ALCON 6 PISTON FRONT VS TERALFLEX DELTA BRAKES

[Whaler27]

People want to show off stuff. The more expensive the more that want it to be shiny and scream “look at me”. Brakes aren’t regularly seen unless you rolled over or people are watching you change a tire. Lol. I personally could care less if someone likes what I did to my Jeep. I had my reason to buy and use a part and was willing to pay the price for quality. Well within my budget. Not to say it doesn’t feel nice when someone says they like my Jeep or a particular part I deciddd on. But many people want validation for everything they do to their Jeep. And hidden brakes are hard to quantify to most others. And safety? Lol. Ummm most people could care less and it’s made obvious in their choice of lifts, rims, tires, etc. so those people don’t understand why these types of brake systems cost what they do.

I hadn’t looked at it through that lens, but that makes sense.

When I was a teen and a twenty-something I probably cared more about what others think, particularly when I was fishing for my future wife. Everybody wanted a nice vehicle, of course, but there was nothing like today’s variety of flashy stuff to do to Jeeps — and a Jeep couldn’t be turned into a status symbol no matter what you did with it. A fancy Jeep would have been sorta like having the shiniest wheelbarrow. The cool people all had hot rods or foreign cars. Funny how times change.

For most of us, one of the few benefits of getting older is you care even less about what others think. Maybe this is why so many little old ladies wear ugly flower-patterned dresses? For me, these brakes are one of the coolest mods. I looked at the distance between the paint hash marks on the pavement and imagined how many deer, kids, vehicles might appear in between the black marks and the green ones and I feel like I probably should have done the brakes before the lift/wheels/tires and other weight-adding modifications.

Lots of people don’t realize how quickly vehicle weight increases as Jeeps are modified, because the increases happen in small bites. In addition to wheels and tires I’ve added a winch, rear bumper and tire carrier, heavier steps/rock-rails, roof rack system, two extra batteries, a compressor, a rear shelf, radios and antennas, and tools that I routinely carry. A 500 pound increase amounts to 10%, and lots of guys have added closer to 20% of additional weight, a significant chunk of which is rotating mass, which dramatically affects braking. And yet, they think they have no “braking issues”. YIkes.

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[Bic]

There are negative posts because most people are eager to pay thousands on a lift and bigger wheels and tires for "the look", but they would NEVER pay a few thousand for brakes that actually make them safer. The same is true in the motorcycle world. Idiots will happily spend thousands on a sportbike that breaks the speed limit in 1st gear, but they scoff at the idea of spending a few hundred on adequate riding gear.

 

[Whaler27]

One last note from my perspective: when it comes to jeeps and pickup trucks, engine choice and horsepower are irrelevant to the question of whether to install better brakes (except to the extent that engine choice effects gross vehicle weight.) As far as brakes are concerned, it doesn’t matter whether it took the Jeep five seconds or twelve seconds to reach 60 mph. What matters is the Jeep’s speed and weight, the grade of the road you’re on, and whether you’re headed uphill or downhill.

 

[guarnibl]

One last note from my perspective: when it comes to jeeps and pickup trucks, engine choice and horsepower are irrelevant to the question of whether to install better brakes (except to the extent that engine choice effects gross vehicle weight.) As far as brakes are concerned, it doesn’t matter whether it took the Jeep five seconds or twelve seconds to reach 60 mph. What matters is the Jeep’s speed and weight, the grade of the road you’re on, and whether you’re headed uphill or downhill.

And the distance in which you’re exercising it’s legs.

 

[roaniecowpony]

All the research I’ve seen says the Alcon brakes are much better. My brother’s experience with Alcon confirms that.

After buying his Alcons he had a chance to visit with the engineer who is the point guy for Alcon sales in the USA. Most of Alcon’s business is actually British military vehicles. I think the civilian/racing use are both comparatively small markets for them.

I really liked the Teraflex auto-bleed feature, and I think they make some great products, but I think their Chinese-made brake systems are a distant second to Alcon.

My Alcon‘s just arrived by FedEx about ten minutes ago. I need to get some time off to clear space in the shop and bolt’em up. I’m hoping I can do that between Christmas and New Years.

Realizing this is an older thread, but it still gets traffic and I think it's worth noting Teraflex stated the following in another thread, which counters the statement above about being Chinese made.
"We hand build and assemble the Delta kits here in Utah, so they're not always fully built and boxed up on the shelf ready to go. Most of the time we build them to order, which is a 1-2 week process. It may be worth checking if a vendor or local shop has them built on their shelf ready to ship."

Also, I have the Delta brakes and as an engineer and former machine shop owner, I can attest to the Delta brake quality. They are extremely well made and have piston dust boots, which even my Wildwood brakes on my truck don't have.

One last point, which goes to the title of this thread: little, if any technical information on the Teraflex Delta brakes was posted in this thread. So here's a bit. The Teraflex Delta brakes are 14" x 1.25" , front and rear, vs the Alcon 13.77" x 1.25" front and 13" x 0.90" rear. The Teraflex calipers have four (4) 2.0" diameter pistons per caliper in the front, for a total piston area of 12.56 sq in per caliper, and four (4) 1.375" diameter pistons in the rear for a total piston area of 5.93 sq in per caliper. I could not locate dimensional technical data for the Alcon calipers. The Teraflex calipers have a traditional accordian style piston boot to keep the piston clean. Alcon calipers have a wiper seal to keep the piston clean.

Edit: I located the piston sizes of the Alcon calipers.
The front Alcon calipers have six (6), 1.625" diameter pistons, for a total piston area of 12.44" per caliper, (nearly the same as the Teraflex). The Alcon rear calipers have the same number of pistons and piston area as the Teraflex rear calipers. So, the effective dimensional differences are mainly in the rotor dimensions. The Alcon calipers are 2 piece cast iron, whereas the Teraflex calipers are 4 piece, with the 2 piston bodies being forged aluminum and the 2 bridges being cast iron to minimize flexing. All said, they are close dimensionally, with the biggest dimensional difference being the 1" smaller diameter rear rotors of the Alcon brakes.

 

[Whaler27]

I have purchased a lot of Teraflex stuff over the years, and most of it has been very well made. Even my current JL has Teraflex control arms and Falcon e-adjust shocks. If their brakes are now actually made in the USA that would be great.

My Alcons are incredible. It feels like their braking continued to improve, though I didn’t duplicate the test exercise. They also fit inside my 17” wheels (two sets), which was a significant consideration. If I had to buy another ten wheels and tires to accommodate the Teraflex brakes the comparative bargain would have evaporated.

 

[roaniecowpony]

I have purchased a lot of Teraflex stuff over the years, and most of it has been very well made. Even my current JL has Teraflex control arms and Falcon e-adjust shocks. If their brakes are now actually made in the USA that would be great.

My Alcons are incredible. It feels like their braking continued to improve, though I didn’t duplicate the test exercise. They also fit inside my 17” wheels (two sets), which was a significant consideration. If I had to buy another ten wheels and tires to accommodate the Teraflex brakes the comparative bargain would have evaporated.

Alex,
I just wanted to give the folks at Teraflex a fair shake on this thread, since often people search these old threads when shopping. I've had Brembo and Wilwood on vehicles for years, but never Alcon. I'm sure they are as good as their reputation. Teraflex is a bit of a newcomer to brakes. But they did an outstanding job on these. I put the Delta brakes on last week and left for a trail running trip within a couple days afterward. Granted it was towed, but during the week we had to drive the jeep on the highway in mountainous terrain and they were a clear advantage over the Rubicon OEM brakes.

Unlike some of the folks that debated you in this thread, I'm with you in that you can't have too much brake capacity. But you can easily have too little, and the OEM brakes, with 37s in a 4 door, is too little, in my opinion. I purchased the Delta brakes many months before I installed 37s, knowing they would diminish braking significantly. While your point about increased weight and rotating mass is accurate, a factor often marginalized, is the longer moment arm of a larger tire. This causes a significant mechanical leverage force increase as the radius of the tire increases.

 

[blnewt]

I have purchased a lot of Teraflex stuff over the years, and most of it has been very well made. Even my current JL has Teraflex control arms and Falcon e-adjust shocks. If their brakes are now actually made in the USA that would be great.

My Alcons are incredible. It feels like their braking continued to improve, though I didn’t duplicate the test exercise. They also fit inside my 17” wheels (two sets), which was a significant consideration. If I had to buy another ten wheels and tires to accommodate the Teraflex brakes the comparative bargain would have evaporated.

From what I've read recently from @CarbonSteel his 17" wheels fit over the Teraflex rotors/calipers.

Good stuff in this thread, been a while since visiting it, keep it going, and hell yeah, brake improvements are definitely a worthwhile addition along w/ all the rather extreme loads we put on these vehicles.

 

[roaniecowpony]

From what I've read recently from @CarbonSteel his 17" wheels fit over the Teraflex rotors/calipers.

Good stuff in this thread, been a while since visiting it, keep it going, and hell yeah, brake improvements are definitely a worthwhile addition along w/ all the rather extreme loads we put on these vehicles.

My Dirty Life Canyon 17" wheels with 3.5" backspace, fit over the Teraflex Delta brakes with a lot of clearance. Probably 1/2"

 

[Jeep Dude]

My only issue with these bigger brakes y'all speaking of, is that when it is time for brake rotor replacement, one can only use their proprietary rotors. No cross referencing part numbers on rotors here, at least not to my knowledge as of yet?

This is an absolute deal breaker for me, considering that I travel cross continent with my ride.

If my rotors were to warp, or screw up for whatever reason, I want to be able to go into any auto parts store, cross reference a set of rotors and pads, and be done with it.

I also rarely travel at highway speeds of over 75+mph like some do on here with their lifted Jeeps on larger tires. I lock the cruise control at 60-65 max, elbow on door, and relax , whilst I enjoy and savour my surroundings.

Big brake kit on my other FAST toys, sure 100% .

On my off-grid, cross continent excursion machine? Thanks, but no thanks.

 

[roaniecowpony]

My only issue with these bigger brakes y'all speaking of, is that when it is time for brake rotor replacement, one can only use their proprietary rotors. No cross referencing part numbers on rotors here, at least not to my knowledge as of yet?

This is an absolute deal breaker for me, considering that I travel cross continent with my ride.

If my rotors were to warp, or screw up for whatever reason, I want to be able to go into any auto parts store, cross reference a set of rotors and pads, and be done with it.

I also rarely travel at highway speeds of over 75+mph like some do on here with their lifted Jeeps on larger tires. I lock the cruise control at 60-65 max, elbow on door, and relax , whilst I enjoy and savour my surroundings.

Big brake kit on my other FAST toys, sure 100% .

On my off-grid, cross continent excursion machine? Thanks, but no thanks.

That's certainly a consideration. There are so many 'what ifs' that could bring a trip to a stop (pun) in these modern Jeeps that we could go on for months about them. Fortunately, communications and shipping has gotten pretty impressive. All it takes is money. This past week, I ran over a ratchet strap in the road and trashed a 37" tire with less than 1000 miles on it. Even in Phoenix, I couldn't find a replacement that day, even a different make and model. I tried several off-road stores and called around. The parts guy at one store said he could have one in a day or two.

 

[CarbonSteel]

From what I've read recently from @CarbonSteel his 17" wheels fit over the Teraflex rotors/calipers.

They fit Icon Alphas with "0" offset and 4.75" backspace with about 5/16-3/8" clearance on the backside face of the wheel and plenty of clearance on the barrel part.

While it could be a concern for some related to proprietary parts, it is not a concern for me given the quality of the components AND you have 4 pistons on each wheel. The thickness of the rotors suggests they can be turned if needed.

The other consideration is cost. I believe I paid as much for the Teraflex front and rears as some charge for just the fronts.

I have not been a big fan of Teraflex in the past, but these brakes are worth every penny and use 2015 Toyota Tundra pads so there are options.

 

[Whaler27]

My only issue with these bigger brakes y'all speaking of, is that when it is time for brake rotor replacement, one can only use their proprietary rotors. No cross referencing part numbers on rotors here, at least not to my knowledge as of yet?

This is an absolute deal breaker for me, considering that I travel cross continent with my ride.

If my rotors were to warp, or screw up for whatever reason, I want to be able to go into any auto parts store, cross reference a set of rotors and pads, and be done with it.

I also rarely travel at highway speeds of over 75+mph like some do on here with their lifted Jeeps on larger tires. I lock the cruise control at 60-65 max, elbow on door, and relax , whilst I enjoy and savour my surroundings.

Big brake kit on my other FAST toys, sure 100% .

On my off-grid, cross continent excursion machine? Thanks, but no thanks.

I generally prefer flexible/fungible solutions too but, for me, this is kinda like swapping to custom-fabbed one-ton axels. If you break one in a remote area there is no convenient, fast fix, but the odds of breaking one are reduced to close to zero. The Alcons are thick and very effective at dissipating heat. If they were super-heated to the point if warping, which is unlikely given my grandfatherly driving and attention to safety, I can have them turned (or get a replacement shipped). Alcon’s persistent success with designs for heavy military trucks, and the absence of internet horror stories about their Wrangler brakes, also improved my confidence in them.

 

[Jeep Dude]

......The Alcons are thick and very effective at dissipating heat. If they were super-heated to the point if warping, which is unlikely given my grandfatherly driving and attention to safety, I can have them turned (or get a replacement shipped)......

I understand, I catch your drift, and agree on your other points, alas there are other factors to consider.

I've never warped rotors from overheating them in my entire life, but I have warped rotors, when driving through cold water, right after a normal cycle of braking events.

Chrysler corporation brake rotors, have been notorious in the past, for warping rotors, right after driving through near freezing level deep puddles, after a braking event.

I'm willing to bet many did not know this? ; )

Not saying the OEM Jeep rotors are weak, but the scarring is now permanent.

On my other point regarding logistics, when I wrote I travel cross continent, I'm not talking driving L.A to N.Y per say. I'm talking, South America, Europe, N.A.

I don't want to be calling up the rotors propriety Mothership in a time of need, only to hear them say,

"Sorry we don't ship Internationally,"

because I will lose it. lol

Hope you understand my perspective now.

 

[conFUcius]

How do the Alcons and TF brake kits compare to the OEM Rubicon ones? Maybe I misunderstood but I thought the Rubicons had larger brakes than the other trims?

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