Anyone think Jeep will move to IFS in 2023?

[Old Jeeper]

My requirements are a 4 door convertible SUV which leaves me with Jeep and Bronco. Bronco’s are so backordered and dealers are charging ADM so that makes the solid front axle more palatable. The JL 4 door Wrangler is the soccer mom vehicle of choice where I live. Don’t get me wrong, the doors do come off around here, but 98% of the time they’re used to drop off kids at school and “wheeling” means driving over a curb at the Starbucks drug through (almost curbed a wheel back there but the KO2’s took it like a champ). We use rock rails to protect our Jeeps from shopping carts at Costco. It’s the Wild West out there.

I’m actually disappointed my only choice of seats are cloth and leather. I leave the roof off but it can rain at a moments notice so having soggy seats and funky smelling carpet isn’t desirable. It’s strange that Jeep doesn’t offer a rubberized floor and marine grade vinyl seats when it’s the more appropriate material for it’s intended use.

Wrangler would honestly be dead if it wasn’t for the 4 door JK. It’s the soccer moms that you can thank for being able to buy a Jeep at all now.

Seriously though each Jeep generation thinks the newest ones are too ”luxe”, but in reality, when a Land Rover or a Porsche is cheaper than a wrangler, you have to ask what it is exactly you’re paying for,

I am 2 dr right down the line, its SWB Jeep for me and I think Jeep is down to only 2 models with 2 dr?? Not many anymore, shame...if they phase out the 2 door completely then and only then will things change for the worse IMO. Guess its ok, been driving them for 57 years and had my fun...

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[Majestic]

This topic has been discussed for decades. It always pops up every so often. The problem I see is the customer base is changing. With higher demand of more people wanting to identify with the Jeep lifestyle, Jeeps have gotten so expensive. It is not practical for many to have a $40-50K vehicle as a weekend toy, so Jeeps are becoming more main stream and more of a daily driver. I think Jeep is trying to balance the line of keeping the JL offroad capable vs on road comfort and trying to meet the largest customer base possible. So far I think they are doing a pretty good job. The problem is, a lot of the new Jeep owners don't understand what a Jeep is made for. It is a purpose built off road vehicle. It is not intended to be driven fast, it's not intended to be a luxury highway cruiser. I think this is why we hear so many complaints from newer owners because they didn't know what they were getting into. Unfortunately, Jeep is going to go where the money is, and I hope there will always be enough customer base to support the Jeep for what it's intended purpose is. I think this is why so many of us defend the Jeep and the SFA, because it is the only vehicle of it's kind and we really don't want to lose it. I'm actually glad Ford made the Bronco especially with IFS (by the way, the Ford bronco is not a bronco, it's Ford's version of a Jeep). The competition is good for Jeep and it gives people a choice. Hopefully we will have fewer Jeep owners wanting to change the Jeep to IFS because they can get it in a bronco now.

Right in the money with a lot of this. I’m a frequent Jeep apologist and have been since I bought my first one about 9 years ago. I’m roughly Jeep and Bronco’s demographic they’re shooting for. Upper middle class suburban dwelling parent who’s clinging onto their youth. I always get a Rubicon even if I haven’t used a locker in my life. It just looks so much better than the Sahara and I usually get every dollar back in resell.
Keep in mind that true off-roaders are more frequent in this forum than in real life. I’d say 99% of us real owners don’t need or want a solid front axle. We didn’t have any other choices until now. That’s not the same thing as demanding it. Like the folding windshield nobody uses, it won’t be missed by the vast majority.
It’s hard to claim it’s needed for real off-roading when video after video show Broncos getting by just fine without it.

The one thing I think you’re wrong on is the new Bronco is a modern recreation of the old “Jeep style” Bronco from the 60’s not the OJ Bronco which is what I think you’re thinking of.

 

[Majestic]

I am 2 dr right down the line, its SWB Jeep for me and I think Jeep is down to only 2 models with 2 dr?? Not many anymore, shame...if they phase out the 2 door completely then and only then will things change for the worse IMO. Guess its ok, been driving them for 57 years and had my fun...

I hear what you’re saying. I prefer two doors myself but my lifestyle dictates a 4 door. If it wasn’t for the 4 door I wouldn’t be able to get a Jeep at all. Since I’m apparently in the same boat as the vast majority of other Jeep owners, the 2 door is finding a smaller and smaller market. It doesn’t help that not only is it not practical, but it’s not cheap either.

 

[Old Jeeper]

I hear what you’re saying. I prefer two doors myself but my lifestyle dictates a 4 door. If it wasn’t for the 4 door I wouldn’t be able to get a Jeep at all. Since I’m apparently in the same boat as the vast majority of other Jeep owners, the 2 door is finding a smaller and smaller market. It doesn’t help that not only is it not practical, but it’s not cheap either.

My 2003 TJ Ruibicon with every single option except an auto trans I drove out just under $23k! Shopping dealers now on a 2023 Rubicon and by build-out is $60,205 MSRP...KRAZY

 

[BrierPatch]

The one thing I think you’re wrong on is the new Bronco is a modern recreation of the old “Jeep style” Bronco from the 60’s not the OJ Bronco which is what I think you’re thinking of.

I'm good with that. I knew I was taking a small shot at the bronco. Wasn't really thinking about a specific year, more of the 4 door soft top and few other features.
I actually saw an older bronco, probably 70s or 80s going down the road the other day. Totally restored and lifted. Looked really good. I'm admittedly a jeep guy, ever since my first CJ7, but can always appreciate the class and sport for which our vehicles are built for. I mean, is a tube buggy still a jeep? I don't know, guess I really don't care we can all still enjoy and share the sport. By the way I did give the bronco a jeep wave.

 

[Jtphoto]

IF you are deadly serious about the world of rocks, nothing beats a TJ and that straight 6. I put almost 100k mi on my '03 Rubicon. I found one a few months back, box stock, '03 Rubi, std trans, 43XX miles. I could not get there fast enough it was in Miami listed at $43k, told them I take it and they said there was another guy who was on his way and who ever showed up first with $43 got it and he beat me to the dealer.

What makes the TJ so great is the LACK of electronics except for what you need. Then the engine and I bolted on an SC on mine since I drove to everyplace in the US I wheeled, no trailer...folks who trailer, do so because it breaks! Adding an SC gave me the juice I needed on the highway, I could run 70+.

The other thing with the TJ is the "tricks" ohhh boy, the TJ is a jeep you can modify and it responds in spades.

That was also the nice thing about the 3.8L JK. Less electronics, lots of mods available and you could run a Supercharger on it for hundreds of thousands of miles without issue. 3.6 doesn’t like superchargers and 2011 up had too much added electronics. The 2007-2010 could also be stripped down and run with basic engine electrical only.

 

[Jtphoto]

That’s fake news unfortunately. 200k Jeeps a year was thanks to the 4 door, not it’s off-road prowess. Ford just started making ing to drift toward Bronco. I haven’t found a review yet that favors the Jeep over the Bronco.

The point is moot whether or not it’s 2dr 4dr or off-road prowess. They have been selling over 200k units a year for over 12 years “with a straight axle” ..
And if you haven’t found a review that favored the Wrangler then you haven’t been looking. There are a lot out there.
Face it Ford F’d up and wrote cheques it couldn’t cash. While Ford is wallowing in Covid excuse, Jeep is still pumping out 200k + Wranglers. If it wasn’t for supply chain issues they may have produced a lot more.
Ford failed on a lot of fronts. How many customers still don’t have their initial order? How many defective Broncos still on dirt mountain? Yet their trying to get people to order these new more expensive models.

 

[Majestic]

The point is moot whether or not it’s 2dr 4dr or off-road prowess. They have been selling over 200k units a year for over 12 years “with a straight axle” ..
And if you haven’t found a review that favored the Wrangler then you haven’t been looking. There are a lot out there.
Face it Ford F’d up and wrote cheques it couldn’t cash. While Ford is wallowing in Covid excuse, Jeep is still pumping out 200k + Wranglers. If it wasn’t for supply chain issues they may have produced a lot more.
Ford failed on a lot of fronts. How many customers still don’t have their initial order? How many defective Broncos still on dirt mountain? Yet their trying to get people to order these new more expensive models.

Ford does a lot of stuff wrong but every manufacturer that came up with a popular new design in the past 3 years is on the production struggle bus but that doesn’t meN they’re bad cars. It means it’s too good and they can’t keep up with demand.
They have been selling 200k Jeeps a year with straight axles, but it’s not because of the axle that people were buying them. It’s because it filled a niche that nobody else was filling,
98% of Jeep owners don’t take their Jeeps off-road and of the ones that do, 99% of them don’t need a solid front axle to go off-road. Getting stuck in mud or driving on the beach just needs 4x4 and ground clearance.

 

[unsavory]

Ford does a lot of stuff wrong but every manufacturer that came up with a popular new design in the past 3 years is on the production struggle bus but that doesn’t meN they’re bad cars. It means it’s too good and they can’t keep up with demand.
They have been selling 200k Jeeps a year with straight axles, but it’s not because of the axle that people were buying them. It’s because it filled a niche that nobody else was filling,
98% of Jeep owners don’t take their Jeeps off-road and of the ones that do, 99% of them don’t need a solid front axle to go off-road. Getting stuck in mud or driving on the beach just needs 4x4 and ground clearance.

This is unfortunately, true. There aren't 200K new rock crawlers being sold every year, flooding our natural forests. There are 200K new mall crawlers per year flooding the parking lots.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[The Last Cowboy]

They make excellent used Jeeps for those who want to build them. Face it, we need the mall crawlers so that Wranglers continue to be built and for the used ones to bring more people into the fold.

 

[Majestic]

They make excellent used Jeeps for those who want to build them. Face it, we need the mall crawlers so that Wranglers continue to be built and for the used ones to bring more people into the fold.

The biggest problem with used Jeeps is they cost the same as new Jeeps. I never thought I’d buy a new car in my life till I discovered the used Jeep market.

 

[Jtphoto]

Everything used, that’s in decent shape right now is expensive. But Wranglers have always had good resale value even before Covid. I traded my 2008 Sahara in on a 2018 in 2018. 10 years old With 321,000klm, I paid $32k cdn for the 2008 new and got $17k cdn trade in.

 

[2nd 392]

Hope you

Just off the wire, total sales for the first half of the year are down with 3 exceptions: Corvette +17k units, Chrysler + 66k units, 58k were the Pacifica (I got NO idea what that is) the balance was Jeeps. This is as of 30 Jun.

Reading thru your post I am not sure Jeeps are a good fit for you and by the way Leather seats are an option.

The modern Jeep, prob arrived with the YJ but the real Jeep that caught the attention of Jeepers was the TJ and then the Rubicon. The Rubicon put Jeep on the map with a big star.

As long as management knows what makes a Jeep a Jeep it will continue on as-is: Solid Axles F/R, Fold-down windshield and take-off doors. Take those away and you might as well buy a Camary.

Bronco is what is because of Jeep.

I remember when Jeep sales were lucky to hit 25k in a year and doors were an option. When MB merged with Chrysler, the number one thing was to kill or sell Jeep. Then someone told MB that Jeep was the most profitable vehicle made in the US. What Jeep did not have was Volume! Then some young engineers talked mgt into a Jeep called the Rubicon, called that because that was the standard to which it would be built. Do the Rubicon trail in OEM form. So what got was a 4:1 transfer case and std trans that came out of the Dodge truck line IIRC. Then they sourced a set of lockers from Japan. It was to a one-time on-off and not more than 25k units over the remaining model year of the TJ, which was scheduled to be replaced in 2007, it was not expected for the Rubicon to live on.

But what happened was they sold all 25k units in 2003 and the rest is history.

Yes, the Jeep today is a world apart from the TJ, which in my opinion is the best wheeling platform ever built. Starting with the JK its been a road to a life of luxe in your Jeep but they kept its capability. Now if only Jeep can deliver on AC-cooled seats like on my F 450 King Ranch I would be happier.

I have wheeled around the world, literally and there is nothing that can compete OVERALL across all forms of beyond the curb like the Jeep.

If you want a Bronco get it, IMO its a GREAT rig. But even my wife said NO, its not a Jeep and she is a Jeep girl going back to TJs, now she is on her 2nd Glady.

Sadly Jeep I am being told is phasing out the 2 door and for me that means there is NO MORE Jeep. I tried the 4 in Rubicon Hard Rock trim and dumped it 3 mo later, after driving Jeeps for 57 years 4 doors don't cut it.

Hope you heard wrong about the 2 dr. That said, every new model has been larger, and also more on road friendly starting with the mid-model stretched, hard top, doors and engines capable of comfortable hwy speeds for the CJ5. They are responding to demand (now complaints about screen size, no air conditioned seats and no auto-up electric windows , no power seats, no IFS,etc etc). Most importantly the need/want of room, myself included, I managed to get a 93 year old parent with walker in the back seat after a struggle, will only be used in emergency situations without alternative transportation. Also ~57 year driver. Edit- although the Buick V6 came in 66 the 53 vintage Hurricane was standard Until 71) correction- hardtop was on the 10in longer CJ7 variant

 

[Jtphoto]

Ford does a lot of stuff wrong but every manufacturer that came up with a popular new design in the past 3 years is on the production struggle bus but that doesn’t meN they’re bad cars. It means it’s too good and they can’t keep up with demand.
They have been selling 200k Jeeps a year with straight axles, but it’s not because of the axle that people were buying them. It’s because it filled a niche that nobody else was filling,


98% of Jeep owners don’t take their Jeeps off-road and of the ones that do, 99% of them don’t need a solid front axle to go off-road. Getting stuck in mud or driving on the beach just needs 4x4 and ground clearance.

You make it sound like there’s no competition out there for Jeep. What happened to all the Toyota, Nissan, Landrovers.. Did they just disappear. They all have the basic platform and tools that the Bronco has and IFS. If Jeep held a niche market all by itself it’s only for 2 things, straight axle and the top comes off, all the other manufactures have everything else. Yes you are correct 200k people a year didn’t buy a Wrangler because it had SFA but they also didn’t care that it had SFA and bought it anyway. People buy it because it’s the best at what it does, people want that. Just like those that have to have a Rubicon yet it will never see a dirt road.

As for this whole discussion, this is not new. Back in 2015-16 FCA toyed with and had in fact an IFS concept Jeep. The new FCA had the idea of bringing out the JL with IFS it was widely trashed by the Jeep community and public opinion so corporate dropped the idea very quickly.

 

[Jimac]

My 2003 TJ Ruibicon with every single option except an auto trans I drove out just under $23k! Shopping dealers now on a 2023 Rubicon and by build-out is $60,205 MSRP...KRAZY

My first new jeep was a 1975 cj5 inline 6 3 speed manual soft top with heater and am radio (fully loaded!) $2,300 last new 2018 Jeep 2dr Rubicon (fully loaded) $50,000. Half a dozen in between. Always 2dr.

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