Antigravity LiFePo Battery - Real Life Experience?

[Myrddin]

All certainly reasonable points. The AG LFP (lithium iron phosphate) battery chemistry will be a lot more stable over long periods of disuse than the AGM, so for your case that would be a plus. Ideally for longevity, it'd be stored below full charge in that case, i.e. ~85% of whatever the Ah rating is.

Regarding your planned use, it will probably last longer than AGM batteries because of what's known as Depth of Discharge (DoD). An LFP can be discharged to a much lower point than AGM or lead-acid, which is to say that you can 'run down' the battery (like through winching in your case, or running the fridge & chainsaw in mine) to a lower point with LFP than AGM, without damaging the chemistry. So for 80 Ah of LFP, you could use ~60 Ah before the battery would care that much, versus 40 Ah for a same-sized AGM. You can do the math on how many more minutes/hours of winching that gets you, but the point is that repeated discharges like that will damage an AGM battery more over time than an LFP. So not only are you getting more actual usable energy out of the LFP, doing so won't degrade it as much over the months & years of such use. That is part of what sold me on it - it's not just a longer lasting product, but you can get more use out of it during that longer timeframe.

Fully admitting that it's to be seen how much longer it lasts. But as I mentioned, my company is installing nearly the exact same LFP chemistries, with a planned lifetime of 10-20 years. The use cases are very different, but the underlying principles like DoD are what I'm hanging my hat on, career-wise.

Will also state again that the prices on these chemistries will be coming down more in the next few years. I don't mind being an early adopter, but if you're tight on cash then waiting another year or two and running a regular AGM is totally reasonable until there's less sticker-shock on these things. The future is coming but dang is it slow haha.

thanks! some great points you made. I'm going to sit on this a bit longer and then just pick one and order... I did also see that the 80Ah batteries are backordered too... so that is an unknown wait time. However, someone stated it should be available any day now.

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[STW]

BUMP I am looking to replace the battery in my 392 (only has one). I want to think the Antigravity battery is the one to get... but with all the negative feedback it's hard to do that....

tell us about the negative feedback you're hearing?

 

[Myrddin]

tell us about the negative feedback you're hearing?

The negative feedback I am referring to is all the folks stating cost vs reward, and the possible failure in cold and hot extreme weather. Also, some state that once its drained it can be possibly damaged like any other battery. Then the economics of the purchase are not logical. I have been searching for rewards for 3 days now to help me flip the switch and buy one. Again, I have no problem buying it.. if it makes sense. I keep thinking I can pay less for other batteries that last as long but don't have a few features. Also, one thing that comes to mind is what happens when/if it does go bad... How long will I be down? I know with Optima or Odyssey I can go to the parts store down the road... I have no dealers for the AG battery, so I would need to ship... and hope they agree its bad so I can get a replacement. One guy I saw on this forum I think... said it took months to get his turned around (but to be fair it was in COVID months). I analyze every purchase... the more it costs I need to understand if its smart, or if it's just a flashy thing that has my attention. I watched the light bright video... based off what I saw. they gotta kick back from promoting for the company... I could be wrong. But I can't base a purchase off their excitement. The people that do have one say it's more or less been good... but the longest ownership I found was short of 5 years. However, its still going good for him (most positive feedback).

In general, there are folks that just seem negative about it. And it causes me to look elsewhere for answers.

 

[Myrddin]

Interesting clip about the AG battery. He does state cold weather is bad... and says you should take it out when its freezing. But then contradicts himself some on driving in cold weather. Check it out.

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[STW]

The negative feedback I am referring to is all the folks stating cost vs reward, and the possible failure in cold and hot extreme weather. Also, some state that once its drained it can be possibly damaged like any other battery. Then the economics of the purchase are not logical. I have been searching for rewards for 3 days now to help me flip the switch and buy one. Again, I have no problem buying it.. if it makes sense. I keep thinking I can pay less for other batteries that last as long but don't have a few features. Also, one thing that comes to mind is what happens when/if it does go bad... How long will I be down? I know with Optima or Odyssey I can go to the parts store down the road... I have no dealers for the AG battery, so I would need to ship... and hope they agree its bad so I can get a replacement. One guy I saw on this forum I think... said it took months to get his turned around (but to be fair it was in COVID months). I analyze every purchase... the more it costs I need to understand if its smart, or if it's just a flashy thing that has my attention. I watched the light bright video... based off what I saw. they gotta kick back from promoting for the company... I could be wrong. But I can't base a purchase off their excitement. The people that do have one say it's more or less been good... but the longest ownership I found was short of 5 years. However, its still going good for him (most positive feedback).

In general, there are folks that just seem negative about it. And it causes me to look elsewhere for answers.

Thanks. What you said matches the potential drawbacks I see--the cons vs pros.
1. LiFePo batteries are still expensive compared to the top of the line AGM
2. Because the internals of LiFePo batteries can freeze, there is still some question of how they cope with any given winter driving/parking situation. Lead acid and AGM batteries are affected by extreme cold too, but the internals can't freeze, or at least have a lower freeze temp so managing LiFePo batteries in super cold weather is different and not well known by many of us.
3. That's partly because LiFePo batteries are relatively new on the market as starter batteries, and another way that affects a consumer choice is access to help if something goes wrong--that's a known thing with Odyssey or Optima, maybe less known for AntiGravity, and probably less access, more remote.
4. Also because they are new, longevity is a predicted value more than a known.

One thing I've considered is that for LiFePo batteries, you want to buy the best BMS (the internal computer that manages the battery) as well as the other aspects of quality. Whereas with an AGM battery you look for thinness and quality of the lead plates (which both Odyssey and Optima tout) fore example, but LiFePo batteries are going to fare better or worse for us depending on the BMS and that's what I wouldn't want to skimp on.

LiFePo is definitely a want not a need at this point, since there other good AGM options whose main drawback compared to LiFePo is heavy weight, and a few other things mentioned here too.

 

[Mules]

I’ve had mine for a little over two years now and have no issues at all.

Glad to hear the Antigravity Battery works on the 240 amp alternator. Thanks for that information. The way I look at this is an 80AH Antigravity Battery is half the price of installing a dual battery system with AGM batteries!

The Overlanding community is on the verge of switching to high capacity Lithium starter batteries, instead of secondary power supplies or dual battery setups. The only question I have remaining is cold weather operation.

 

[STW]

....
The Overlanding community is on the verge of switching to high capacity Lithium starter batteries, instead of secondary power supplies or dual battery setups. The only question I have remaining is cold weather operation.

Interesting about overlanders being on the verge of switching, do you have a link to any reading on that? That switch has made sense to me for a while.

I'm about to start using the Antigravity as a main starter battery*, with the Aux disconnected (and may remove the Aux). The Antigravity just arrived along with warm weather so I won't get to test out cold weather operation for 8 months or so.
___________
*Required a main battery replacement on my '22 JLR because the parasitic interaction between the main and aux, same as others have experienced. I've posted about it on this forum, but was lucky to see suggestions from Rheinbeck and others to use the Noco 10 for charging the JL's stock dual battery system. I didn't take notice of it until after the damage had already been done. The Noco 10 repair mode did manage to bring back both my stock main and aux to a chargeable state, but the main has been limping along. I've been monitoring to see if it could come fully back, but it's chronically in the the low to mid 9v cranking voltage.

 

[Mules]

Here's the best blog I've found on Lithium Starter Batteries in Jeeps. Post some pictures of your Lithium Battery installed! Also let us know how it's working.

I love that Dakota has a 135AH battery, but it won't work with my 240 amp alternator (Gladiator Tow Package). Antigravity has an 80AH that should work though.

https://www.takethetruck.com/blog/overlanding-battery

 

[STW]

Realized it's been almost a year since I installed a LiFePo battery as the main car battery, and it's had zero issues, including through harsh cold of this last winter. No drama, stays fully charged, always up at full voltage for starts. Wish I could say more about real life experience for the thread (see my posts #35 and #37 last year, above) but most of the time I forget it's there.

Details: H6/Group-48 size Antigravity LiFePo, 60 amp-hour version. Had their lead-acid Battery Tracker for data for my old battery, so needed the Lithium-compatible Battery Tracker to continue tracking data. Also got a CTEK Lithium Smart charger. Some smart chargers have lithium battery modes so this last expense may not be necessary if you switch to lithium. I already had a Bolt hood lock installed.
https://antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/automotive/ag-h6-rs/
My JL Rubicon 2dr 2.0T came with an H6 size OEM AGM lead-acid. Even though the JL battery tray will accommodate an H7 size with 80 Ah, for various reasons I went with the same size as came stock.

These Antigravity LiFePo batteries are designed to be plug-and-play replacement for OEM AGM lead acid batteries, and designed to be charged by the standard alternators and switching systems the vehicle already has. Mine certainly has been an invisible replacement, but I don't know if that would be true if I'd installed as the Main in the stock dual battery system. Maybe, but I didn't test that because I did the Aux battery bypass after my stock dual battery system ate itself last winter. I left the Aux in place for warrantee reasons, I guess, but also because it's a pain to get out of there. I have ESS turned off most of the time, and use the Tazer Mini so I don't have to remember to press the button before every start. The ESS does work fine with the one Main battery alone though, whether it's an AGM or LiFePo battery. I suppose if you have a lot of running accessories like AC or other power draws, maybe that would affect ESS ability with only the one battery, since according to Jeep, running accessories during ESS stops is what the Aux is for.

I don't mind ESS at all and I still use it whenever I'm expecting a longer idle. (I think it's possibly better implemented in the eTorque motors, which use a belt-starter as I understand, so they're not over-relying on starter technology that may not be designed for that frequent a start-stop cycle.)

My own reason for skipping ESS a lot, and for bypassing the Aux, is that I think Jeep's method (maybe the software or algorithm; maybe the switching/wiring) for managing the dual batteries is flawed and lets them cannibalize each other. Anyway, my stock batteries were both fatally damaged at very low miles under ordinary use and conditions. People will say that's due to the complexity of modern auto computer systems, and no doubt there is more demand on vehicle batteries now. But if they can't last more than a year, if they can't last longer than 7,000 miles, then something else is wrong. In my case, after the Aux bypass, the thing that was wrong is now fixed.

Just last week I had to take the JLR for a sudden and unscheduled dealership visit for the waterpump housing repair. That was my first visit to the dealership in over two years since the JLR was delivered in January '22, and I didn't think to do any of the dealer visit prep reversals of mods I'd planned, haha, and I dropped it off with the Tazer Mini installed and married.

To their excellent credit, the Salt Lake Valley Jeep dealer, at 23rd South State Street, didn't bat an eye, and gave me a one day turn around on an unscheduled warrantee repair without questioning my mods. Maybe if my repair issue had been battery- or electric-related they would have minded the Aux being disconnected, but they have seen a lot of dual battery related warrantee issues and replaced a lot of Main/Aux pairs that ate each other.

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