Anyone think Jeep will move to IFS in 2023?

[angrynewyorker]

the Jeep steering thing:
first time I drove a new TJ 25 years ago the wandering steering freaked me out a little but by the end of the test drive I was mostly used to it. Few weeks after I'd been driving my new TJ I couldn't remember why the steering had felt like a problem. All the new Jeeps I test drove felt the same.

When others would drive my TJ, if I didn't mention the steering thing, they'd ask "what's up with the steering?" I'd reassure them it was "correct" and they would stop thinking about it, get used to it, never think about it again. If I did mention it to them before they drove, it never bothered them.

This is why I believe (in general*) it's not a real problem, just a mismatched expectation. If something feels weird, wrong, unsettling, you'll notice and want to know what's up. Once you find out and realize that's what all steering felt like before rack-and-pinion, then you're fine.

All the JLs I test drove had exactly the excellent steering I expected to feel. But then I had my Jeep steering expectation in place. Not surprised if the sales guy has fielded a few alarmed questions from people driving the recirculating ball for the first time.

*No doubt some new Jeep somewhere has had wrong steering and needs to be fixed.

Well after retarded rulings like this one, its only a matter of time before someone sues Jeep for installing the wrong kind of front suspension
https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/j...-death-in-north-phoenix-arizona-supreme-court

Hopefully the rule of law and not emotions are used for the basis of a decision in trial court.

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[Jamrock]

My problems went away when my original POS steer box went away. Now it drives like a $&#%! Jeep and I love it.

What year Jeep do you have?

 

[VKSheridan]

Mine‘s a 2020 JL. The first thousand miles were akin to driving a semi pulling triples in an ice storm powered by shear winds. I was getting concerned that all the saw-toothing to keep it in lane would wear out my ball joints, elbows and usage of the F-Bomb. If one more person told me, “It’s a Jeep thing”, I swear I’d have been on the evening news……

Got the update done and now it drives like a friggin’ Jeep. Woo hoo!

 

[thegeedawg]

As a new Wrangler owner (and loving it BTW), I find this obsession to keep things the same so fascinating and so different to what you find from other auto forums. Most auto forums are all about pushing for updates and options, but wrangler people seem to be fighting to remain static for anything that isn't directly off-road related. Look through the forums, You'll find people ridiculed for opting to purchase Wranglers with modern conveniences, heck even a Wrangler with 4 doors was taboo for some time. These arguments never point to facts to support why the particular convenince is a problem, and they almost always end with "if you want those things, why don't you go buy truck X or SUV Y...". Why? Because I want a WRANGLER that's why!

Why the constant fight against creature comforts? The JL is the best Wrangler ever produced in capability, convenience and safety. It does so while retaining the Wrangler's core competency. These improvements/cake-and-eat-it-too updates occurred because Jeep was pushed to do it. Now there is something for everyone. There's even a pickup version called the JT. The Bronco may push Jeep to offer an IFS system.

That said, will someone please explain why having and IFS option is a bad thing for folks that love the Wrangler ruggedness, iconic looks, and fun factor, but are willing to give up marginally better off-road capability for significantly better/safer on-road capability?

 

[No IFS]

No chance

 

[2nd 392]

If we have to explain articulation = capabilities, you won’t understand. Virtually all the “competition” has IFS , you have many choices.

 

[jessedacri]

As a new Wrangler owner (and loving it BTW), I find this obsession to keep things the same so fascinating and so different to what you find from other auto forums. Most auto forums are all about pushing for updates and options, but wrangler people seem to be fighting to remain static for anything that isn't directly off-road related. Look through the forums, You'll find people ridiculed for opting to purchase Wranglers with modern conveniences, heck even a Wrangler with 4 doors was taboo for some time. These arguments never point to facts to support why the particular convenince is a problem, and they almost always end with "if you want those things, why don't you go buy truck X or SUV Y...". Why? Because I want a WRANGLER that's why!

Why the constant fight against creature comforts? The JL is the best Wrangler ever produced in capability, convenience and safety. It does so while retaining the Wrangler's core competency. These improvements/cake-and-eat-it-too updates occurred because Jeep was pushed to do it. Now there is something for everyone. There's even a pickup version called the JT. The Bronco may push Jeep to offer an IFS system.

That said, will someone please explain why having and IFS option is a bad thing for folks that love the Wrangler ruggedness, iconic looks, and fun factor, but are willing to give up marginally better off-road capability for significantly better/safer on-road capability?

Creature comforts and what's been added to the JL are in an entirely different category than swapping the Wrangler to IFS. I fully and wholeheartedly welcome the JL's improvements.

IFS defeats the entire purpose of the Wrangler. There are *plenty* of options out there especially nowadays for IFS vehicles should you want "safer on-road capability" but you frame this like it's wild that we don't want a good thing completely changed into something else. And what you're pitching is an *option*, something that is impossible to do with the volume of Wrangler sales. You're pitching a different vehicle entirely, which in this case shouldn't be called Wrangler. I think the "Bronco Sport" is the dumbest thing on the planet. Should have been called something else, just as the Renegade is.

The Wrangler shouldn't warp into something that it isn't for people who like the look only. If you're concerned about "safer on road capability", you should absolutely be looking at a different vehicle, full stop.

 

[kah.mun.rah]

With increasing pressure to compete with the Bronco, Toyota and others, is it inevitable that Jeep moves to IFS?

Jeep already has an IFS to compete with the Bronco. It's called a Renegade. You will need to wait until 2028 to see any large changes to the Wrangler but I would be extremely surprised if IFS is even on the list of considerations.

 

[Mocopo]

It all goes back to the money, if Jeep thinks it can make money off an IFS Wrangler, they'd do it. I don't think their sales are hurting at all by not having that as an option.

Edit: After thinking about it, I'd be more willing to bet that Jeep would come out with a redesigned Cherokee or Grand Cherokee that is meant to compete with the Bronco. They could even throw in retro styling that brings back the glory of the XJ days. They would heavily market that vehicle, just like Ford did with Bronco, in hopes that they'll be able to convert a generation of Wrangler owners.

 

[jessedacri]

It all goes back to the money, if Jeep thinks it can make money off an IFS Wrangler, they'd do it. I don't think their sales are hurting at all by not having that as an option.

Also, there's nothing less profitable than making IFS an "option" - that means sending an additional chassis type through crushingly expensive certifications for each country. These certifications are mostly the reason why the Gladiator and 2-door JL don't get nearly as many drivetrain variations as the hot seller 4-door JLU does, and is the same reason we don't get the 2-door Gladiator to production. No chance in the hot depths of hell are they able to pull off an IFS "option" as this changes the chassis type and requires each drivetrain configuration to be re-certified as a new vehicle. How to kill any chance of profits 101.

If they were to do it, they'd go all in, and they're not going to do that with the Wrangler.

On the flip side, what I think is sorely missing in the Jeep lineup is a Cherokee that is closer to what used to be offered with the XJ. It's now a sad road-going rental fleet vehicle these days indistinguishable from the Compass. I think a perfect addition to the lineup would be a Cherokee with IFS+solid rear D44 and a body designed so it doesn't look like every basic on-road crossover on the planet. Bring the Cherokee back. They could compete in this space without ever changing the wrangler.

 

[Mocopo]

On the flip side, what I think is sorely missing in the Jeep lineup is a Cherokee that is closer to what used to be offered with the XJ. It's now a sad road-going rental fleet vehicle these days indistinguishable from the Compass. I think a perfect addition to the lineup would be a Cherokee with IFS+solid rear D44 and a body designed so it doesn't look like every basic on-road crossover on the planet. Bring the Cherokee back. They could compete in this space without ever changing the wrangler.

Great minds!

 

[Zandcwhite]

That said, will someone please explain why having and IFS option is a bad thing for folks that love the Wrangler ruggedness, iconic looks, and fun factor, but are willing to give up marginally better off-road capability for significantly better/safer on-road capability?

I agree that creature comfort OPTIONS should 100% be available to the customer. I love the adaptive cruise control, power everything, hard top, 4 doors, heated seats, and especially the 8 speed auto in our 2019 JLUR. I appreciate that Jeep still sells a manual window, 2 door, stick shift, soft top, no AC option for the purists though. There are a whole bunch of problems with your train of thought though. If they go to IFS, it won’t be “an option”. No vehicle ever has had optional IFS. It either is solid axle or ifs period. You mention wrangler ruggedness and IFS in the same line, IFS diminishes the ruggedness period. Look at the broncos and tie rod failures, CV failures, etc. I think you have the last sentence flip flopped in my experience. IFS gives marginally better on road performance, does nothing for safety, and significantly hinders off-road capability. Not only is suspension travel massively limited, it gets worse when lifted. Short of a true long travel IFS like a raptor or trx, it just doesn’t flex. In order to package that kind of travel in to ifs with arms mounted outside the frame rails you end up with a huge/ wide track width vehicle like the trx or raptor which further hinders off-road performance everywhere but the wide open desert. IFS will always be weaker than a solid axle and have more cost and complexity in lifting/modifying. The bronco is just a 4runner in a different dress. It drives, handles, and wheels exactly like one. The sway bar disco and front locker help, just like every built 4Runner for the last ~35years, but they still don’t flex, they still eat tie rod ends, and they still can’t take the abuse a solid axle can. If you want IFS and want to stick with a Jeep, get a compass, renegade, Cherokee, grand Cherokee, or wagoneer. Still plenty of options if you want a car like ride that can still go off road.

 

[vegasblue]

I could see the future Sahara becoming IFS. Maybe even the Sport line up. They could keep the Willys and Rubicon solid axle. Cake and eat it too. Would be an offshoot and cost a pretty penny, but I'm going to guess the JL came dangerously close meaning R&D has been performed already for IFS. I have no proof, but it does make sense to me at a high level. WIth today's market and economy though, my opinion is dog doo.

 

[Pinky Tuscadero]

Nope, not gonna happen
If you want IFS then go out and buy a Prius or some other crappy thing

 

[AcesandEights]

As a new Wrangler owner (and loving it BTW), I find this obsession to keep things the same so fascinating and so different to what you find from other auto forums. Most auto forums are all about pushing for updates and options, but wrangler people seem to be fighting to remain static for anything that isn't directly off-road related. Look through the forums, You'll find people ridiculed for opting to purchase Wranglers with modern conveniences, heck even a Wrangler with 4 doors was taboo for some time. These arguments never point to facts to support why the particular convenince is a problem, and they almost always end with "if you want those things, why don't you go buy truck X or SUV Y...". Why? Because I want a WRANGLER that's why!

Why the constant fight against creature comforts? The JL is the best Wrangler ever produced in capability, convenience and safety. It does so while retaining the Wrangler's core competency. These improvements/cake-and-eat-it-too updates occurred because Jeep was pushed to do it. Now there is something for everyone. There's even a pickup version called the JT. The Bronco may push Jeep to offer an IFS system.

That said, will someone please explain why having and IFS option is a bad thing for folks that love the Wrangler ruggedness, iconic looks, and fun factor, but are willing to give up marginally better off-road capability for significantly better/safer on-road capability?

It's not a matter of keeping things the same for the sake of keeping them the same. You could engineer and design an IFS system for the Wrangler, but what's the point? The negatives outweigh the positives.

Do you want simple, rugged, cost effective, low maintenance with a good (maybe not as good as something else) ride? You have to pick or prioritize and the Wrangler was designed to meet certain standards or criterion. There is a reason most IFS 4x4 retain a solid axle in the rear. It's better.

The "positives" of IFS are more than offset by the negatives. Ford built the Bronco to compete with the Wrangler, off road. What Ford built was a Toyota 4Runner. It (probably) tracks marginally better than a Wrangler, but it fails to match the Wrangler in off road scenarios. So, buy a Bronco if you want a 4Runner, and buy a Wrangler if you want an off roader. Those are the options, not because Jeep won't adapt, but they offer exactly what they market, and what people (should) know they are getting. The SFA is better.

I really have to wonder if people don't understand SFA vs IFS when they ask these questions or make comments related to the Wrangler, or if it is baiting/trolling. There is no reason to offer IFS in an off road-oriented vehicle. It's wholly counter-productive. I'm not talking about purpose-built competition vehicles.

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