Anyone think Jeep will move to IFS in 2023?

[vegasblue]

I personally moved from a 4Runner to a JLUR for all the reasons Majestic says don't factor so realistically I just think you need to move because it's not the vehicle choice that sucks, but the wheeling where you live.

Sponsored

 

[Majestic]

I personally moved from a 4Runner to a JLUR for all the reasons Majestic says don't factor so realistically I just think you need to move because it's not the vehicle choice that sucks, but the wheeling where you live.

I’ve been to Vegas 4 times in the last year. Hard pass.

 

[vegasblue]

I’ve been to Vegas 4 times in the last year. Hard pass.

1000%. This is where water comes to die. I don't wheel much here, pretty boring minus Logandale. Ohhhh looook! Rocks...and dirt. Oh sh*t! More rocks...and dirt. Sigh...... Circumstance is the only reason I'm here. In baby talk, it's kaka.

 

[Majestic]

1000%. This is where water comes to die. I don't wheel much here, pretty boring minus Logandale. Ohhhh looook! Rocks...and dirt. Oh sh*t! More rocks...and dirt. Sigh...... Circumstance is the only reason I'm here. In baby talk, it's kaka.

I feel for you.
Good news is you’re between Zion, Grand Canyon and Death Valley which is what I use Vegas as a jumping off point for, but Vegas itself and the surrounding immediate area look…well. I wasn’t sure if I was looking at “nature” or construction debris.

Seriously though, did you actually like break a steering knuckle in Canyonlands or something in your 4 Runner and decide to go Jeep or did you just want to participate in Jeep Jamboree?

 

[jeepingib]

99% of Jeep buyers buy them because they look cool. IFS is more comfortable, handles and tracks better on the highway, has higher clearance, and your own words more stable, that’s why it’s on minivans and Humvees. Well, pretty much everything except the Jeep.

More stable for a higher center of gravity. You keep trying to relate to something that is in an entirely different class. And higher clearance is misleading, as it will have less clearance over bumps as the frame comes down as the tires go up. And yes, it's on everything but Jeeps, and that's precisely the point! You can get it on any other vehicle out there. But fools won't be happy until the Wrangler is just like every other boring SUV.

 

[Majestic]

More stable for a higher center of gravity. You keep trying to relate to something that is in an entirely different class. And higher clearance is misleading, as it will have less clearance over bumps as the frame comes down as the tires go up. And yes, it's on everything but Jeeps, and that's precisely the point! You can get it on any other vehicle out there. But fools won't be happy until the Wrangler is just like every other boring SUV.

It’s more stable regardless where the Cg is. That’s why it’s used for everything from 8x8’s to Cadillacs. The ground clearance on IFS is never going to drop lower on a bump than lowest point of the pumpkin on a solid axle.
You’re reaching man.

The solid axle doesn’t make a Jeep exiting anymore than the fold down windshield nobody uses. What makes it different is it’s the only convertible doorless SUV in the world. Well was anyway.

 

[2nd 392]

1000%. This is where water comes to die. I don't wheel much here, pretty boring minus Logandale. Ohhhh looook! Rocks...and dirt. Oh sh*t! More rocks...and dirt. Sigh...... Circumstance is the only reason I'm here. In baby talk, it's kaka.

Off subject, but my mother’s family (Clark) were early settlers , massive land holdings (Clark county) . Huge proponents of the dam, my grandfather was an engineer during construction. Now no water. The land was taken for taxes when he passed (possibly before) I was very young ( the last reference I have is from her brother and he was in the hospital dated 53) l was told it almost caused a divorce when my father said “let them have it there’s nothing but rocks and rattlesnakes on it” she was right! Reflections of a could have been multi millionaire had they paid the taxes ( land holdings but little money)

 

[DaveNH]

I dunno. I read over the EPA site and looks like they still group passenger vehicles and heavy trucks separate.
https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations/corporate-average-fuel-economy

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...ars-2024-2026-passenger-cars-and-light-trucks

As in the CAFE and CO2 rulemakings in 2010, 2012, and 2020, NHTSA is establishing attribute-based CAFE standards defined by a mathematical function of vehicle footprint, which has observable correlation with fuel economy. EPCA, as amended by EISA, expressly requires that CAFE standards for passenger cars and light trucks be based on one or more vehicle attributes related to fuel economy and be expressed in the form of a mathematical function.

Thus, the final standards (and regulatory alternatives) take the form of fuel economy targets expressed as functions of vehicle footprint (the product of vehicle wheelbase and average track width) that are separate for passenger cars and light trucks. Chapter 1.2.3 of the TSD discusses in detail NHTSA's continued reliance on footprint as the relevant attribute on which these standards are based.

Under the footprint-based standards, the function defines a fuel economy performance target for each unique footprint combination within a car or truck model type. Using the functions, each manufacturer thus will have a CAFE average standard for each year that is almost certainly unique to each of its fleets, based upon the footprints and production volumes of the vehicle models produced by that manufacturer. A manufacturer will have separate footprint-based standards for cars and for trucks, consistent with 49 U.S.C. 32902(b)'s direction that NHTSA must set separate standards for cars and for trucks. The functions are mostly sloped, so that generally, larger vehicles (i.e., vehicles with larger footprints) will be subject to lower mpg targets than smaller vehicles. This is because, generally speaking, smaller vehicles are more capable of achieving higher levels of fuel economy, mostly because they tend not to have to work as hard (and therefore require as much energy) to perform their driving task.

 

[jeepingib]

It’s more stable regardless where the Cg is. That’s why it’s used for everything from 8x8’s to Cadillacs. The ground clearance on IFS is never going to drop lower on a bump than lowest point of the pumpkin on a solid axle.
You’re reaching man.

The solid axle doesn’t make a Jeep exiting anymore than the fold down windshield nobody uses. What makes it different is it’s the only convertible doorless SUV in the world. Well was anyway.

Let's try to break this down Barney style for the kids in the back of the class that haven't been paying attention.

In this image you can see that the control arms and frame are nearly parallel at ride height. As the Bronco encounters an obstacle the tires move up into the wheel wells and the frame moves towards the ground. Depending on the speed traveling over the obstacle. This will result in scraping in low clearance situations and is extremely common when people go wheeling with IFS.

Conversely when a solid axle vehicle as you encounter an obstacle the entire axle is raised along with the frame and the clearance increases.

If you only want a convertible SUV then you might want to look at the 2014 Nissan Murano CrossCabriolet. It seems like a better fit for your needs.

 

[jeepingib]

Oh, and you keep referencing Military trucks and independent suspension like it's some ace up your sleeve, do you realize that most of our trucks are still solid axle, and that the ones that are solid axle are more capable than the ones that are not? You mentioned 8x8 which to me means a HEMTT.

It’s the truck we rely on to go get all the other broken trucks. 4 solid axles.

 

[LooselyHeldPlans]

You think 4 compact aluminum electric motors will weigh more than two steel axles? They won't. Unsprung weight will be significantly reduced.

You're not counting the value in a smart suspension and drivetrain. Suspension that doesn't only react to physical forces upon it but also maintains orientation. Off-camber won't be off-camber anymore. A drivetrain that always applies even torque across off wheels and never binds. The cost comes in designing it, not producing it.

Jeep will have to design it or someone else will and defeat the king.

I believe the way the new hummers do it will become the gold standard in the electric age..

 

[BrierPatch]

Trying to get this thread back on track.

I think there has been a big and simple oversight about SFA vs. IFS. History has already proven and answered this question for us as a FACT and not just someone bloviating. The ford bronco came out with a SFA, they changed it to an IFS and it died. It didn't steal all the Jeep customers, Jeep didn't come out with their own version. Jeep just stayed tried and true to what works and what the people said they wanted, and the Jeep continued to live on quite peacefully. Now we see the bronco come back as a Jeep clone, but with IFS. My prediction isn't that Jeep will switch to IFS, but Ford will come out with a SFA bronco, or just kill it again like they did the last time.

Yes, that last sentence was meant to poke at with a sharp stick.

 

[Jtphoto]

For the record.
https://www.autoweek.com/news/a1900396/army-jeep-not-dead-its-just-meaner-and-heavier/

 

[Bryce]

Trying to get this thread back on track.

I think there has been a big and simple oversight about SFA vs. IFS. History has already proven and answered this question for us as a FACT and not just someone bloviating. The ford bronco came out with a SFA, they changed it to an IFS and it died. It didn't steal all the Jeep customers, Jeep didn't come out with their own version. Jeep just stayed tried and true to what works and what the people said they wanted, and the Jeep continued to live on quite peacefully. Now we see the bronco come back as a Jeep clone, but with IFS. My prediction isn't that Jeep will switch to IFS, but Ford will come out with a SFA bronco, or just kill it again like they did the last time.

Yes, that last sentence was meant to poke at with a sharp stick.

Well, by the time the Bronco went IFS (TTB Twin Traction Beam to be exact) it was based on the F150 and lasted from 1980 to 1996. So I wouldn't really say going IFS/TTB just up and killed the Bronco. 16 years and 3 generations of a vehicle is a pretty good run.

Ford killed it after the OJ incident and because they wanted a 4 door after the success of the Explorer, so they came out with the Expedition.

After 1977, the Bronco was more competition fir the K5 Blazer than the Jeep.

Sorry... took it right off track again.

Oh ya, and as for TTB versions of IFS its not really more stabile or handles better than SFA. It is tough as nails though.

 

[BrierPatch]

Well, by the time the Bronco went IFS (TTB Twin Traction Beam to be exact) it was based on the F150 and lasted from 1980 to 1996. So I wouldn't really say going IFS/TTB just up and killed the Bronco. 16 years and 3 generations of a vehicle is a pretty good run.

Ford killed it after the OJ incident and because they wanted a 4 door after the success of the Explorer, so they came out with the Expedition.

After 1977, the Bronco was more competition fir the K5 Blazer than the Jeep.

Sorry... took it right off track again.

Oh ya, and as for TTB versions of IFS its not really more stabile or handles better than SFA. It is tough as nails though.

I think bronco sales went up after the OJ thing, but I don't blame them using it as an excuse and saying they wanted to step up to something bigger. We can all speculate and conjecture what and why, but in the end the bronco died and Jeep didn't. My guess is the obvious, that they were disconnected from their customer base and their improvements and changes to the model failed to meet their target audiences desires and sales ultimately dropped. It seems like Jeep stayed more true to it's roots and customers continued to support it. Sometimes, if ain't broke, don't fix it. I'm glad Jeep has been more in tune with it's customer base for so long and hope it continues. Although they did put square headlights on it once. What were they thinking?

Oh, I do agree with you though, that the bronco seemed more like it was in competition to the K blazer, but the blazer died too. Funny, it started with a SFA, did it switch to IFS before it was killed also? I really think GM should have seen what Jeep and Ford were doing and brought the blazer back similar to like what Ford did with the bronco.

Sponsored