MeanMrWolf

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Yeah, there’s a lot more to it. But basically yes.

Can’t say he same about FCA’s electrification plans, though...
Stellantis is a decade behind on electrification when compared to GM and Ford, who are behind Volvo/Polestar and VW, who are behind Tesla. Because of diesel cheating, VW is jumping all into electric, and is the big money behind the Electrify America charging network. They've missed some stellar opportunities. Imagine if they had brought back the 'cuda as a BEV Tesla killer? Focused on a 300 replacement that was BEV and provided upscale performance and luxury? They seem unable to see the future and pivot.





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MeanMrWolf

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Well considering the 392 will probably average 12mpg on a good day that gives it a 240 mile range. Making an electric Jeep go that far isn't a stretch, but doubt if crawling on a trail will give you that much range.
Regenerative braking will help significantly when trail crawling. You lose that energy recovery with an ICE.
 
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Sgt Beavis

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Yikes, LG has been having issues with battery chemistry. Kia and GM have issued recalls to software limit charge capacity to 90% of max charge. There is long term analysis happening about chemistry, and how to fix a potential for self-ignition.
I saw that. Also LG Chem had a trade lawsuit against SK Innovation, accusing them of stealing their IP. LG apparently won that yesterday and now SK is banned from making or importing batteries to the USA for 10 years. SK was supposed to make the batteries for Ford's EV F150. They even built a plant in Georgia for this. That plant is nearly completed and SK can't do a thing with it.

EV Drama is the best.. haha
 

MeanMrWolf

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The really fun part will be when every vehicle manufacturer uses a different type of charging port/connector, or the new model of one brand used a plug that only fits that model. Just like our phones. Won't that be fun!

Just imagine the hijinx we are all in for. Got your Ford EV but could only find the Tesla charge station before that sucker died on you. Wait, it's a different plug, and it won't work! Or maybe you have last year's Tesla and they changed the plug. What now?

I doubt Tesla wants a bunch of Ford and Chevy's "gassing up" at their station. That's not good for business. If Tesla builds out the system, they'll make darn sure you buy that Tesla if you want to use it. [I say Tesla, but in reality its a poorly managed company that will be be run out of business soon enough by the biggies, who will eventually build EV's better, cheaper, and faster]

Think the govt will step in make it all uniform just like for gas? Think again. These new EV's are viewed like tech, not cars (why I don't know). I'll bet the electrical/software end of these things in most ways get regulated like phones and ipads, which is barely or not at all. That's why your Apple iphone charger won't work on your Android phone, and your Apple 4 charger won't fit into your Apple 10. Nobody cares about uniformity and everybody wants to marry us to their brand, and new model upgrades.

Thank God for the used car market and the time it takes to phase things out. That means I'll be dead before everybody has an EV with no exceptions.
There are standardized charging connector(s) CCS and CHAdeMO. Everyone *but* Tesla uses these, and Tesla has an adaptor you can use for the CCS plug. Tesla has offered to license its Supercharger network, but no one has picked up on that, and I now believe that Tesla no longer offers it. The difference between charging ports is no different than that between gasoline and diesel fuel pumps.
 

AnnDee4444

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I love the EV concept but I think the elephant in the room that is being ignored by those pushing massive electrification is the grid and capacity limitations. California already has rolling brownouts but environmental regulations make it a 15 year process to bring a new power plant online. How the heck can this country convert even 25% of personal transportation to electric. Big disconnect.
The rolling blackout problem is due to demand, rather than energy (to put it in car terms, it's a lack of HP, not fuel). The majority of EV charging should be done at night, when the rates are lowest. Also there is some (not yet deployed) technology that uses the EV batteries to actually help the demand issue, called Vehicle-to-grid.

Regenerative braking will help significantly when trail crawling. You lose that energy recovery with and ICE.
Not to mention that the motor spends a lot of time idling or wasting energy through the torque converter (if it's an automatic).

There's probably no need for the EV low range to be 4:1 either, for the same reason that it doesn't make sense in the 392.
 

aldo98229

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Stellantis is a decade behind on electrification when compared to GM and Ford, who are behind Volvo/Polestar and VW, who are behind Tesla. Because of diesel cheating, VW is jumping all into electric, and is the big money behind the Electrify America. They've missed some stellar opportunities. Imagine if they had brought back the 'cuda as a BEV Tesla killer? Focused on a 300 replacement that was BEV and provided upscale performance and luxury? They seem unable to see the future and pivot.
Yeah. Well, FCA had its own mini-dieselgate...but they learned squat from it.

Audi revealed its 2022 e-tron yesterday. That thing is hawt!

I see electric vehicles finally gaining momentum with customers. Thing is, people will buy anything that is reliable, looks hot and drives awesome. Even if it is powered by cat farts...

 

MeanMrWolf

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Yeah. Well, FCA had its own mini-dieselgate...but they learned squat from it.

Audi revealed its 2022 e-tron yesterday. That thing is hawt!

I see electric vehicles finally gaining momentum with customers. Thing is, people will buy anything that is reliable, looks hot and drives awesome. Even if it is powered by cat farts...

Long term reliability of BEV is off the wall compared to ICE. The *only* long term concern is battery longevity. I suspect as BEV makes more inroads there will be battery replacement/refurbishing services as the price of batteries keeps dropping. Imagine 10 years into a car, you've replaced tires and brakes. Now your battery pack is replaced by a lighter, more dense, less expensive pack.

They didn't learn from it because they didn't have their feet held to the fire like VW.
 

CaJLMetalHead

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I'm not convinced 4 motors will weigh less than the drive train and transfer case. Two motors, yes. Eliminate the drive train and you have additional battery volume available. While this is a concept, it would make much more sense to build fresh, from a blank sheet a BEV Wrangler. Too many compromises by using an ICE platform for BEV.
I think in-hub motors would be great for an off-roading rig.. sure. . we could debate all day about unsprung weight (it seems to be the favorite weapon of naysayers .. meanwhile Lordstown is hard at work producing a viable truck with in-hub motors that have been tested for years by both Lordstown and Elaphe.. here is a video) ... a design with in-hub motors eliminates transfer case.. transmission, axles, driveshafts.. all components that tend to wear and break on the trail... my take? out with the old.. in-hub with the new!! . design could still include solid axles in the front for more rock crawling fun


Here is TFLnow talking about the truck:

 

Bren

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How is this Jeep going to leak oil with an electric motor? Hopefully, Jeep will use some type of hydraulic or battery cooling fluid that will leak. I would not know what to do if I owned a Jeep that did not leak something.
If they're not plugged in, EVs lose a bit of range overnight as the car runs various systems - battery temp management, parking cams, waking when you open your car app on your phone, etc.

This is called "Vampire Drain".

Technically, it's a leak?
 

Bren

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Totally agree, it would be nice if they could at least all get on the same page & standardize the charging plugs (WITHOUT the .gov mandating something stupid)
This is already sort of happening. The J-1772 is virtually standard for level 2 charging, and DC Fast is the SAE CCS Combo, which adds an extra DC port to the J-1772, is becoming the standard for DC Fast charging (crowding out CHAdeMO). Tesla is the only outlier.
How much will the electric charging cost at a " Gas station? "
Motor fuels currently have Federal, State, and Local taxes, that equal a significant portion of the cost per gallon. Losing a significant portion of the income stream isn't an option, so seeing how an electric " gallon" will be figured cost wise will be interesting. If we figure we're going to save money by not buying gas, Surprise ! We will get hit a surcharge to pay for that missing tax the Government relies on .
For a little context I just drove my Tesla Model 3 Performance 800 miles in a single day, and it cost me ~$65 on Tesla's charging network. The same distance at an average of $2.50/gallon would have cost me about $100 in my Wrangler.
 

Bren

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Would you change your behavior if you could fill up at home for less money, and your home was only 50 miles away?

I don't see this working like a pump lane... it would be more like the air/water filling parking stall.
I've driven electric for about 5 years now, and one of the things I didn't expect was that after a while, getting gas is what feels like the nuisance.

My EV is my daily, and I charge it every night. The occasions that I drive over 300 miles are pretty infrequent, and so charging on those trips remains fairly novel and typically I don't mind a 20 minute stop to charge because I also want to do other things - restroom, food, etc.

Meanwhile my Wrangler NEEDS a gas stop every 4-5 days that I drive it. The perception over the long haul is that you're getting gas way more often than charging, even if you're spending less time at the "pump". After living like this for a while, getting gas is the frustrating part. Leaving the house and realizing you need gas is frustrating because it's something you never think about in the EV.

For this to be true though, the EV in your garage needs meaningful range. I agree that 75 miles isn't quite enough to drive without thinking about it. For me, that number is 300+ miles.
 

AnnDee4444

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I've driven electric for about 5 years now, and one of the things I didn't expect was that after a while, getting gas is what feels like the nuisance.

My EV is my daily, and I charge it every night. The occasions that I drive over 300 miles are pretty infrequent, and so charging on those trips remains fairly novel and typically I don't mind a 20 minute stop to charge because I also want to do other things - restroom, food, etc.

Meanwhile my Wrangler NEEDS a gas stop every 4-5 days that I drive it. The perception over the long haul is that you're getting gas way more often than charging, even if you're spending less time at the "pump". After living like this for a while, getting gas is the frustrating part. Leaving the house and realizing you need gas is frustrating because it's something you never think about in the EV.

For this to be true though, the EV in your garage needs meaningful range. I agree that 75 miles isn't quite enough to drive without thinking about it. For me, that number is 300+ miles.
The only thing keeping me from an EV daily driver right now is the complete lack of sports cars, and the cost of one when someone does decide to make it. I want the electric equivalent to a BRZ: about $35,000 basic RWD sports car. The base Model 3 is close, but the 4-door kills it for me.
 

WreckEm711

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For this to be true though, the EV in your garage needs meaningful range. I agree that 75 miles isn't quite enough to drive without thinking about it. For me, that number is 300+ miles.
This is my biggest concern, is needing more vehicles with a 300+ mile range, and confidence that I'll be able to charge it when I get near the end of that range.

Texas is a big place, I can drive hundreds of miles and still not get to where I need to be, and while infrequent, when I need to go that distance, it's not an option. I'm not married to ICE or EV like many seem to be (I'm guessing for political reasons), I just want the most reliable vehicle that's gonna get me everywhere I need to be!
 

Windshieldfarmer

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For a little context I just drove my Tesla Model 3 Performance 800 miles in a single day, and it cost me ~$65 on Tesla's charging network. The same distance at an average of $2.50/gallon would have cost me about $100 in my Wrangler.
[/QUOTE]

Tesla superchargers generally charge .28 per KWH. By comparison when using my home charger at night I pay .11 per KWH...which costs me the equivalent of a car that gets 60 it 70 mpg. My Model 3 is extremely inexpensive to drive using home sourced electricity...which is how most of us would charge our vehicles. When traveling, a lot of hotels offer destination chargers that are free....making the superchargers a bridge between cheap and free electricity.
 

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