Spearmin
Well-Known Member
well I guess you missed out.I removed start/stop as soon as I got
My JL
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well I guess you missed out.I removed start/stop as soon as I got
My JL
I'm not, since I have a engine/transmission skid plate. Also, the 2.0 engine does not have the crossover exhaust pipe - another vulnerability eliminated.I don't disagree. But I'm still more concerned with the transmission lines, as they seem far more vulnerable to me. The brake lines too.
I think this is a good point - theoretical risk vs actual experience. I have to say I found a massive stick/branch wedged with by my transfer case/fuel line on the passenger side. I was simply lucky it did not snag my fuel line right off. So now I want to protect those lines. Agree, that the cooling lines have not proven to be an issue so far.There are many different system components that it 4 full model years, and not 1 peep about damaged coolant lines for the battery pack. Not saying it couldn't happen, but ...
Not having the crossover pipe, which by the way is almost never mentioned here as a benefit of the 2.0, was one of the many reasons I decided to go with the less proven 2.0 engine.The rear muffler on all motors and the crossover exhaust pipe on the 3.6 gets whacked all the time. Why isn't jeep asked "what were you thinking?" when they layed out the exhaust systems?
For those who haven't seen it yet, in this video a Chrysler engineer explains what eTorque is, how it works, and what it does. I found it really helpful, so figured I would share.
This is in a Ram 1500, but it's basically the same system as in the Wrangler. Since Jeep doesn't really explain it well in their marketing, it can be easily confused with ESS (electronic start-stop). eTorque is a belt starter-generator and is used for more than just the engine start-stop function.
A quick summary of the 6 functions of eTorque:
1. Stop-Start: Unlike ESS, which uses the starter and is much more noticeable, eTorque uses the 48V battery and belt starter generator (BSG) to restart the engine within 400ms. Saves gas when at stop lights, etc. (I can verify that it's very seamless. The thing you notice most is just the lack of engine NVH when it stops.)
2. eRoll Assist: when starting to move, eTorque adds power for approximately the first half tire rotation to give the engine a "boost" down at inefficient low engine revs to get the vehicle moving.
3. Upshift Rev Matching: when the engine needs to upshift, eTorque scrubs off engine speed to rev match for a smooth shift, and stores that energy in the 48V battery instead of using the transmission clutches to scrub off that speed.
4. Electronic System power: the 48V battery is used to power the vehicle electrical loads so that the engine doesn't have the extra parasitic loss.
5. Downshift Rev Matching: eTorque accelerates the engine for smooth shifts instead of having to use fuel.
6. Regenerative Braking: under coasting or normal braking conditions, eTorque puts a load on the engine and uses the BSG to store energy that would normally have to be absorbed by the brake pads.
I have the 2.0l with eTorque on my JLU and love it. Super smooth start stop and I am getting 20.5 mpg mostly city driving, with bit of highway, way over that on road tripsFor those who haven't seen it yet, in this video a Chrysler engineer explains what eTorque is, how it works, and what it does. I found it really helpful, so figured I would share.
This is in a Ram 1500, but it's basically the same system as in the Wrangler. Since Jeep doesn't really explain it well in their marketing, it can be easily confused with ESS (electronic start-stop). eTorque is a belt starter-generator and is used for more than just the engine start-stop function.
A quick summary of the 6 functions of eTorque:
1. Stop-Start: Unlike ESS, which uses the starter and is much more noticeable, eTorque uses the 48V battery and belt starter generator (BSG) to restart the engine within 400ms. Saves gas when at stop lights, etc. (I can verify that it's very seamless. The thing you notice most is just the lack of engine NVH when it stops.)
2. eRoll Assist: when starting to move, eTorque adds power for approximately the first half tire rotation to give the engine a "boost" down at inefficient low engine revs to get the vehicle moving.
3. Upshift Rev Matching: when the engine needs to upshift, eTorque scrubs off engine speed to rev match for a smooth shift, and stores that energy in the 48V battery instead of using the transmission clutches to scrub off that speed.
4. Electronic System power: the 48V battery is used to power the vehicle electrical loads so that the engine doesn't have the extra parasitic loss.
5. Downshift Rev Matching: eTorque accelerates the engine for smooth shifts instead of having to use fuel.
6. Regenerative Braking: under coasting or normal braking conditions, eTorque puts a load on the engine and uses the BSG to store energy that would normally have to be absorbed by the brake pads.
Good summary except the engineer missed this from FCA:For those who haven't seen it yet, in this video a Chrysler engineer explains what eTorque is, how it works, and what it does. I found it really helpful, so figured I would share.
This is in a Ram 1500, but it's basically the same system as in the Wrangler. Since Jeep doesn't really explain it well in their marketing, it can be easily confused with ESS (electronic start-stop). eTorque is a belt starter-generator and is used for more than just the engine start-stop function.
A quick summary of the 6 functions of eTorque:
1. Stop-Start: Unlike ESS, which uses the starter and is much more noticeable, eTorque uses the 48V battery and belt starter generator (BSG) to restart the engine within 400ms. Saves gas when at stop lights, etc. (I can verify that it's very seamless. The thing you notice most is just the lack of engine NVH when it stops.)
2. eRoll Assist: when starting to move, eTorque adds power for approximately the first half tire rotation to give the engine a "boost" down at inefficient low engine revs to get the vehicle moving.
3. Upshift Rev Matching: when the engine needs to upshift, eTorque scrubs off engine speed to rev match for a smooth shift, and stores that energy in the 48V battery instead of using the transmission clutches to scrub off that speed.
4. Electronic System power: the 48V battery is used to power the vehicle electrical loads so that the engine doesn't have the extra parasitic loss.
5. Downshift Rev Matching: eTorque accelerates the engine for smooth shifts instead of having to use fuel.
6. Regenerative Braking: under coasting or normal braking conditions, eTorque puts a load on the engine and uses the BSG to store energy that would normally have to be absorbed by the brake pads.
My 2022 High Tide with etorque V-6 is rated at 19 city, 24 highway and 21 combined. That is 2 mpg better than non-etorque for the 2022 Wranglers. Jeep has said Wrangler fuel efficiency improved “in the teens” percent with etorque.There is nothing that changes the MPG rating. But yes, it probable adds a fraction of a MPG.
I think it's something that Jeep thought they could get some extra $$$ for. And they have been moving eTorque from one engine to another, one price option to another trying to get enough customers to order it.
I think right now they are betting on customers taking it without having to quantify the benefits.
Interesting! I hadn't thought of the etorque benefit difference with lower vs higher gearing. My '22 JL Willys 3.6 etorque has the stock 3.45 gearing (which I don't care for at all) and I've been considering a 4.10, or more likely 4.56 conversion. I'll never be running larger than a 33" tire.Good summary except the engineer missed this from FCA:
“A short-duration torque addition to the engine crankshaft in particular driving conditions;”
Jim Morrison has described it as a torque curve filling function under 2,000 rpm. Ram described it in their marketing as the additional torque to get up a boat ramp (the whole ramp, not just roll-assist).
With the 4.56 gearing on my JLU with Xtreme Recon I can feel this etorque contribution under 2,000 rpm especially in transitions from off-throttle to on throttle. I probably could not notice this in a Sahara with higher gearing, but in lower geared XRs you feel the punch of up to 90 lbs ft extra, it gets your attention in a good way. Makes you smile.
Given the gearing in our excellent 850re transmissions, I would not be afraid to consider the 4.56 gearing. Really wakes up seventh and eighth gears in the transmission. It is a factory option these days in the XR (though not on the JL two-door). Allows you the upgrade to 35s in the future. If you have Etorque, the change will be quite noticeable in that system's contribution. But 4.10 gears with 33s is also the classic pairing and a good one, if no future plans for 35s. 35s are a big help off-road. I have run both. One of my favorite old JKs was a Sport with 3.70 gears. In hindsight, I should have re-geared, lifted and installed 35s for how I was using that Jeep. My new JL High Tide/XR has shown me the error of my ways with 35s, lift and 4.56 gearing. One other consideration is weight. Your JL Willys is lighter than a JLU, significantly. That might push the analysis also to 4.10s if no plans for 35s. I just would not sell 35s short though. An Etorque V-6 in a JL with an 850re trans and with 35s and a quality 1.5-2 inch lift would be pretty sweet in my humble opinion. Yes, 3.45 gearing is not where you want to drive. It takes so much away from the dynamics of driving your Jeep and in the real world does not save much gas as you are always in the weak part of your engine's power band. So unless you have the patience of a saint (I don't), you apply more throttle to overcome that, engine shifts to a lower gear in the trans, which does not help mileage. Get your axle gearing correct and that changes and makes better use of our very nice 8-speed transmissions and Etorque systems, especially at low rpm. Which is where we spend most of our time driving.Interesting! I hadn't thought of the etorque benefit difference with lower vs higher gearing. My '22 JL Willys 3.6 etorque has the stock 3.45 gearing (which I don't care for at all) and I've been considering a 4.10, or more likely 4.56 conversion. I'll never be running larger than a 33" tire.
Thanks for sharing your etorque experience with the lower gearing. That's something I can look forward to.
Well Don..Given the gearing in our excellent 850re transmissions, I would not be afraid to consider the 4.56 gearing. Really wakes up seventh and eighth gears in the transmission. It is a factory option these days in the XR (though not on the JL two-door). Allows you the upgrade to 35s in the future. If you have Etorque, the change will be quite noticeable in that system's contribution. But 4.10 gears with 33s is also the classic pairing and a good one, if no future plans for 35s. 35s are a big help off-road. I have run both. One of my favorite old JKs was a Sport with 3.70 gears. In hindsight, I should have re-geared, lifted and installed 35s for how I was using that Jeep. My new JL High Tide/XR has shown me the error of my ways with 35s, lift and 4.56 gearing. One other consideration is weight. Your JL Willys is lighter than a JLU, significantly. That might push the analysis also to 4.10s if no plans for 35s. I just would not sell 35s short though. An Etorque V-6 in a JL with an 850re trans and with 35s and a quality 1.5-2 inch lift would be pretty sweet in my humble opinion. Yes, 3.45 gearing is not where you want to drive. It takes so much away from the dynamics of driving your Jeep and in the real world does not save much gas as you are always in the weak part of your engine's power band. So unless you have the patience of a saint (I don't), you apply more throttle to overcome that, engine shifts to a lower gear in the trans, which does not help mileage. Get your axle gearing correct and that changes and makes better use of our very nice 8-speed transmissions and Etorque systems, especially at low rpm. Which is where we spend most of our time driving.
You are going to have some fun!Well Don..
I couldn't have explained it better!
Side note:
4.56, Nitro Helix rear, Torq Locker front, scheduled for install first week of January