Arrests possibly related to how weaponized virus arrived in Wuhan ...

[vavaroutsos]

Some interesting info here that fits with other information in this thread.

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[nerubi]

I always come to this section when I need a good laugh.

 

[vavaroutsos]

I always come to this section when I need a good laugh.

I wasn't claiming sars-cov-2 was weaponized, as I don't think it was. However, there are far too many coincidences indicating something happened at the level 4 bio containment facility in Wuhan. I also have first hand knowledge that China new about it months before they let on, and already had some people in quarantine.

 

[oceanblue2019]

I wasn't claiming sars-cov-2 was weaponized, as I don't think it was. However, there are far too many coincidences indicating something happened at the level 4 bio containment facility in Wuhan. I also have first hand knowledge that China new about it months before they let on, and already had some people in quarantine.

Also a few more facts now well reported in he US:

- Dr Shi Zhengli was working on bat Coronavirus research in the US and we closed the program down in the US in 2014 for being too dangerous. She returned to China to continue her research in Wuhan. The bats are brought to Wuhan lab from hundreds of miles away to be studied. It is also very possible that a bat carrying the natural virus being studied at the lab escapes or infected a person. They have had 2 prior situations where SARS has escaped this lab.

- China death rates way higher then reported. Our work colleagues in China are reporting people who have just vanished. We have 130 people out of 880 employees who have not come back to work and not responding to attempts to contact them. Perhaps some have run back into the countryside to get away or perhaps still in treatment. Or perhaps gone.

- China tests kits are about 30% accurate for identifying COVID19. So a shit pile of false negatives! This was confirmed in Italy, Spain, and Denmark as the China test kids they got were tested.

- China had a 80% asymptotic rate. 4 out of 5 people who had it showed no symptoms.

- China government is now banning COVID19 research and any publications from those internally who were involved in the response.

Can you say cover-up?

 

[AVENTUS]

Also a few more facts now well reported in he US:

- Dr Shi Zhengli was working on bat Coronavirus research in the US and we closed the program down in the US in 2014 for being too dangerous. She returned to China to continue her research in Wuhan. The bats are brought to Wuhan lab from hundreds of miles away to be studied. It is also very possible that a bat carrying the natural virus being studied at the lab escapes or infected a person. They have had 2 prior situations where SARS has escaped this lab.

- China death rates way higher then reported. Our work colleagues in China are reporting people who have just vanished. We have 130 people out of 880 employees who have not come back to work and not responding to attempts to contact them. Perhaps some have run back into the countryside to get away or perhaps still in treatment. Or perhaps gone.

- China tests kits are about 30% accurate for identifying COVID19. So a shit pile of false negatives! This was confirmed in Italy, Spain, and Denmark as the China test kids they got were tested.

- China had a 80% asymptotic rate. 4 out of 5 people who had it showed no symptoms.

- China government is now banning COVID19 research and any publications from those internally who were involved in the response.

Can you say cover-up?

Great post brother.

 

[Goin2drt]

Watch a great movie while in quarantine called "Wag the Dog" and you tell me this whole thing is all legit and just happened.

 

[Gee-pah]

I consider myself open minded enough to allow reasonable monies be spent by the US Government to investigate the possibility that human intervention was involved in the creation of COVID-19, with limited finger pointing before such studies are complete.

But I will be no means sit in shock if, after thorough unbiased research, it is found that once every 100 years or so, mother nature just throws us a curve, and produces a virus with attributes that excel at the ability to transfer itself, including being asymptomatic in some initial or continually, while manifesting terribly outcomes in others.

Any government hell bent on producing such things for weaponization also realizes the distinct possibility that they could destroy (part of) themselves in doing so, and how difficult it is to release it on others without initial self-contamination.

Think about this in terms of a firearm--and I know that analogy is highly flawed. Would, as a government leader, you spend money on an extremely effective gun that every 20 rounds or so just decided to malfunction, destroying its shooter in the process, let alone the risk of being discovered by the international community doing this? These are the types of actions that if discovered find former leaders, best case scenario, exiled by their populous, or worse case killed.

 

[Gee-pah]

Let’s work with your assumption that after creating the perfect virus that an entity has contained it: both from a viral and media standpoint, before developing an anecdote.

The last thing that entity wants is to be discovered doing that; which is almost certain to happen when inoculating their own potentially exposed ground zero populous, even in societies as closed off as North Korea, let alone ones far more relatively open like China.

unless these countries have access to nuclear missle firing submarines that can survive a preemptive first strike, their failure to divulge the anecdote may result in their destruction.

there is nothing more that a political leader wants than to remain in power as the seek to broaden their power. Absence of either their lives or that of their populous threatens that.

I believe these facts minimize the scenario you describe.

 

[oceanblue2019]

Let’s work with your assumption that after creating the perfect virus that an entity has contained it: both from a viral and media standpoint, before developing an anecdote.

The last thing that entity wants is to be discovered doing that; which is almost certain to happen when inoculating their own potentially exposed ground zero populous, even in societies as closed off as North Korea, let alone ones far more relatively open like China.

unless these countries have access to nuclear missle firing submarines that can survive a preemptive first strike, their failure to divulge the anecdote may result in their destruction.

there is nothing more that a political leader wants than to remain in power as the seek to broaden their power. Absence of either their lives or that of their populous threatens that.

I believe these facts minimize the scenario you describe.

The Wuhan lab, and one of the lead doctors, was (as she has been missing for over 6 weeks now we must assume she was part of the cleanup) the world expert in bat born viruses. They are known to capture bats from all over China and surrounding regions for research and study.

I don't think it was deliberate but just incompetence. As stated above SAR's was accidentally released from the Wuhan lab during their research into it to the public twice due to incompetence in the past several years. In both cases it was contained and deaths limited.

They probably were researching some new bat born virus they found in the wild somewhere and it was again just simple incompetence that released it into the wild and it first surfaced at the wet market not so far away. Perhaps it was human infection that left the lab that spread it, or perhaps the bat itself got free and ended up at that market, or perhaps just some virus was carried on one of the researches to the lab and somehow jumped to patient-0.

This same doctor was researching in the US until it was deemed it was just too dangerous to allow to continue when she went back to China.

 

[Gee-pah]

The Wuhan lab, and one of the lead doctors, was (as she has been missing for over 6 weeks now we must assume she was part of the cleanup) the world expert in bat born viruses. They are known to capture bats from all over China and surrounding regions for research and study.

I don't think it was deliberate but just incompetence. As stated above SAR's was accidentally released from the Wuhan lab during their research into it to the public twice due to incompetence in the past several years. In both cases it was contained and deaths limited.

They probably were researching some new bat born virus they found in the wild somewhere and it was again just simple incompetence that released it into the wild and it first surfaced at the wet market not so far away. Perhaps it was human infection that left the lab that spread it, or perhaps the bat itself got free and ended up at that market, or perhaps just some virus was carried on one of the researches to the lab and somehow jumped to patient-0.

This same doctor was researching in the US until it was deemed it was just too dangerous to allow to continue when she went back to China.

John: I agree with you, both for the reasons you cite, even if not a smoking gun, and the near fact that China wasn't as forthcoming to the rest of the world regarding their own initial COVID-19 experiences--facts that if known earlier could have saved lives--that investigation of these events is in order as a bipartisan apolitical effort that seeks to assign blame where it fairly deserves to be, and not one that is done to take focus off any agency/country, be it the US, the WHO, or others, as to how they might have done a better job with the situation handed them. Whether blatant incompetence or simple missteps reveal themselves, every entity can learn from this going forward and improve.

If irresponsibilty on China's part, more than malintent, as your comments suggest, may prove to be the case, while severe and reprehensible, to a small extent it would be have to be examined within the context of some State's stupid decisions to not only reopen, in part, right now, but what businesses they've declared essential.

Not only are businesses like professional wrestling (FL) not essential--much as I appreciate the people that business feeds and serves to take minds off the pandemic, but to open areas without first having abundant testing and contact tracing infrastructure in place, using as a metric whether 2 weeks later ERs once again become flooded, is much like testing old military ordinance for danger of explosion by hitting it with a hammer.

By no means am I heartless to the small businesses that make most of our economy, and how hard they have been hit by this. Even if the virus went away tomorrow, such businesses' ability to thrive is dependent upon the disposable income many don't have right now to make purchases with to such organizations.

 

[oceanblue2019]

Interesting additional info keeps coming out...... You will need Google Translate if you don't understand German but basically Chinese diplomats have tried to get Germany to make false statements on how well China managed the COVID response.

So the cover up continues by trying to get others to help.

https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/covi...rsuche-wegen.1939.de.html?drn:news_id=1124504

 

[Gee-pah]

Interesting additional info keeps coming out...... You will need Google Translate if you don't understand German but basically Chinese diplomats have tried to get Germany to make false statements on how well China managed the COVID response.

So the cover up continues by trying to get others to help.

https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/covi...rsuche-wegen.1939.de.html?drn:news_id=1124504

John : these are important points and I'm glad you're noting them.

But that said, we need to draw a distinction between a) whether China was responsible for creating this virus with premeditated malintent, carelessness, or as simply "innocent" first victims, and your above point: b) how they sought to cover up its severity afterwards--which the world community has already determined was wrong--it's just the degree we don't yet understand.

I am putting quotes around the word "innocent" because I don't want to cross the line of challenging people's culture or way of life. But countries around the world, irrespective of ideology, ethnicity, religion or other attributes have agreed that infection, which knows no such distinctions, is best contained using some universal practices regarding the testing, raising, destroying, preparing and dispensing of food product that too many Chinese markets (e.g. wet ones) don't follow.

I don't wish to single out the Chinese on this latter point. Other countries who adopt similar practices would also need to change, and there are plenty of food preparation practices here in the US worthy of reconsideration from how we treat this industry's workers, to regulations and stringent enforcement of same.

 

[oceanblue2019]

John : these are important points and I'm glad you're noting them.

But that said, we need to draw a distinction between a) whether China was responsible for creating this virus with premeditated malintent, carelessness, or as simply "innocent" first victims, and your above point: b) how they sought to cover up its severity afterwards--which the world community has already determined was wrong--it's just the degree we don't yet understand.

I am putting quotes around the word "innocent" because I don't want to cross the line of challenging people's culture or way of life. But countries around the world, irrespective of ideology, ethnicity, religion or other attributes have agreed that infection, which knows no such distinctions, is best contained using some universal practices regarding the testing, raising, destroying, preparing and dispensing of food product that too many Chinese markets (e.g. wet ones) don't follow.

I don't wish to single out the Chinese on this latter point. Other countries who adopt similar practices would also need to change, and there are plenty of food preparation practices here in the US worthy of reconsideration from how we treat this industry's workers, to regulations and stringent enforcement of same.

But why do we need to determine which?

If it was a mistake/accident they had plenty of time to come clean and disclose. But by not doing so the situation we are all facing has become a deliberate act. They are completely responsible for the deaths and economic melt down across the globe.

In November it could have been "Hey we got a problem we don't fully understand and need some help...." but instead they start to disappear anyone who's reporting on the situation.

I hope to hell the world holds them fully responsible and accountable.

 

[Gee-pah]

But why do we need to determine which?

If it was a mistake/accident they had plenty of time to come clean and disclose. But by not doing so the situation we are all facing has become a deliberate act. They are completely responsible for the deaths and economic melt down across the globe.

In November it could have been "Hey we got a problem we don't fully understand and need some help...." but instead they start to disappear anyone who's reporting on the situation.

I hope to hell the world holds them fully responsible and accountable.

I hope so too. But to hold them accountable in the responsible way they weren't requires us to determine the extent of the misinformation.

Failure to disclose to the international community the extent of a viral problem that say, fell into China's lap simply as a product of bad luck is bad, but not as bad as if it wasn't simply bad luck that they were ground zero.

And if it wasn't bad luck, to what extent was it not? Was it as mild as simply not adhering to Western standards of cleanliness, or was it failure to operate under international protocols for viral contaminants as a result of non-weapons based scientific research gone bad, or was viral containment failures the product of weapons based research?

Answers to these questions are required or else we could risk, said in metaphors, beheading someone for what might just be a parking ticket.

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