Anti-Spin axle on Sport upgrades axle to Dana 44?

[Stuckinthesand]

BLD still works with TC off. I have no anti spin / LSD and my jeep will do the same thing.
I have accelerated from a stop with one rear tire on tar, the other on packed snow and ice.
It spins a second and then off you go.

According to Jeep... Trac-Lok anti-spin (limited slip differential) is always active and works independently of BLD. BLD works with both axles but is only active in 4-Hi and 4-Lo. BLD will kick in if the torque bias is higher than Trac-Lok can handle.

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[Stuckinthesand]

Here’s one simplified way to think of the two:
BLD reduces torque to a spinning wheel in the hope of regaining traction
LSD distributes 80% of available torque to the wheel with the greatest traction

 

[Uhdinator]

A better way to say it: BLD makes the diff sense torque from braking the spinning wheel so it will transfer an equal amount of torque to the wheel that is not moving.

A spinning wheel (as in if its in the air or on ice) requires 0 or near 0 torque to move it. So with an open diff that gives 50/50 torque to each wheel. Both wheels are getting near 0 torque and you don't move. BLD starts applying resistance/braking and tricking the diff into thinking the torque is increasing (there is traction) and transfers an equal amount of torque to the non moving wheel. The braking gradually increases until you start moving. It requires more power for BLD as you are working against the braking, which you do not have with a LSD or a locker. A LSD will transfer power quicker and not wear your brakes as much until the clutches wear out.

I guarantee you it works in 2H with or without TC on. The lights flash, it cuts, power etc and with one rear tire on ice and the other on tar it will actually get you going quicker with TC on as it will reduce spinning by cutting power and braking. Then if you turn TC off it will take slightly longer to get going as the spinning wheel spins faster with no power reduction, melts the ice and makes it wet ice from the friction/heat and is even more slippery, and the brakes have to clamp down harder to stop the faster wheel spin and off you go............

Done it several times testing it..........works every time. With TC off you are actually taking a little longer to get going and wasting your brake pads a little more. Of course you can just pop into 4H and save your brakes and go. I did this purposely in 2H to see what it would do and if it worked, which was better TC on or off. Of course with deep snow/sand or mud where maintaining momentum and keeping your tires churning is required, turn TC off. TC is best used on the highway when driving on packed snow and ice and will keep you from spinning out into a ditch if a tire looses traction.

There are pro's and con's to all 3 options:
LSD acts quicker and less break wear then BLD
LSD clutches wear out
Lockers won't wear your brakes but slightly harder to turn with it locked and you don't want to use lockers for highway driving.
BLD wears your brake pads but pads are cheaper to replace than an LSD.
If you drive aggressively in snow, rain, or otherwise like chirping your tires going around corners your brake wear will likely be increased slightly from the BLD engaging more frequently.
Gear type LSD's vice clutch type don't have the clutch wear issue but the Jeep OEM LSD in not a gear type LSD to my knowledge.

 

[Stuckinthesand]

A better way to say it: BLD makes the diff sense torque from braking the spinning wheel so it will transfer an equal amount of torque to the wheel that is not moving.

A spinning wheel (as in if its in the air or on ice) requires 0 or near 0 torque to move it. So with an open diff that gives 50/50 torque to each wheel. Both wheels are getting near 0 torque and you don't move. BLD starts applying resistance/braking and tricking the diff into thinking the torque is increasing (there is traction) and transfers an equal amount of torque to the non moving wheel. The braking gradually increases until you start moving. It requires more power for BLD as you are working against the braking, which you do not have with a LSD or a locker. A LSD will transfer power quicker and not wear your brakes as much until the clutches wear out.

I guarantee you it works in 2H with or without TC on. The lights flash, it cuts, power etc and with one rear tire on ice and the other on tar it will actually get you going quicker with TC on as it will reduce spinning by cutting power and braking. Then if you turn TC off it will take slightly longer to get going as the spinning wheel spins faster with no power reduction, melts the ice and makes it wet ice from the friction/heat and is even more slippery, and the brakes have to clamp down harder to stop the faster wheel spin and off you go............

Done it several times testing it..........works every time. With TC off you are actually taking a little longer to get going and wasting your brake pads a little more. Of course you can just pop into 4H and save your brakes and go. I did this purposely in 2H to see what it would do and if it worked, which was better TC on or off. Of course with deep snow/sand or mud where maintaining momentum and keeping your tires churning is required, turn TC off. TC is best used on the highway when driving on packed snow and ice and will keep you from spinning out into a ditch if a tire looses traction.

There are pro's and con's to all 3 options:
LSD acts quicker and less break wear then BLD
LSD clutches wear out
Lockers won't wear your brakes but slightly harder to turn with it locked and you don't want to use lockers for highway driving.
BLD wears your brake pads but pads are cheaper to replace than an LSD.
If you drive aggressively in snow, rain, or otherwise like chirping your tires going around corners your brake wear will likely be increased slightly from the BLD engaging more frequently.
Gear type LSD's vice clutch type don't have the clutch wear issue but the Jeep OEM LSD in not a gear type LSD to my knowledge.

Very good input. I wonder why Jeep tells people it’s only in 4 wheel drive that it works. Either way thanks for the informative discussion. You know what you are taking about and I appreciate the added knowledge.

 

[west tex]

Yeah it’s pretty much the worst unit ever made. Guys are wearing them out in 10k miles.

Back in 1977 I had a Dodge sedan with what they then called "sure-grip" differential. I drove it for 6 years, approx 100K miles, with no issues.

So, you're saying the newer limited slip set-ups are garbage?

 

[word302]

Back in 1977 I had a Dodge sedan with what they then called "sure-grip" differential. I drove it for 6 years, approx 100K miles, with no issues.

So, you're saying the newer limited slip set-ups are garbage?

Just the one keep chooses to use

 

[BrierPatch]

So, you're saying the newer limited slip set-ups are garbage?

I would be curious about this as well. I know older jeeps/TJ's LSD were not considered very durable/longevity. Are people having the newer LSD's wear out or is it just old school sentiment that they are junk?

 

[flyer92]

I recently asked about this with two mechanics...one with 25+ years of experience at a Jeep dealership and the other at a local off-road specialty shop. Both said essentially the same thing: the vast majority of problems with this LSD are caused when people spin their rear wheels in place (in sand, snow, mud, etc.). Apparently, it doesn't take much to wear those clutches out, so the less you spin out, the better. If this really is the overwhelming cause, then it seems easily avoidable and should be addressed in the owner's manual, IMHO. Based on their advice, there's no doubt I'll restrict excessive spin-out if I can help it.

 

[BrierPatch]

I recently asked about this with two mechanics...one with 25+ years of experience at a Jeep dealership and the other at a local off-road specialty shop. Both said essentially the same thing: the vast majority of problems with this LSD are caused when people spin their rear wheels in place (in sand, snow, mud, etc.). Apparently, it doesn't take much to wear those clutches out, so the less you spin out, the better. If this really is the overwhelming cause, then it seems easily avoidable and should be addressed in the owner's manual, IMHO. Based on their advice, there's no doubt I'll restrict excessive spin-out if I can help it.

This sounds sounds like an excellent explanation of why their are different experiences with the LSD. I get it that slipping clutches wear out. I guess the real issue is, clutch based LSD's are not very durable and that's what Jeep uses. This is why I put Detroit true-tracs(front & rear) in my TJ. Still a LSD, but not clutch based. However I understand why Jeep uses the clutch based LSD, because they are less expensive and less abusive to the rest of the drive chain, and they are less of a liability when engaged to the mass general public and short wheelbase vehicles. Perfect example of the liability and vehicle control is the fact that the rubicon lockers can only be engaged at slow speeds.

 

[flyer92]

A better way to say it: BLD makes the diff sense torque from braking the spinning wheel so it will transfer an equal amount of torque to the wheel that is not moving.

A spinning wheel (as in if its in the air or on ice) requires 0 or near 0 torque to move it. So with an open diff that gives 50/50 torque to each wheel. Both wheels are getting near 0 torque and you don't move. BLD starts applying resistance/braking and tricking the diff into thinking the torque is increasing (there is traction) and transfers an equal amount of torque to the non moving wheel. The braking gradually increases until you start moving. It requires more power for BLD as you are working against the braking, which you do not have with a LSD or a locker. A LSD will transfer power quicker and not wear your brakes as much until the clutches wear out.

I guarantee you it works in 2H with or without TC on. The lights flash, it cuts, power etc and with one rear tire on ice and the other on tar it will actually get you going quicker with TC on as it will reduce spinning by cutting power and braking. Then if you turn TC off it will take slightly longer to get going as the spinning wheel spins faster with no power reduction, melts the ice and makes it wet ice from the friction/heat and is even more slippery, and the brakes have to clamp down harder to stop the faster wheel spin and off you go............

Done it several times testing it..........works every time. With TC off you are actually taking a little longer to get going and wasting your brake pads a little more. Of course you can just pop into 4H and save your brakes and go. I did this purposely in 2H to see what it would do and if it worked, which was better TC on or off. Of course with deep snow/sand or mud where maintaining momentum and keeping your tires churning is required, turn TC off. TC is best used on the highway when driving on packed snow and ice and will keep you from spinning out into a ditch if a tire looses traction.

There are pro's and con's to all 3 options:
LSD acts quicker and less break wear then BLD
LSD clutches wear out
Lockers won't wear your brakes but slightly harder to turn with it locked and you don't want to use lockers for highway driving.
BLD wears your brake pads but pads are cheaper to replace than an LSD.
If you drive aggressively in snow, rain, or otherwise like chirping your tires going around corners your brake wear will likely be increased slightly from the BLD engaging more frequently.
Gear type LSD's vice clutch type don't have the clutch wear issue but the Jeep OEM LSD in not a gear type LSD to my knowledge.

This is a great explanation...really appreciate it. In short, seems like it's just best to just disengage TC every time you go off road, even in 2H. True?

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