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The Last Cowboy

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https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/com...4b3c2d6d1e768cd&ocid=winp2fptaskbarhover&ei=8

I must say, the amount of new owners posting here has dwindled. Also, the amount of brand new heavily modified Jeeps have dwindled.

Part of this is the strange economy we are in right now. The other part I can fix for Jeep real easy. If only someone there would read this forum once in awhile

1. Quality control. The little things become big headaches for owners, especially when getting things fixed under warranty is so difficult. Want to reduce warranty costs? Build a better vehicle. That simple

2. MSRP. Not just Jeep, but every manufacturer read the winds wrong two years ago. People were standing in line and handing dealers money, many over MSRP, for anything that would show up on the lot. Most manufacturers were hit on both sides from increases in supplies and passing it on, to just not taking time to understand why so many were paying so much. So, they just keep raising prices and that took the dealer "market adjustment" away. Well, the buying public adjusted all right, to thinking that the 5 year old vehicle in the driveway doesn't look so bad now. Lower the prices.

Jeep could also cut costs, passing that to the consumer with reduced prices, by reducing complexity. The ESS, two battery system is a pain in the ass and has caused customers to become disgruntled and dealer service departs to be constantly dealing with battery warranties, in 2023! I thought battery tech was entering a new age. Let's not even start to talk about paint issues around the door and hood hinges.

Ford just announced that they are significantly reducing the complexity of the F150 and cutting the MSPR thousands, as early as 2024 models. Following a major refresh, that can only mean that they are de-contenting, perhaps getting rid of one or more of the luxury models.

I'm really surprised that Jeep added more complexity in the 2024s, giant screens on all models, more and more sub models with more stuff. Hell, that damn grille is significantly more complicated than the traditional one it replaces.

Complexity leads to less reliability. People are tired of things breaking and going in for warranty work and recalls. Granted, much of what breaks is "tech", what we used to call electronic gadgetry. Ford's Sync3 has been a disaster. Their 10 Speed automatic, co developed with GM, has also been problematic. Looks like Ford came to their senses. Let's hope #Jeep follows.

The entire economy isn't in the sewer yet. Businesses are still hiring. Home Depot has been crazy busy the last few months, houses are still being built around here, and there are new highways being built (no tolls here in San Antonio/Bexar County!).

I'd say that the biggest problem with sales numbers right now, as far as we the buyer are concerned, are steeply rising MSRPs combined with interest rates that are no longer at record lows. One thing Jeep can somewhat control, the other they can't. The decision is simple if you are sitting in their C suite.
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While I am not a fan of anything published by msn I do agree with most of your assessment about Jeep’s growing problem. I don’t know what the profit margins are on the Wrangler but I suspect they are astronomical. Milking the proverbial cash cow is soon going to cost them dearly in terms of market share; something hard to recapture. By comparison Tesla understands this and thus huge price cuts have ensued on their highly profitable line of EVs. Of course Elon Musk probably has more brains in his pinky than that possessed collectively by the c-suite at Stellantis.
 
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The Last Cowboy

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I don't like MSN articles, especialy opinion pieces (which is what most news is today). But the numbers were legit and the article was short. So I gave some credence.
 

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The price increases over the last few years seem obscene, but the reality is that Jeep has cut the cost of base model Wranglers by about 5% over the last 5 years. USD inflation is just bad enough that Jeep's cost decreases are not readily obvious.
 

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MSN clickbait…. An EV promoting idiot that never owned a Jeep wrote that article. How do I know? Here is a clip from the next article right below it:

“The death wobble on certain Jeeps could stem from defective track bars, ball joints, spark plugs, tire pressure sensors, wheel bearings, steering box, and so on.” :LOL:

I worked as an electrical engineer in the media business for over 30 years. I never met a journalist that understood mechanics, electronics, or science to any competent level. They are English majors. By the same token, the majority of engineers suck at writing.
 

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The Last Cowboy

The Last Cowboy

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This is a very strange economy indeed. Some parts are in recession and some are going strong. It feels as if it's on a slippery slope, or the back side of a bell curve now. I doubt we've seen the worst.
 
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The Last Cowboy

The Last Cowboy

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MSN clickbait…. An EV promoting idiot that never owned a Jeep wrote that article. How do I know? Here is a clip from the next article right below it:

“The death wobble on certain Jeeps could stem from defective track bars, ball joints, spark plugs, tire pressure sensors, wheel bearings, steering box, and so on.” :LOL:

I worked as an electrical engineer in the media business for over 30 years. I never met a journalist that understood mechanics, electronics, or science to any competent level. They are English majors. By the same token, the majority of engineers suck at writing.
I posted for the sale figures, which was the point of their little piece. They got something right. My comments expanded on it.

This forum probably has the greatest number of late model Jeep owners whose opinions are posted here everyday. There are no old JLs yet. So everyone here has some sort of idea of what it would take to draw them back into the dealer.

As for me, nothing. I can't justify a nearly $8k increase to replace mine if something happens to it. Yeah, I get more for the money. But I don't want more. And now I can't get a V6 Willys with and automatic. Maybe the changes to the 6 speeds clutch system will make it better.
 

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@Dusty Dude Great info— having checked everything else It Must Be The Spark Plugs , did he say a step hotter or colder spark plugs corrected the front end shimmy ? Uh oh— how are we going to fix the full EV Jeeps ?
 
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The Last Cowboy

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Great info— having checked everything else It Must Be The Spark Plugs , did he say a step hotter or colder spark plugs corrected the front end shimmy ? Uh oh— how are we going to fix the full EV Jeeps ?
It's the plug gap, obviously. Oh, and the aftermarket fuel door voids the warranty!
 

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I posted for the sale figures, which was the point of their little piece. They got something right. My comments expanded on it.

This forum probably has the greatest number of late model Jeep owners whose opinions are posted here everyday. There are no old JLs yet. So everyone here has some sort of idea of what it would take to draw them back into the dealer.

As for me, nothing. I can't justify a nearly $8k increase to replace mine if something happens to it. Yeah, I get more for the money. But I don't want more. And now I can't get a V6 Willys with and automatic. Maybe the changes to the 6 speeds clutch system will make it better.
Your analysis was spot on. I was only pointing out that the person writing the article was repeating what they were told by someone else - a common practice in the industry.

The only thing I would say differently was that Stellantis was possibly keeping their employees working more than some of the other brands, which explains the high inventory. I would be willing to bet they we’re thinking they could gain more market share by having vehicles available, but the dealers were gauging customers the same as the other brands, so it didn’t work.
 

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The Last Cowboy

The Last Cowboy

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Tesla lowered prices significantly. Ford is making a good effort. Ford also released a statement saying that quality control will become far more serious for them. Warranty costs were way over expectations.

I hope this type of thinking spreads through the industry. I’d hate to see the quality of the mid 70s to early 80s return. The US auto industry still hasn’t recovered from that. If it wasn’t for trucks and SUVs, the US auto industry would have been forced to take on Japan seriously.
 
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The Last Cowboy

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Related article I posted earlier this month, which supports the same premise by MSN:
And now there are numbers to support it more. Supply and demand sets prices. It seems that Jeep, and many other manufactures, misread something. And they are supposed to be pros, to be able to see over the horizon a little. Did they believe the “new normal” BS too?

Around here Wagoneers sell well. You hardly ever se e Grand Wagoneer. Let's see how well $90k 392s and $75k V6 Rubicon Xs sell.
 

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I'd take those figures with a grain of salt. Jeep is likely the vehicle most impacted by Covid front running. Getting in a Jeep and driving out to the middle of nowhere was the one of the few things that was perfectly safe to do during the pandemic. If you were inclined to do that and you could, you did. Because there was little else to do. In my area there was a huge increase in the amount of people encountered in the wilderness during the pandemic and many new Jeeps.

Now there are more options for things to do. The incentive to buy a new Jeep now has certainly decreased as a result. Most either already got their Jeep and there is no need to replace it or you were never inclined to get one in the first place. That in itself will cause a reduction of demand now.
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