Hazaa

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You realize you can charge this at your home over night right?

You do not need a public charger unless you plan on driving more than your range in one day. So there will not likely be a line at gas/charge stations any time soon. By the time where you have a majority of drivers with EVs that are needing charge ups during the day battery and charger tech should be able to bring it down to reasonable time. And yes if you are going on a trip you will still need to stop for a bit, but 200~ miles is over 3 hours of driving so I would want to get a food and stretch for at least 30 minutes any ways. And if you don't think there are enough public charges to do long trips trying looking on a EV trip planner, because there are.

Someone brought up Tesla with there range being 200~ and they have 100kwh battery. Sorry but that is not correct. The 100 platform of the S and X have 300~ miles of range. And this is mostly from the stupid performance the motors have. The model 3 and Y have 75~kwh battery and can get 300~ miles because they have a less powerful motor setup. The S and X having roughly 700-1000hp and the 3 and Y roughly 500hp. Jeep is not going to put a 500+ hp motor in their BEVs. They could get away with 200~ hp because that should be over 300 ftlb of torque. This would be already be more more torque than the "normal" Jeeps.

For reference the Chevy bolt has 66kwh battery and gets 200+ miles. If jeep put in a 70+kwh battery pack system they should be able to get 200+ miles out of a Wrangler if they use a multi speed transmission.

Which leads to why they have a trans, transfer case and drive axels.

1: Transmissions are fairly cheap(for a manufacturer) especially if it is 3 speed(2 forward, 1 reverse). With a less powerful motor this will help to keep energy use down on the highway. It will also help with easy of use since we are all use to this style of shifting.

2: A transfer case makes it so you don't need more than one motor. IE: keeps cost down, as transfer cases would be cheaper than more motors, wiring and controls boards. Plus you don't have to build a whole new drive system.

3: Axels - see transfer case, as well as combined with the transfer case you could gear the hell out of it and slow speed off road for days. And by the way the Rubicon trail is only 22 miles, and you would use a lot less electricity in those 22 miles with that setup than gas.

4: If you use those parts it also: Keeps the parts cots down since you are buying in bulk, can use the same assembly line for remaining ICE or PHEV Wranglers, keep the vehicle handling the same, allows for easier aftermarket modification with existing designs, and finally allows for the faster conversion of the existing platform without a complete rework.

Is the Jeep Wrangler BEV going to be perfect? No

Will it allow Jeep to be competitive in the future? Yes

Do most of you need to be able to drive more than 200-300 miles on a single charge even when off-roading? No, and for those of you that do. Sorry maybe you should wait till the battery tech gets to 500 miles per charge. But don't hate this because it doesn't fit your niche needs/wants.

We should be happy Jeep is trying to make the Wrangler a vehicle that will be around for 70 more years and not be eliminated because it is not fuel efficient enough and the fan base wont accept electrification.





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ThirtyOne

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You realize you can charge this at your home over night right?

You do not need a public charger unless you plan on driving more than your range in one day. So there will not likely be a line at gas/charge stations any time soon. By the time where you have a majority of drivers with EVs that are needing charge ups during the day battery and charger tech should be able to bring it down to reasonable time. And yes if you are going on a trip you will still need to stop for a bit, but 200~ miles is over 3 hours of driving so I would want to get a food and stretch for at least 30 minutes any ways. And if you don't think there are enough public charges to do long trips trying looking on a EV trip planner, because there are.

Someone brought up Tesla with there range being 200~ and they have 100kwh battery. Sorry but that is not correct. The 100 platform of the S and X have 300~ miles of range. And this is mostly from the stupid performance the motors have. The model 3 and Y have 75~kwh battery and can get 300~ miles because they have a less powerful motor setup. The S and X having roughly 700-1000hp and the 3 and Y roughly 500hp. Jeep is not going to put a 500+ hp motor in their BEVs. They could get away with 200~ hp because that should be over 300 ftlb of torque. This would be already be more more torque than the "normal" Jeeps.

For reference the Chevy bolt has 66kwh battery and gets 200+ miles. If jeep put in a 70+kwh battery pack system they should be able to get 200+ miles out of a Wrangler if they use a multi speed transmission.

Which leads to why they have a trans, transfer case and drive axels.

1: Transmissions are fairly cheap(for a manufacturer) especially if it is 3 speed(2 forward, 1 reverse). With a less powerful motor this will help to keep energy use down on the highway. It will also help with easy of use since we are all use to this style of shifting.

2: A transfer case makes it so you don't need more than one motor. IE: keeps cost down, as transfer cases would be cheaper than more motors, wiring and controls boards. Plus you don't have to build a whole new drive system.

3: Axels - see transfer case, as well as combined with the transfer case you could gear the hell out of it and slow speed off road for days. And by the way the Rubicon trail is only 22 miles, and you would use a lot less electricity in those 22 miles with that setup than gas.

4: If you use those parts it also: Keeps the parts cots down since you are buying in bulk, can use the same assembly line for remaining ICE or PHEV Wranglers, keep the vehicle handling the same, allows for easier aftermarket modification with existing designs, and finally allows for the faster conversion of the existing platform without a complete rework.

Is the Jeep Wrangler BEV going to be perfect? No

Will it allow Jeep to be competitive in the future? Yes

Do most of you need to be able to drive more than 200-300 miles on a single charge even when off-roading? No, and for those of you that do. Sorry maybe you should wait till the battery tech gets to 500 miles per charge. But don't hate this because it doesn't fit your niche needs/wants.

We should be happy Jeep is trying to make the Wrangler a vehicle that will be around for 70 more years and not be eliminated because it is not fuel efficient enough and the fan base wont accept electrification.
The fan base is not monolithic and will ultimately accept electrification. Just like performance cars. Some just like the rumble of a big V8. The majority will move on. Not because they love the earth, but because the tech is novel and the driving dynamics are great.
 

AnnDee4444

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Bren

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You realize you can charge this at your home over night right?

You do not need a public charger unless you plan on driving more than your range in one day. So there will not likely be a line at gas/charge stations any time soon. By the time where you have a majority of drivers with EVs that are needing charge ups during the day battery and charger tech should be able to bring it down to reasonable time. And yes if you are going on a trip you will still need to stop for a bit, but 200~ miles is over 3 hours of driving so I would want to get a food and stretch for at least 30 minutes any ways. And if you don't think there are enough public charges to do long trips trying looking on a EV trip planner, because there are.

Someone brought up Tesla with there range being 200~ and they have 100kwh battery. Sorry but that is not correct. The 100 platform of the S and X have 300~ miles of range. And this is mostly from the stupid performance the motors have. The model 3 and Y have 75~kwh battery and can get 300~ miles because they have a less powerful motor setup. The S and X having roughly 700-1000hp and the 3 and Y roughly 500hp. Jeep is not going to put a 500+ hp motor in their BEVs. They could get away with 200~ hp because that should be over 300 ftlb of torque. This would be already be more more torque than the "normal" Jeeps.

For reference the Chevy bolt has 66kwh battery and gets 200+ miles. If jeep put in a 70+kwh battery pack system they should be able to get 200+ miles out of a Wrangler if they use a multi speed transmission.

Which leads to why they have a trans, transfer case and drive axels.

1: Transmissions are fairly cheap(for a manufacturer) especially if it is 3 speed(2 forward, 1 reverse). With a less powerful motor this will help to keep energy use down on the highway. It will also help with easy of use since we are all use to this style of shifting.

2: A transfer case makes it so you don't need more than one motor. IE: keeps cost down, as transfer cases would be cheaper than more motors, wiring and controls boards. Plus you don't have to build a whole new drive system.

3: Axels - see transfer case, as well as combined with the transfer case you could gear the hell out of it and slow speed off road for days. And by the way the Rubicon trail is only 22 miles, and you would use a lot less electricity in those 22 miles with that setup than gas.

4: If you use those parts it also: Keeps the parts cots down since you are buying in bulk, can use the same assembly line for remaining ICE or PHEV Wranglers, keep the vehicle handling the same, allows for easier aftermarket modification with existing designs, and finally allows for the faster conversion of the existing platform without a complete rework.

Is the Jeep Wrangler BEV going to be perfect? No

Will it allow Jeep to be competitive in the future? Yes

Do most of you need to be able to drive more than 200-300 miles on a single charge even when off-roading? No, and for those of you that do. Sorry maybe you should wait till the battery tech gets to 500 miles per charge. But don't hate this because it doesn't fit your niche needs/wants.

We should be happy Jeep is trying to make the Wrangler a vehicle that will be around for 70 more years and not be eliminated because it is not fuel efficient enough and the fan base wont accept electrification.
A couple points of clarity that ultimately support your point. Model S and X 100kWh packs now have ~400 miles of range.

By the time this EV Jeep comes out, it's likely there WILL be 500 mile batteries on the market (Cybertruck, etc) but I don't have faith that Jeep has done the R&D or reserved a seat at the supply chain table to make these things happen in a Wrangler. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised, but the fact they didn't even give the 4xe DC Fast compatibility makes me think they're going to be a generation behind in whatever tech they roll out at the time.

Which means we'll get a 250-300mi Wrangler in 2-3 years time. Which I still think is super compelling, but it will not solve for everyone's needs (which is fine, but a missed opportunity).
 

Hazaa

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Yea the highest range version can get that now, and the plaid trims will be pushing 500-600 miles. But those are also $100k+ vehicles.

I think a reasonably priced BEV Wrangler with 300~ miles of range will be great. My Current Rubicon gets less than 300 stock with the 3.6 v6.

I can see the 4 door getting more battery room and thus getting more range. But thats how it is now with the ICE setup.

But in the end the range only matters based on your longest 1 day trip. And for 70% or more of vehicle owners they don't drive more than 200 miles in a day.

I really just hope regardless of range it is affordable and can be an alternative to other trims not a luxury trim upgrade.
 

xray

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Yea the highest range version can get that now, and the plaid trims will be pushing 500-600 miles. But those are also $100k+ vehicles.

I think a reasonably priced BEV Wrangler with 300~ miles of range will be great. My Current Rubicon gets less than 300 stock with the 3.6 v6.

I can see the 4 door getting more battery room and thus getting more range. But thats how it is now with the ICE setup.

But in the end the range only matters based on your longest 1 day trip. And for 70% or more of vehicle owners they don't drive more than 200 miles in a day.

I really just hope regardless of range it is affordable and can be an alternative to other trims not a luxury trim upgrade.
This brings up another common EV advantage, which is operational cost. Cost to charge + actual maintenance costs are insanely low. Of course we don't trust FCA, so electrical reliability might be a sinker, but in general an EV doesn't cost anything to operate other than the initial cost, insurance and relatively cheap kWh charging.

As an example, I am getting 15Mpgs, which would be brutal for commuting. In a sunny, solar-happy state, that cost plummets to the other two factors.
 

rallydefault

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You realize you can charge this at your home over night right?
Exactly, but that's also an issue for more people than you seem to be acknowledging.

I do have a garage that I can put my jeep in if I must (it's small and we mostly use it for other stuff, but we can clear out a small space if need be), but not everyone has a garage or a parking space right up against their house and outlets. Not everyone has a house; millions upon millions of people live in an apartment, and a good deal of those people don't live in apartment complexes with a parking garage or designated parking area where chargers can be installed. For a good portion of my life I lived in large cities in renovated row homes and just had to park on the street wherever I could find a spot. With current and near-future charging infrastructure, that would mean I'd be 100% out of luck when it came to charging at night at "home." And it's probably gonna be that way for a lot of people for quite a few years to come.

Having the public charging infrastructure does matter. A lot. And to a lot of people. But again, there's gonna be a good 5-10 years of electric and ICE vehicles coexisting before the full-on move to electric takes hold in earnest.
 

Hazaa

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I never said this was everyone. But just because it doesn't fit your lifestyle now, does not mean it should not be a thing.

But the charging infrastructure is better than most people realize. And with all the major manufacturers getting on board with EVs, they are and will continue to invest in bettering the charging infrastructure.

Cities are also the fastest growing EV area, so there most be something available for all those people who don't have personal charging setups.
 

rallydefault

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I never said this was everyone. But just because it doesn't fit your lifestyle now, does not mean it should not be a thing.
I never said you said it was everyone; I said you didn't seem to be acknowledging a great many people in living situations likely different from your own. Big difference.

You're also just not reading my point. I never said it shouldn't happen. Where did I say it shouldn't happen? I said the current charging situation isn't as rosy as you made it out to be. Not everyone lives in suburbia. Not everyone lives in a city that's fast adopting charging stations. And not everyone living in an apartment lives in a city. And I'm sure there are living situations of all stripes that I can't even think of right now.

So just read what I'm writing and don't add assumptions. Your post is excellent and I largely agree with it, but it's obviously written from the perspective of someone who either lives in an area with charging options or has easy charging solutions at home. Many of us don't, and that needs to be acknowledged because that's the current reality and likely reality for a few years to come.
 

Dash68

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In the future, if all personal transportation requires an electric powered vehicle that is dependent on an electric supply grid to recharge an EV's fuel supply, which has been mentioned in this thread could be achieved at night during low peak hours at a reduced cost, there will no longer be a discounted off peak hours charging rate as electric power consumption will rise at night.
 

Dash68

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In the future, if all personal transportation requires an electric powered vehicle that is dependant on an electric supply grid to recharge an EV's fuel supply, and millions of residence in southern Florida are ordered to evacuate the peninsula due to a massive hurricane predicted to be the biggest on record and said by so called experts to be caused by global warming, will the electric supply be adequate to charge all EV's at one time? How far north will people need to travel to escape uncertain death and will the escape vehicle need to be recharged during their flee?
 

ThirtyOne

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In the future, if all personal transportation requires an electric powered vehicle that is dependent on an electric supply grid to recharge an EV's fuel supply, which has been mentioned in this thread could be achieved at night during low peak hours at a reduced cost, there will no longer be a discounted off peak hours charging rate as electric power consumption will rise at night.
In the future, all new homes will have a solar roof too. And battery tech will be more efficient. These things will offset the lack of off-peak rates.
 

Dash68

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In the future, all new homes will have a solar roof too. And battery tech will be more efficient. These things will offset the lack of off-peak rates.
What about all of the millions of existing homes? Will they have a solar roof as well? How much will it cost to add solar to an existing home? Will a solar roof be mandatory? How about making it mandatory that all owners of EV's must have there own power production source?

There are many unanswered questions.
 

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