At 80, Jeep sets new goals: Beat Bronco, add EVs, maybe go underwater

[EJWF11]

At 80, Jeep sets new goals: Beat Bronco, add EVs, maybe go underwater

What?? Jeep underwater?? Hahhh???

Id be happy with one that took me to space and let me float around like the englishman.

Sponsored

 

[SH556JL]

On board oxygen so I can go naked, the Jeep too.

 

[kermitjewel]

At 80, Jeep sets new goals: Beat Bronco, add EVs, maybe go underwater

What?? Jeep underwater?? Hahhh???

Id be happy with one that took me to space and let me float around like the englishman.

flying jeep someday

 

[FJL40]

How about a bare bones Rubicon….all the Rubicon hardware and huge tires, without the gadets. Price it in the $30k range…..winner!

 

[aldo98229]

How about customer service that is in line with Jeep’s lofty prices?

Somehow, this seems harder to reach than the moon.

 

[legacy_etu]

How about customer service that is in line with Jeep’s lofty prices?

Somehow, this seems harder to reach than the moon.

^^ This please.

 

[Oldbear]

How about a bare bones Rubicon….all the Rubicon hardware and huge tires, without the gadets. Price it in the $30k range…..winner!

Sadly that was what the Rubicn was initially meant to be, a barebones, go anywhere vehicle. Unfortunately it quickly morphed into the ultimate mall crawler and folks who actually use their a portion of their capability are a small percentage of Rubi owners…

 

[mdkautzman]

Sadly that was what the Rubicn was initially meant to be, a barebones, go anywhere vehicle. Unfortunately it quickly morphed into the ultimate mall crawler and folks who actually use their a portion of their capability are a small percentage of Rubi owners…

It amazes me how many of my friends tell me their wife wants a Rubicon. They haven't nor will ever take one off the pavement. But it's always a Rubicon model. Status?

 

[Reinen]

This is pretty big news, especially the quote from Mark Allen, Director of exterior design.

It also opens up design opportunities. Without the engine block and its accessories, Jeep will be able to offer "frunk" front storage space and open up the back of the vehicle without the concern of tailpipe emissions, said Mark Allen, director of Jeep exterior design.

"The only important piece is the power goes to all four wheels," Allen said. "Going into electric, we’ll have greater control and be able to send torque to individual wheels that we can't do now with a single power source. We can have up to four power sources — one for each wheel, even."

I thought that Jeep has a lot of design opportunities if it's redesigned as an EV from the ground up. That quote makes it clear that Jeep is looking at all of those opportunities.
Here's what I read into these statements:

1. The 4WD drivetrain is going away.
   This is good! As good as the 4WD drivetrain is, it has limitations in how it can distribute power from only one engine. Each wheel powered by its own motor would be far more capable. It would also eliminate "lesser" drivetrains from base trims because the only step down from 4 motor drive is only having 2 driving wheels. I don't think Jeep will go for 2WD only.
2. Live axles are going away.
   While live axles permit as much flex as the suspension will allow, L/R wheels must remain parallel. That's a limitation. But don't think IFS. IFS is worse for off-road because it has limited flex due to axle angle. A 4 motor drive EV Jeep wouldn't have axles. So you'll get all the benefits of IFS without the flex limitation. An EV Jeep opens the possibility of Mars Rover style suspensions. All the flex the Wrangler currently has (or more) with all the benefits of IFS on-road.
3. Easier to lift
   Since the entire drivetrain will be mostly contained within each wheel, a suspension can be designed to easily accomodate lift. Or even be adjustable, lifting on demand.
4. Massive ground clearance improvement.
   Currently the most ground clearance possible is roughly 45% of tire diameter because of the live axles & pumpkins. Replacing the axles with 4 motor drive would allow ground clearance greater than the center of the tire everywhere except immediately behind each wheel.
5. The 2dr will make a comeback.
   The removal of the engine will allow for a Frunk, a godsend to the 2dr. It solves the major problem with the 2dr, you must choose between carrying 2 extra passengers or cargo. Can't have both. With EV you can have both without losing the 2dr's fun and nimbleness. This will bring a segment of the 4dr market back to 2dr.
6. Fully flat underside armor will come standard on all trims.
   The most logical place for the battery is between the frame rails. Low center of gravity and fully flat. It will require underside armor to protect it. No more pumpkins to whack or crossmembers to get hung up on.
7. Greater failure protection
   The Jeep would be driven by 4 motors instead of one. If a motor dies, well now you have 3WD. That will still get you somewhere.
8. Greater water fording depth
   The ICE motor and drivetrain requires air to function. EV does not. With the access to air requirement removed the limitation moves to water pressure tolerance at depth.
9. Greater design options for rear windows
   A major factor in the design of the rear of the Jeep is preventing exhaust from entering the cabin. This is not a concern in an EV and it will no longer limit design. I'm not sure what they will do with this, but they will be able to do more than they previously could.

This all adds up to a crazy capable off-road vehicle. If the new solid-state batteries live up to their potential, the EV Jeep will be a massive step forward in capability.

 

[aldo98229]

This is pretty big news, especially the quote from Mark Allen, Director of exterior design.

I thought that Jeep has a lot of design opportunities if it's redesigned as an EV from the ground up. That quote makes it clear that Jeep is looking at all of those opportunities.
Here's what I read into these statements:

1. The 4WD drivetrain is going away.
   This is good! As good as the 4WD drivetrain is, it has limitations in how it can distribute power from only one engine. Each wheel powered by its own motor would be far more capable. It would also eliminate "lesser" drivetrains from base trims because the only step down from 4 motor drive is only having 2 driving wheels. I don't think Jeep will go for 2WD only.
2. Live axles are going away.
   While live axles permit as much flex as the suspension will allow, L/R wheels must remain parallel. That's a limitation. But don't think IFS. IFS is worse for off-road because it has limited flex due to axle angle. A 4 motor drive EV Jeep wouldn't have axles. So you'll get all the benefits of IFS without the flex limitation. An EV Jeep opens the possibility of Mars Rover style suspensions. All the flex the Wrangler currently has (or more) with all the benefits of IFS on-road.
3. Easier to lift
   Since the entire drivetrain will be mostly contained within each wheel, a suspension can be designed to easily accomodate lift. Or even be adjustable, lifting on demand.
4. Massive ground clearance improvement.
   Currently the most ground clearance possible is roughly 45% of tire diameter because of the live axles & pumpkins. Replacing the axles with 4 motor drive would allow ground clearance greater than the center of the tire everywhere except immediately behind each wheel.
5. The 2dr will make a comeback.
   The removal of the engine will allow for a Frunk, a godsend to the 2dr. It solves the major problem with the 2dr, you must choose between carrying 2 extra passengers or cargo. Can't have both. With EV you can have both without losing the 2dr's fun and nimbleness. This will bring a segment of the 4dr market back to 2dr.
6. Fully flat underside armor will come standard on all trims.
   The most logical place for the battery is between the frame rails. Low center of gravity and fully flat. It will require underside armor to protect it. No more pumpkins to whack or crossmembers to get hung up on.
7. Greater failure protection
   The Jeep would be driven by 4 motors instead of one. If a motor dies, well now you have 3WD. That will still get you somewhere.
8. Greater water fording depth
   The ICE motor and drivetrain requires air to function. EV does not. With the access to air requirement removed the limitation moves to water pressure tolerance at depth.
9. Greater design options for rear windows
   A major factor in the design of the rear of the Jeep is preventing exhaust from entering the cabin. This is not a concern in an EV and it will no longer limit design. I'm not sure what they will do with this, but they will be able to do more than they previously could.

This all adds up to a crazy capable off-road vehicle. If the new solid-state batteries live up to their potential, the EV Jeep will be a massive step forward in capability.

I agree with all except No. 3: Easier to lift. This sounds like a pipe dream given the added complexity an EV —e.g., autonomous driving features, etc.— is likely to have.

Now that Ford has entered the off-road game —well, sort of, the pressure is on Jeep to stay in the lead. Ford has already shown to be much better at playing the EV game than FCA.

 

[wolf]

How about a bare bones Rubicon….all the Rubicon hardware and huge tires, without the gadets. Price it in the $30k range…..winner!

Just a/c ,power steering, cruise,power windows. We will get our on gps/radio w/cd player. Nothing interconnected all stand alone system. No nanny crap or or electrical engine lights etc.

 

[Reinen]

I agree with all, except No. 3: Easier to lift. This sounds like a pipe dream given the added complexity an EV is likely to have.

Now that Ford has entered the off-road game —well, sort of, the pressure is on Jeep to stay in the lead. Ford has already shown to be much better than FCA at the EV game.

I see that exactly the opposite. The drivetrain would be mostly contained within the wheel itself. All it needs is an electrical cable. So while it would have complexity, that complexity wouldn't extend into the suspension like axles & driveshafts do. They're free to design the suspension pretty much however they want. And they know everyone wants to lift their Jeep.

 

[The Last Cowboy]

It that scenario an electronic glitch or a chip malfunction could leave you stranded. An what value will they have when 10 years old? Will it be like other expensive electronics that get dumped as they are now worthless and u wanted?

 

[aldo98229]

I see that exactly the opposite. The drivetrain would be mostly contained within the wheel itself. All it needs is an electrical cable. So while it would have complexity, that complexity wouldn't extend into the suspension like axles & driveshafts do. They're free to design the suspension pretty much however they want. And they know everyone wants to lift their Jeep.

The added complexity is likely going to come from outside the powertrain.

If other EVs are an indication, the shift to electrification is going to bring with it the temptation to add all sorts of autonomous driving and safety capabilities. Even if they are only partially autonomous driving features, like lane departure, forward collision and self parking, the pressure will be there.

 

[SouthernJL]

It amazes me how many of my friends tell me their wife wants a Rubicon. They haven't nor will ever take one off the pavement. But it's always a Rubicon model. Status?

On the JK, I believe the only visual difference between a Rubicon and a non Rubicon (other than the sticker) is the modest bulge on the hood. It didn't really stand out from the pack (visually).

On the JL, the difference is more noticeable. It has a more aggressive looking hood with vents and the higher fender flares. It looks more menacing. I think that's the main reason pavement dwellers want the Rubi these days.

Jeep knew that it could maximize its Rubi sales to non off-roaders by making it look better. I think the plan worked.

Sponsored