Anybody else in Pa. Running doorless ?

[beaups]

It's in the vehicle code for PA, which I guess has always been open for officers to use as "probable cause" to pull you over.

The code specifies that if the car was built without doors, then it doesn't need the doors. Modern Wranglers are built with doors from the factory.

Sounds like an opportunity for FCA to make attaching the doors in PA part of dealer prep.

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[rallydefault]

True! ha!

 

[zimcra64]

Contacted my state rep, 85th district, on why this keeps stalling. I’m told he will discuss re-introducing with Masser.

 

[Aloha Offroad]

Following, @zimcra64 Thanks for checking into this.

 

[Aloha Offroad]

Contacted my state rep, 85th district, on why this keeps stalling. I’m told he will discuss re-introducing with Masser.

I sent a message directly to Masser. I'd love to see this changed but not really expecting it unless a lot of PA Jeep owners get behind this.

 

[beaups]

I was only half joking before. Without carefully reading the law, it does sound like it's begging for a loophole. Seems FCA or even the dealer could sell you the doors on a separate transaction for $1 and, if needed, ship the doors to the dealer in a crate or w/e.

 

[rallydefault]

I was only half joking before. Without carefully reading the law, it does sound like it's begging for a loophole. Seems FCA or even the dealer could sell you the doors on a separate transaction for $1 and, if needed, ship the doors to the dealer in a crate or w/e.

Yea, and that's the problem with it. The wording can be vague. I'm fairly sure there's a thread on a different jeep forum about a guy actually going to court to fight the fine he got for driving with no doors, and the judge sided with him and threw out the ticket. But if that's truly the case, wouldn't that then became established precedent? I don't know, I'm definitely not a lawyer lol

And it's not even a "law," per say, it's part of the vehicle code. Again, I don't know how much of a difference that makes, but there it is.

I just want to be able to drive around town without worrying whether the next cop I pass is gonna scrutinize my jeep (assuming I'm following all other regulations). I'm not a doors off on the highway guy, so it's really just for smaller roads, town driving, and vacations for me.

 

[PA-Punkn]

This is my first summer with the Jeep, and I've driven all over Central and Southern Bucks County doors off with no issues, driving right by parked cop cars several times. I've also seen many other Jeepers with doors off.

Based on previous posts, I know enforcement is very regional, and individual cops may or may not choose to pull someone over, but I'd say this section of Bucks is fairly safe for going doorless.

 

[Aloha Offroad]

I live in Montco, have driven doorless past cops with no problems also. I have heard/read stories of people being stopped in some places in Montco, Delco, Chester and Bucks and as far away as Allegheny County. I agree with you, it is both regional and down to the officers discretion.

I know that I want to ride doorless and I don't want to get ticketed for something as ridiculous as this. Someone suggested having a big Jamboree type event in Harrisburg which I would be willing to do, but I think a starting point, especially since we are so scattered across the state, is to write and push for change. I know that has been done as well but I am willing to try again in order to possibly help our situation.

 

[PA-Punkn]

How about putting together an online petition and popularizing on Jeep and soon to be spun up Bronco sites? (I'm sure we can reach across the proverbial offroad aisle and work together with those Ford types on this )

Change.org is an example of such a platform.

I'd be down with helping spearhead this if others would likewise pitch in.

 

[Aloha Offroad]

How about putting together an online petition and popularizing on Jeep and soon to be spun up Bronco sites? (I'm sure we can reach across the proverbial offroad aisle and work together with those Ford types on this )

Change.org is an example of such a platform.

I'd be down with helping spearhead this if others would likewise pitch in.

I just got a response from Kurt Masser's assistant regarding door laws:

"Good afternoon. Yes, Rep. Masser reintroduced the bill and in the 2019-2020 legislative session it is HB 1240. The bill was referred to the Transportation committee on April 17, 2019. It has not moved further through the process. The current legislative session ends November 30th. To be honest, with the current situation of the state, country and world, I do not see this bill being passed and signed into law this session. It will be up to the Representative early next year if he reintroduces it or not. Thank you, Cindy"

This obviously makes sense based on what the country is dealing with at the moment, but if people express a desire to get this moving forward, he may pursue it again. It was a great idea, @PA-Punkn to reach out the Bronco people as well.

I will help in any way I can too.

 

[PA-Punkn]

Thanks for the update. I'm a little uncertain about the last passage on the below.

As written, exemption would only be permitted if copy of notice to insurance company and acknowledgement doors off is acceptable to them is kept on vehicle.

If one contacts the insurance company, they say no way, you drive doorless anyway, they may reject claims if youre in an accident without doors, as you were explicitly made aware of their position on the matter.

Do folks in other states need to do this insurance thing?

Also, the 2020 JL manual has same exact language as below.

Posted:​	January 25, 2019 11:42 AM
From:​	Representative Kurt A. Masser
To:​	All House members
Subject:​	removal of jeep doors on highways (Foirmer HB 976)

I will soon re-introduce legislation aimed at permitting owners of Jeeps that have factory removable doors to be able to drive on the highways of the Commonwealth with those doors removed. As you may know, Jeep Wranglers are manufactured with such doors but because of they must get safety approval of the National Highway Safety Administration (NHTSA) for their vehicles, they must warn purchasers that removing the doors is for off-road use only. This warning appears in the CJ owner’s manual, “Do not drive your vehicle on public roads with the doors removed as you will lose the protection that they can provide. This procedure is furnished for use during off-road operation only.” A vehicle being used on the highway after having this warning could endanger its insurance coverage if an accident were to occur. Further, the Vehicle Code currently states that it is unlawful to, “willfully or intentionally remove (other than for purposes of repair and replacement) or render inoperative, in whole or in part, any item of vehicle equipment which was required to be installed at the time of manufacture or thereafter upon any vehicle, by any law, rule, regulation or requirement of any officer or agency of the United States or of the Commonwealth, if it is intended that the vehicle be operated upon the highways of this Commonwealth unless the removal or alteration is specifically permitted by this title or by regulations promulgated by the department.” I feel that if it is indeed safe to remove doors off-road then it should be safe to do the same on highways. My legislation would provide an exception while requiring owners of Jeeps or other vehicles that have removal doors that wish to use their vehicle without doors to notify their insurance carrier of the intended use and carry acknowledgement of that notification in the vehicle during such operation

 

[ExitLeft]

I drive doorless through Montgomery County and Bucks County (and into Jersey) all the time; never been hassled or pulled over.

I’m opposed to that part of the proposed legislation requiring notification of the insurance company. That will just be justification for them to apply a “doorless surcharge”. Ridiculous!
want to drive doorless? That’ll be another $259 per policy period, please.

 

[rockadile]

What would stop someone from faking proof of insurance company approval? It is not like it is a standardized document...how would a police officer know if it is legit or not?

 

[PA-Punkn]

What would stop someone from faking proof of insurance company approval? It is not like it is a standardized document...how would a police officer know if it is legit or not?

Very good point, just shows that the Representative's approach towards the legislation is not well thought-out.

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