At the end of my rope of steering issues.***FIXED!****

[MntsRcalln]

So the wheels, 35s, mopar LCA caster at 6 and fox stabilizer u were good.

Then the 1 tire replaced, lift, upper and lower arms it started.

Everything else after didn't cause it or help. Everything on it before hand was good.

I know nothing about that lift or arms. BUT im sure if there were issues with either or the combination, there would be a 10 page thread on it.

In theory, if i put your lift and arms on mine it should shake. I have 35s and same offset wheels. If mine didn't then why?

I'm sure u have done geometry calculations in your sleep. I would. It's either that tire(s) or something could possibly be borked with a component of the lift or arms.

U have a total of 3 new tires and 1 old. Is there a big tread depth difference? I wouldn't think that would cause it, but who knows.

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[Jeep&dogs]

So the wheels, 35s, mopar LCA caster at 6 and fox stabilizer u were good.

Then the 1 tire replaced, lift, upper and lower arms it started.

Everything else after didn't cause it or help. Everything on it before hand was good.

I know nothing about that lift or arms. BUT im sure if there were issues with either or the combination, there would be a 10 page thread on it.

In theory, if i put your lift and arms on mine it should shake. I have 35s and same offset wheels. If mine didn't then why?

I'm sure u have done geometry calculations in your sleep. I would. It's either that tire(s) or something could possibly be borked with a component of the lift or arms.

U have a total of 3 new tires and 1 old. Is there a big tread depth difference? I wouldn't think that would cause it, but who knows.

You are pretty much spot on with the chain of events. But when the tire was replaced all the other tires were also re balanced. And yes, 3 new tires and one new. The two newest are currently on the front. Those are also the ones with the least amount of weight. There is a 2/32 tread depth difference between all of the tires.

 

[MntsRcalln]

You are pretty much spot on with the chain of events. But when the tire was replaced all the other tires were also re balanced. And yes, 3 new tires and one new. The two newest are currently on the front. Those are also the ones with the least amount of weight. There is a 2/32 tread depth difference between all of the tires.

I've had a bad tire balance out before. Belt inside wasn't right. No clue if it's your tires to be honest. I'd start going backwards at this point. Something during that tire, lift an arms started it. But why. I'm a newb with jeeps but messed with several solid axles and tires up to 40s. I'm still learning these things. I know my toe is out on mine big. I've got a guy who's been building these things for years putting in teraflex LCAs, yeti track bar and getting this toe right. (ill let him do it, he's got a lift ) Im there to help watch and learn a trick or two. If it all feels good, im done. Ill keep my original steering box. Ive driven stuff with a steering wheel the size of a trash can lid.

 

[Jeep&dogs]

I've had a bad tire balance out before. Belt inside wasn't right. No clue if it's your tires to be honest. I'd start going backwards at this point. Something during that tire, lift an arms started it. But why. I'm a newb with jeeps but messed with several solid axles and tires up to 40s. I'm still learning these things. I know my toe is out on mine big. I've got a guy who's been building these things for years putting in teraflex LCAs, yeti track bar and getting this toe right. (ill let him do it, he's got a lift ) Im there to help watch and learn a trick or two. If it all feels good, im done. Ill keep my original steering box. Ive driven stuff with a steering wheel the size of a trash can lid.

Yeah part of me says screw it and put everything back to stock but part of me just can’t giving in! I honestly cleaned all the salt and crap off it today and parked it back in the shop. It will probably sit there for at least the next month or so until all this white crap is gone and then maybe I can start back fresh with it. I have heard some horror stories about these BFG’s. One local shop flat out said they won’t even sell them because of balancing issues. They said they went to hell after they sold a few years back. My first thing will probably be trying to swap tires with someone and see how it drives. If not there is always 5 gallons of gas and a highway flare!

 

[MntsRcalln]

Getting away from it for a while can't hurt either. Your tires E or C?

 

[Jeep&dogs]

Getting away from it for a while can't hurt either. Your tires E or C?

315 C rated. That’s the only reason I went with these, there are not a lot of options in a 35 with a C rating

 

[MntsRcalln]

315 C rated. That’s the only reason I went with these, there are not a lot of options in a 35 with a C rating

My falcons are E and are smooth as silk.

That C rated sidewall is going to act differently in really cold Temps. It's going to flex differently. Not to mention we all running 30ish pressure. Plus, if a tire isn't right to begin with, that could make it worse.

Your idea of switching out wheel tire combo with someone is a good step in the right direction.

 

[Jeep&dogs]

My falcons are E and are smooth as silk.

That C rated sidewall is going to act differently in really cold Temps. It's going to flex differently. Not to mention we all running 30ish pressure. Plus, if a tire isn't right to begin with, that could make it worse.

Your idea of switching out wheel tire combo with someone is a good step in the right direction.

Yes, the Falken and the Toyo are on my short list. Mi biggest issue is finding someone to swap with. I’m the only one in my group with a Jl. Everyone else stuck with the Tj’s. I got tired of fighting rust!

 

[BamaJeep]

I’ve been through this entire thread. Really pulling for the original poster that he can find the issue going on here. Has to be frustrating as hell I’m sure. Really gives a new perspective to me on modding a Jeep.

Anytime I get an itchiness now to lift my Jeep and start spending hours researching I’m going to reread this entire thread first. For me, it is like taking a cold shower before entering The Club. Money stays right in my pocket.
“No I’m sorry Miss Synergy, I will not walk behind that curtain with you.”

“Thank you for the invitation Madam Rockrawler but I must decline”

“yes, Rough Country is still lurking in the parking lot outside but I didn’t make eye contact just like you said”

 

[richk225]

Your running C rated tires along with everyone else including the set I have on my Raptor.
The main reason people go to D or E rated it because of the sidewall thickness and its ability to go down to single digit numbers when you are out rock crawling, as long as you have the right rims. And once your done you air them back up to 32 in the front and 30 in the rear. ot you can to your own tire foot print test to see how much of the tire is actually hitting the pavement.It sucks to have a problem that just does not want to go away but if you have changed everything and thrown enough money at it you would think it would be fixed by now. Look at just how many Jeeps there are out there running BFG Tires ans now with Jeep switching to Falken that may change things a bit. But you are talking about thousands of Rubicons and other lifted Jeep that are out there driving straight as an arrrow.You can say what you want about the elector Hydraulic steering not being part of the equation but that's not what manufactures are saying.
Did you check your front and rear axle assembly to see it you have the same amount of Rotor to frame clearance at all 4 corners with the vehicle weight on the ground or 4 jack stands? Did you have them just put the rims on the balancer to see how much runout there was is for each rim?
I went through all of this and I know just how much it sucks to the point of giving my keys back to the Jeep dealer and getting something else. I would try a stock set of tires that will clear your knuckles and rule that out, and while they are off go and have everything checked out. Are you running TPMS sensors?

 

[MntsRcalln]

@BamaJeep Miss Teraflex gets me every time.

 

[Jeep&dogs]

Your running C rated tires along with everyone else including the set I have on my Raptor.
The main reason people go to D or E rated it because of the sidewall thickness and its ability to go down to single digit numbers when you are out rock crawling, as long as you have the right rims. And once your done you air them back up to 32 in the front and 30 in the rear. ot you can to your own tire foot print test to see how much of the tire is actually hitting the pavement.It sucks to have a problem that just does not want to go away but if you have changed everything and thrown enough money at it you would think it would be fixed by now. Look at just how many Jeeps there are out there running BFG Tires ans now with Jeep switching to Falken that may change things a bit. But you are talking about thousands of Rubicons and other lifted Jeep that are out there driving straight as an arrrow.You can say what you want about the elector Hydraulic steering not being part of the equation but that's not what manufactures are saying.
Did you check your front and rear axle assembly to see it you have the same amount of Rotor to frame clearance at all 4 corners with the vehicle weight on the ground or 4 jack stands? Did you have them just put the rims on the balancer to see how much runout there was is for each rim?
I went through all of this and I know just how much it sucks to the point of giving my keys back to the Jeep dealer and getting something else. I would try a stock set of tires that will clear your knuckles and rule that out, and while they are off go and have everything checked out. Are you running TPMS sensors?

I do collision training for a living and have been a master tech for 30+ years. I literally have every OEM certification that is available from FCA to Audi and even exotics. I have gone as far as putting this thing on a Car-O-Liner digital frame rack and measured the squareness of the front and rear axels, the offset of the axles and even the control arm mounting points. The axels are square within 2MM to the center section of the Jeep, they are centered within 1 MM of the center section of the Jeep. All of the control arm mounting points are within 4 MM of each other in relationship to the centerline of the Jeep and also the datum plane. I have personally checked this thing on an alignment rack and verified all the specs including the Steering inclination Angle. I have spun every rim on a Hunter Elite road force balancer which measures lateral and radial runout and all were well within spec.

I was on the phone with a electronic engineer from FCA yesterday (because of my job I have access to these guys) and we discussed the EHPS software and the extent that the computer can change input of the system. It’s on or off, and has the ability to increase or decrease line pressure based of engine RPM. He verified 100% it’s not designed to do anything other than that. He even went as far as contacting the service manager of the shop local to me and made arrangements to bring the Jeep into them yesterday and hook it up to Dealer connect. They were able to reflash the PCM to the latest software which the Jeep already had but he wanted to visually see for himself it was properly installed.

The ONLY manufacturer that swears the steering system is the cause is PSC and they happen to sell steering systems. This is from their ad.

Quick Overview
The New Jeep JL is equipped with new computer controlled electro-hydraulic steering (EHPS), electronic stability control (ESC), electronic roll mitigation (ERM), and a weight saving aluminum housing steering gearbox.

I discussed this in depth with one of the engineers that designs this system yesterday and he said that’s simply not true, the EHPS system doesn’t even have ANY link to either of the systems PSC is claiming. He even offered to provide me the electrical schematic if I wanted to prove it.
The ONLY advantage PSC has is their box which I am sure has tighter manufacturing tolerance than the aluminum box, and most likely even slightly better than the cast iron box. I would bet any money it they took their box and ran it with the factory EHPS it would be the same as their belt drive pump.

 

[BamaJeep]

@BamaJeep Miss Teraflex gets me every time.

Miss Teraflex showed up on my doorstep literally last night. I could not refuse. Soooo ... is like the product catalog now considered the PlayBoy magazine?

 

[aro]

Anytime I get an itchiness now to lift my Jeep and start spending hours researching I’m going to reread this entire thread first. For me, it is like taking a cold shower before entering The Club.

You realize you are making a decision based on the worst case scenario? Do you fly? Do you drive? Do you get out of the house?

I get you though When I read threads like this one, it makes me paranoid. I can only hope my lift will behave in the long run.

 

[richk225]

I do collision training for a living and have been a master tech for 30+ years. I literally have every OEM certification that is available from FCA to Audi and even exotics. I have gone as far as putting this thing on a Car-O-Liner digital frame rack and measured the squareness of the front and rear axels, the offset of the axles and even the control arm mounting points. The axels are square within 2MM to the center section of the Jeep, they are centered within 1 MM of the center section of the Jeep. All of the control arm mounting points are within 4 MM of each other in relationship to the centerline of the Jeep and also the datum plane. I have personally checked this thing on an alignment rack and verified all the specs including the Steering inclination Angle. I have spun every rim on a Hunter Elite road force balancer which measures lateral and radial runout and all were well within spec.

I was on the phone with a electronic engineer from FCA yesterday (because of my job I have access to these guys) and we discussed the EHPS software and the extent that the computer can change input of the system. It’s on or off, and has the ability to increase or decrease line pressure based of engine RPM. He verified 100% it’s not designed to do anything other than that. He even went as far as contacting the service manager of the shop local to me and made arrangements to bring the Jeep into them yesterday and hook it up to Dealer connect. They were able to reflash the PCM to the latest software which the Jeep already had but he wanted to visually see for himself it was properly installed.

The ONLY manufacturer that swears the steering system is the cause is PSC and they happen to sell steering systems. This is from their ad.

Quick Overview
The New Jeep JL is equipped with new computer controlled electro-hydraulic steering (EHPS), electronic stability control (ESC), electronic roll mitigation (ERM), and a weight saving aluminum housing steering gearbox.

I discussed this in depth with one of the engineers that designs this system yesterday and he said that’s simply not true, the EHPS system doesn’t even have ANY link to either of the systems PSC is claiming. He even offered to provide me the electrical schematic if I wanted to prove it.
The ONLY advantage PSC has is their box which I am sure has tighter manufacturing tolerance than the aluminum box, and most likely even slightly better than the cast iron box. I would bet any money it they took their box and ran it with the factory EHPS it would be the same as their belt drive pump.

I is great that you have enough contacts and know more than most Jeep engineers,I missed if you had the steering box changed? I know that they went through Two different ones and there was not a difference at all, The cast iron steering box was not available at the time I had my Jeep. But my Jeep did this from day one, no lift, no mods at all. So now I see this and wonder if it has helped anyone with the issue like you and I and others were/are having. With over 400 plus pages of people complaining about their steering you would thing that Jeep would have taken it a little bit more seriously. If the EHPS software has nothing to do with the steering why are they constantly updating it and it is helping along with the new steering box. The first one might help understand how the system works, and if none of the electronics come into the operation of the power steering why does it overheat and throw a code and stop working until it cools down. Was any of this designed in hindsight for the steering lane assist (bliss) and if not why have a computer and an electric power steering pump? it does not rob that much power (hp) from the engine. And to be told time after time it`s a Jeep thing is just plain insulting. The first link will help people understand how the system is supposed to work. If the electric pump and computer have nothing to do with the steering what are they there for? I ended up giving up my Jeep because it spent more time at the dealer than in my own driveway. Did I see and drive a Jep JL with the basic power steering pump installed, yes and it corrected the majority of the issues and after driving their system with just their steering box and steering pump it was like night and day. You don`t have to go all out with a full Ram assist system but look at how many people have changed over and it is like driving a Jeep the way it is supposed to be driven. I was just not going to give in on a brand new Jeep Rubicon that cost me well over $52k and dump another $2300. to make it steer right like it should have from the factory! That was my decision and I hope that the problem is going to be resolved by the time my 392 Rubicon gets here or I`ll just keep my Raptor.
You certainly have the knowledge and expertise and the skill to fix a situation like this, but yet it seems to elude you and many others.The steering parts you have bought in hopes of resolving the issue have not done so, so what is left? steering box, pump and Body control module. Would you consider changing any of these to try to fix the problem? I know that my Raptor has the lane departure nannie that alerts you when you are drifting out of your lane and that is controlled by the body control module and other sensors that are involved with the BLISS system.
Thing that sucks most is that there are people who don't even know what a torque wrench is and they have not had one single steering issue, unlike you, me and all of the others. It took them several tries to fix my back camera from going to a blue screen. They replaced the camera played with the software and even ordered a new wiring harness for inside the tailgate and nothing worked until another tech followed the wire harness up to the connector up front and discovered that one pin was not set into the connector all of the way, once he pushed the wire into the connector it clicked in and locked in and the back up camera worked just fine.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...hydraulic_Closed-Center_Power_Steering_System

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...teering-and-telescoping-steering-column.1197/

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/JL...RAULIC-POWER-STEERING-(EHPS)-SYSTEM---ESS.pdf

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/attachments/tsb-08-074-20-pdf.356442/

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/attachments/tsb-08-003-21-pdf.422345/

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10184470-9999.pdf

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...els-like-it-has-play-and-drifts.3691/page-448

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Jeep/Wrangler/2018/tsbs/tsb-08-074-20-rev-e.shtml

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