four low

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In the future, if all personal transportation requires an electric powered vehicle that is dependant on an electric supply grid to recharge an EV's fuel supply, and millions of residence in southern Florida are ordered to evacuate the peninsula due to a massive hurricane predicted to be the biggest on record and said by so called experts to be caused by global warming, will the electric supply be adequate to charge all EV's at one time? How far north will people need to travel to escape uncertain death and will the escape vehicle need to be recharged during their flee?
Ever see the gridlock at gas stations , no fuel, then when power is out, gas can't be pumped...? Vehicles will have every square inch of surface area dedicated to charging, it will be a " bootstrap" vehicle, if mandates are compelling enough.





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40”JLURD

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It was just a matter of time before this happened. GM is rolling out the all electric hummer so it is just the way things are going. I'm fine with it as long as they continue to offer gas powered versions. I will say rescuing your buddy's all electric Wrangler with a dead battery is definetly going to suck.
If it’s anything like my Tesla - running the battery to zero won’t even be a possibility...

because if you do you’ve just totaled your car. The batteries can’t handle being fully discharged, ever.

I am highly doubting that FCA has superior battery technology to Tesla in this regard and therefore fail to see why their battery powered Jeep would be any different.

Draining to 0 not an option, unless you want to total your Jeep.

Sounds like a dumb ass Jeep model to me
 

INCRHULK

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What about all of the millions of existing homes? Will they have a solar roof as well? How much will it cost to add solar to an existing home? Will a solar roof be mandatory? How about making it mandatory that all owners of EV's must have there own power production source?

There are many unanswered questions.
Should all ICE vehicle owners have their own refineries and oil wells? The grid will grow to accommodate new demands, just like gasoline stations popped up everywhere to fuel the growing ICE market.
 

INCRHULK

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Ever see the gridlock at gas stations , no fuel, then when power is out, gas can't be pumped...? Vehicles will have every square inch of surface area dedicated to charging, it will be a " bootstrap" vehicle, if mandates are compelling enough.
I don’t think you can generate enough power from solar installed on the vehicle, but you can likely trickle charge or avoid vampire drains doing so.
 

AnnDee4444

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Electric vehicles are coming already here. Regulation is coming. Jeep can either:
A. Ignore completely and eventually end the Wrangler due to regulation/lack of demand for ICE
B. Build a EV Wrangler now, so that they can perfect what does/doesn't work for when I buy one.


and...
Z. Because I can already tell someone is going to add to my list to tell me how wrong I am.
 

Dash68

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Should all ICE vehicle owners have their own refineries and oil wells? The grid will grow to accommodate new demands, just like gasoline stations popped up everywhere to fuel the growing ICE market.
No
 

Bren

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What about all of the millions of existing homes? Will they have a solar roof as well? How much will it cost to add solar to an existing home? Will a solar roof be mandatory? How about making it mandatory that all owners of EV's must have there own power production source?

There are many unanswered questions.
Tesla has been very public about their goal of making a solar roof cheaper to install and more durable than a traditional roof, and they're getting closer. The idea is that when it comes time to replace the roof on your home, it's a no brainer to do it with solar tiles.

California is already mandating solar on new-build homes. Other states may follow.
In the future, if all personal transportation requires an electric powered vehicle that is dependant on an electric supply grid to recharge an EV's fuel supply, and millions of residence in southern Florida are ordered to evacuate the peninsula due to a massive hurricane predicted to be the biggest on record and said by so called experts to be caused by global warming, will the electric supply be adequate to charge all EV's at one time? How far north will people need to travel to escape uncertain death and will the escape vehicle need to be recharged during their flee?
I'm not sure how this is different from gas. If you need to flee, you may or may not need gas in that moment, causing a run on gas stations (who also have a limited supply). There are more gas stations than plugs, but that's in part because all cars must visit a gas station at some point (you can't gas up at home). Meanwhile EVs that are charged at home are ready to cover 300-500 miles and will not need to lean on public networks. That means it'll only be those who were not capable of charging at home hitting those public stations, but keep in mind that you don't need to charge to 100% to flee, you only need enough to get to the next plug, which is presumably at a safer evacuation distance. 5-10 minutes might be enough for many of the cars coming through.

Even the most optimistic estimates think EVs will have less than 30% market share by 2030. Hybrids will remain part of the mix for quite a while. we have time to figure this scenario out, to let solar improve and play out, and let batteries improve to the point of 500+ miles per charge and charge times decreasing.
 

ThirtyOne

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What about all of the millions of existing homes? Will they have a solar roof as well? How much will it cost to add solar to an existing home? Will a solar roof be mandatory? How about making it mandatory that all owners of EV's must have there own power production source?

There are many unanswered questions.
You are right. there are many unanswered questions. That’s why you can’t project today’s environment and technology into the future with the only change being more EVs.
 

Mr Lee

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Ev's are coming. Like it or not.
The first wranglers won't be for me but the way battery tech is going I expect in a few years I will want one.
In your State how much in the price of a gallon of gas is tax? When EV's start to go mainstream how will your Government off set this? A drastic increase in electricity cost? A tax on miles driven? With the money we as taxpayers are going to have to pay in the future because of Covid relief now you know the government is not going to let us charge on our current housing electrical rates.
 

Dash68

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The first electric battery powered vehicle was invented in Scotland in the 1830's. About 30 years before the ICE. It's interesting to ponder how advanced BEV's would have been today if it wasn't for the proliferation of the ICE for personal vehicle transportation. I am excited to see how PHEV and BEV vehicles advance in the near future. I never thought I would witness an electric powered Jeep Wrangler in my lifetime but here it is. My next new vehicle might just be a fully electric 2 door Wrangler. I would have considered the PHEV Wrangler if available in a 2 door.
 

HardSell

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First they show an Fiat 500 EV-only, which is going to be a hard sell.
Someone dropping my name here?
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.jpg

Lets see.... 75 times 300 sq feet= 22,500 sqft.... about 1/2 acre.
 

AnnDee4444

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Someone dropping my name here?
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.jpg

Lets see.... 75 times 300 sq feet= 22,500 sqft.... about 1/2 acre.
You're confusing kw with kWh. They are not the same thing. In car terms kW = HP and kWh = miles. Also 10 square meters = 107.639 square feet... not 300.

I ran a simple test using www.csi-epbb.com. One typical 330W panel on an ideal fixed tilt in my zip code will produce about 500 kWh annually, which is an average of 1.4 kWh per panel per day. Summer production should be above average, which is actually when it will see it's peak usage. Ignoring that, and assuming the Jeep will come with a 100 kWh battery pack, you could get one single full charge per day with 72 panels.

Each solar panel is roughly 78" x 40", or roughly 21.66 square feet per panel. 72 of these panels would cover 1560 square feet, which is about a 40'x40' area... sort of like what the rendering looks like.
 
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HardSell

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Also 10 square meters = 107.639 square feet... not 300.
You're quite right. The panel shown in the illustration though, would be about 160 sqft, about 1/10 of the area required to yield a full charge in 10-12 hours to wheel a 5500lb Wrangler in low range for whatever distance a 100kWh charge would allow. Not to speculate against future technology achieving that capability, but today field charging from solar collectors is not reality.
you could get one single full charge per day with 72 panels.
My half acre example was meant to suggest the number of solar panels required for a 1/2 hour super charge which brings practicality of time spent charging vs resource allocation into perspective. Moreover, the losses to inverter inefficiency, distance resistance, maintenance, sky conditions and solar angles aren't even considered. The point for me is a solar panel on a carport roof is not going to yield a satisfactory Jeeping experience as suggested by the slick illustration and propaganda.

Perhaps a portable battery on a trailer charged by solar panels would suffice.
Big battery.jpg

But:
10,276solarPnels..jpg

What actually is required and happens using solar energy resources for transportation applications is indefinite at best, 4-wheeling notwithstanding. I guess though, we'll be finding out.

Thanks, AnnDee, for your input.
 

AnnDee4444

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You're quite right. The panel shown in the illustration though, would be about 160 sqft, about 1/10 of the area required to yield a full charge in 10-12 hours to wheel a 5500lb Wrangler in low range for whatever distance a 100kWh charge would allow. Not to speculate against future technology achieving that capability, but today field charging from solar collectors is not reality.
I disagree. The array looks to be roughly twice the length of a 15.6' long 4-door. Can't really tell width, but I'll assume that it's 32' square. I also chose a pretty average panel, and it would probably be best to choose a higher wattage (more expensive) panel for remote locations like this. FWIW: Sunpower currently makes a 470W panel that's roughly the same square footage.


My half acre example was meant to suggest the number of solar panels required for a 1/2 hour super charge which brings practicality of time spent charging vs resource allocation into perspective. Moreover, the losses to inverter inefficiency, distance resistance, maintenance, sky conditions and solar angles aren't even considered. The point for me is a solar panel on a carport roof is not going to yield a satisfactory Jeeping experience as suggested by the slick illustration and propaganda.
It's not realistic to expect to charge directly from the solar panels to the Jeep's battery for the reasons you mention. I was assuming from the beginning that these would have batteries. Also I don't see any reason why this system would need an inverter at all, since there is no reason to provide AC power.

I'm assuming by distance resistance you are referring to voltage drop. This shouldn't be an issue either as these would likely be a 600V DC array, or possibly higher. Voltage drop would be minimal as long as the wire size was correct.

Perhaps a portable battery on a trailer charged by solar panels would suffice.
Big battery.jpg
This thing is so cool... It claims to be able to charge 100 cars before it needs to be recharged. Not really trail-worthy though.

But:
10,276solarPnels..jpg

What actually is required and happens using solar energy resources for transportation applications is indefinite at best, 4-wheeling notwithstanding. I guess though, we'll be finding out.

Thanks, AnnDee, for your input.
Motorbiscuit is assuming no batteries, and has their math completely wrong. For 10,267 solar panels to only produce 7.7 kW (a.k.a. 7700 watts), each panel would only need to produce less than one watt. This could probably be achieved at night time unless there was a new moon.

7.7 kW is not very large either, and works out to a 40A 240V AC breaker (I bet this is actually why they chose 7.7 kW instead of 8 kW). This is roughly the size of some residential ovens or dryers. In fact many houses (including mine) have a 7.7kW inverter for 24-36 panels (depending on size, age, year installed, etc.).
 

muskynut

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Ok being all electric, will it still be able to ford 30 inches of water without shorting out?
 

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