shut off for like a couple seconds
  • when waiting to make a left turn (not at a light), It stalls me long enough that a gap I could've squeezed through might close up
Not only that, but having owned old vehicles that would die at traffic lights, it STILL freaks me out when the vehicle shuts off. It's just an all-around annoying behavior that only serves to wear down parts, I doubt it makes hardly any impact on gas mileage. It seems to be optimized for sitting in heavy traffic, which I rarely ever do.

When I turn off park sense (for towing), the vehicle remembers and next time I start the vehicle it stays off. Why can't start/stop preference be persisted as well? Really think I shouldn't have to spend $300 on a tazer mini to eliminate start/stop.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk





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aldo98229

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Well, that’s what ESS does.

I hated ESS during the test drive, but I’ve grown used to it.

Consider yourself lucky that your Jeep re-starts. A few JL owners haven’t been that lucky.
 

NoahVD

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Get used to it or but a tazer. The tazer does a lot of cool stuff, especially for the Rubicon with the ability to use the lockers and swaybar disconnect when you want. I did both, got used to the ESS and bought a tazer.
 

Tank the Jeep

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I’ll join you in the ESS haters club. For years we were taught that engine wear happens most on start up. Now with ESS a quick trip has the vehicle starting eight times, instead of two. And then again as I pull into the garage only to put it in park for it to start back and cut it off. The bearings have to be wearing with so much starting without oil pressure.

I drive a 2020 Ford Explorer with ESS for work. I have to say that tiny (lawnmower sized) engine handles ESS better than my JLURD 3.0 diesel does.

ESS sucks. I want a tazer.
 

D60

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Wow, the concept of ESS on a modern diesel is frightening to me. We've also always been taught modern diesels esp like long trips and long run times...grocery runs are harder on them than pulling 15k across the country. Now we're supposed to believe it's ok. But I'm just a Luddite so disregard.... besides I'm still trying to keep up w CDC recommendations -- do I get tested if I'm asymptomatic? Eh never mind, it'll change tomorrow anyway!
 

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I bought my 2020 JLUR back in May and I have absolutely loved the vehicle. Have taken it wheeling quite a bit in Colorado and made a trip out to Moab as well. My only major complaint is the auto start/stop, which works terribly....
  • when I pull into my garage, the vehicle shuts off when I come to a stop, then starts again when I shift into Park..... Why?
It's just the way it was designed. I would have preferred ESS to remain on when the vehicle is in Park, only to restart the engine if/when the vehicle is taken out of Park, so as to not start the engine in the many circumstances, like yours, where you're likely to turn the vehicle off anyway. I admit that there could very well be reasons why FCA didn't go with this design that may be beyond my understanding.
  • just about any time in traffic it shuts off just before I need to go again, so ends up being shut off for like a couple seconds
  • when waiting to make a left turn (not at a light), It stalls me long enough that a gap I could've squeezed through might close up
To prevent either of these from happening, "just before I need to go again," if ESS kicking in is not my preferred outcome, I stick the vehicle into 1st manual gear.

Of the many conditions that prevent ESS from engaging, not being in automatic transmission mode is one of them. BTW, shutting off for a couple of seconds as you describe, if in fact the case, is not normal behavior. I suggest you take the vehicle in for service if that's the case. ESS startup should be faster than your ability to pretty much move from brake to accelerator.

I don't recommend that you ever turn your wheel before a left turn for the obvious reasons we learned in driver's education about not being pushed into oncoming traffic if rear ended. But FWIW, a turned steering wheel is another condition that will prevent ESS from engaging.

Not only that, but having owned old vehicles that would die at traffic lights, it STILL freaks me out when the vehicle shuts off. It's just an all-around annoying behavior that only serves to wear down parts, I doubt it makes hardly any impact on gas mileage. It seems to be optimized for sitting in heavy traffic, which I rarely ever do.
ESS systems in aggregate, across all users has been shown to save gas. On the individual experience level, this will of course be a lot less. Some experts have gauged the point of returns at about 7 seconds of engine off time.

When I turn off park sense (for towing), the vehicle remembers and next time I start the vehicle it stays off. Why can't start/stop preference be persisted as well? Really think I shouldn't have to spend $300 on a tazer mini to eliminate start/stop.
Funny you mention towing. I've read on the forum that sticking a 7 pin trailer hitch outlet tester in the receptacle is enough to turn ESS off. Start/stop can be persistent with hacks that I can link you to if you're curious or tech, but isn't designed that way because the EPA will calculate the average MPG of the vehicle as the average of ESS engaged and NOT engaged if the ESS off button is "latching," or to rephrase, remembers its state of off or on from one cold crank to another. Vehicles with non-latching ESS buttons, like the JL get to report their MPG with ESS engaged to the EPA. These MPG numbers are critical for the manufacturer's fleet reaching certain MPG thresholds so as to not face whopping EPA penalties, or have to buy carbon credits at fair market value from manufacturers like Tesla, who have them to sell.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk
 

Gee-pah

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ESS haters: I respect you. I don't love it, I just fail to hate it. I get that you're worried about engine wear and risk that the rig won't crank in critical moments. I get that you don't want the government telling you what to do and that you have to effect some hack or buy some tech to turn ESS off.

Many of you are the same people who believe free market principles should prevail. I'd rather ESS. Here's why.

Let's say you buy into the theory of Global Warming: something that scientists of all political backgrounds say is happening. If you don't, I have no argument to sell you.

But if you do, or might, free market principles would have you paying for the CO2 cleanup that gallon of gas you (or I) bought caused. That might raise its cost to $12/gallon. Granted, that value is just a haphazard guess but you get the point.

Looked at from that angle, methods to turn ESS off, including getting into the habit of hitting the ESS off button at the same time as you press the start button all of sudden tend to become much cheaper and much better received alternatives to fair free market prices for carbon fuels.
 

RedundanT

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Bought a Tazer JL, haven't looked back, just don't buy the CRAP CAMERA from them.
 

LeodaJeep

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I bought my 2020 JLUR back in May and I have absolutely loved the vehicle. Have taken it wheeling quite a bit in Colorado and made a trip out to Moab as well. My only major complaint is the auto start/stop, which works terribly....
  • when I pull into my garage, the vehicle shuts off when I come to a stop, then starts again when I shift into Park..... Why?
  • just about any time in traffic it shuts off just before I need to go again, so ends up being shut off for like a couple seconds
  • when waiting to make a left turn (not at a light), It stalls me long enough that a gap I could've squeezed through might close up
Not only that, but having owned old vehicles that would die at traffic lights, it STILL freaks me out when the vehicle shuts off. It's just an all-around annoying behavior that only serves to wear down parts, I doubt it makes hardly any impact on gas mileage. It seems to be optimized for sitting in heavy traffic, which I rarely ever do.

When I turn off park sense (for towing), the vehicle remembers and next time I start the vehicle it stays off. Why can't start/stop preference be persisted as well? Really think I shouldn't have to spend $300 on a tazer mini to eliminate start/stop.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk
I bought my 2020 JLUR back in May and I have absolutely loved the vehicle. Have taken it wheeling quite a bit in Colorado and made a trip out to Moab as well. My only major complaint is the auto start/stop, which works terribly....
  • when I pull into my garage, the vehicle shuts off when I come to a stop, then starts again when I shift into Park..... Why?
  • just about any time in traffic it shuts off just before I need to go again, so ends up being shut off for like a couple seconds
  • when waiting to make a left turn (not at a light), It stalls me long enough that a gap I could've squeezed through might close up
Not only that, but having owned old vehicles that would die at traffic lights, it STILL freaks me out when the vehicle shuts off. It's just an all-around annoying behavior that only serves to wear down parts, I doubt it makes hardly any impact on gas mileage. It seems to be optimized for sitting in heavy traffic, which I rarely ever do.

When I turn off park sense (for towing), the vehicle remembers and next time I start the vehicle it stays off. Why can't start/stop preference be persisted as well? Really think I shouldn't have to spend $300 on a tazer mini to eliminate start/stop.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk
Bought an "Autostop Eliminator" from trlauto.com for $90. Second one I have had and they are awesome! Whatever position you leave it in, when you return it is in the same position.
 

OldGuyNewJeep

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I bought my 2020 JLUR back in May and I have absolutely loved the vehicle. Have taken it wheeling quite a bit in Colorado and made a trip out to Moab as well. My only major complaint is the auto start/stop, which works terribly....
  • when I pull into my garage, the vehicle shuts off when I come to a stop, then starts again when I shift into Park..... Why?
  • just about any time in traffic it shuts off just before I need to go again, so ends up being shut off for like a couple seconds
  • when waiting to make a left turn (not at a light), It stalls me long enough that a gap I could've squeezed through might close up
Not only that, but having owned old vehicles that would die at traffic lights, it STILL freaks me out when the vehicle shuts off. It's just an all-around annoying behavior that only serves to wear down parts, I doubt it makes hardly any impact on gas mileage. It seems to be optimized for sitting in heavy traffic, which I rarely ever do.

When I turn off park sense (for towing), the vehicle remembers and next time I start the vehicle it stays off. Why can't start/stop preference be persisted as well? Really think I shouldn't have to spend $300 on a tazer mini to eliminate start/stop.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk
SSS (Smart Stop Start) is a cheaper alternative to Tazer. It is a fantastic product. I own both a Tazer and SSS (I bought the latter during the period of time that Tazer’s ESS algorithm was buggy). Also, the SSS guy is a forum member and a good one at that.
 
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inorganik

inorganik

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ESS startup should be faster than your ability to pretty much move from brake to accelerator.
It's not

I don't recommend that you ever turn your wheel before a left turn for the obvious reasons we learned in driver's education about not being pushed into oncoming traffic if rear ended. But FWIW, a turned steering wheel is another condition that will prevent ESS from engaging.
Really don't want to use "hacks" to prevent ESS, I'd rather press the button.

Funny you mention towing. I've read on the forum that sticking a 7 pin trailer hitch outlet tester in the receptacle is enough to turn ESS off.
Unfortunately towing does not disable ESS, as I have had it kick in while towing (with trailer electrical plugged in)

PS, please don't try to molify a rant.
 
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inorganik

inorganik

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ESS haters: I respect you. I don't love it, I just fail to hate it. I get that you're worried about engine wear and risk that the rig won't crank in critical moments. I get that you don't want the government telling you what to do and that you have to effect some hack or buy some tech to turn ESS off.

Many of you are the same people who believe free market principles should prevail. I'd rather ESS. Here's why.

Let's say you buy into the theory of Global Warming: something that scientists of all political backgrounds say is happening. If you don't, I have no argument to sell you.

But if you do, or might, free market principles would have you paying for the CO2 cleanup that gallon of gas you (or I) bought caused. That might raise its cost to $12/gallon. Granted, that value is just a haphazard guess but you get the point.

Looked at from that angle, methods to turn ESS off, including getting into the habit of hitting the ESS off button at the same time as you press the start button all of sudden tend to become much cheaper and much better received alternatives to fair free market prices for carbon fuels.
There's a lot of putting words in mouths here, and a lot of unfair assumptions made about ESS haters like myself.

Putting those aside, ESS does more harm than good for many drivers who aren't ever sitting in urban traffic and satisfying the "7 seconds" of engine off-time that gives ESS a net-positive effect. Spent parts in landfills or energy used to recycle them are bad for the environment too.

Rather than come up with imagined, unsubstantiated "free-market gas prices", why not call out what's really to blame: a poorly engineered way to save gas that only works in certain driving conditions, and degrades the driving experience far more than it benefits the planet?
 

Notorious

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Why can't start/stop preference be persisted as well?
Not on this iteration of the Wrangler.
Get used to it
Pretty much.
Really think I shouldn't have to spend $300 on a tazer mini to eliminate start/stop.
Whats the price you’re willing to pay to not have to push a button? If you don’t know, it’s $300.

Each press will cost you a dollar. So every time you push that button, set aside a dollar. Three hundred pushes later, you’ll have enough to buy the tazer.
 

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