After purchasing 7 new Wranglers since 2012 I think I'm done

[rogo66]

the Gladiator is going to use all the same parts including the terrible steering setup, and use the same do-anything-to-get-out-of-actually-doing-anything dealer service departments. nobody should buy these until FCA addresses the problems.

Why do you think the 2020 Gladiator will use the same steering setup as the 2018 models? Seems they would build off the 2019 steering set up which has remedied most if not all steering issues.

I would think the 2020 Gladiator would be the proud recipient of all updates/upgrades that fixed issues from the previous 2 years. I mean it's just a JL with a bed ;-)

@TTEChris, @TankGirl, sorry to hear about all your issues with the dealers. I hope you keep your jeeps and continue to post on here. It's because of you guys that I have Roam Offroad parts on my jeep...

Sponsored

 

[Carbonalpine]

Same here with my wife’s Audi Q5 which didn’t cost as much as my Moab. I traded my 2015 BMW X5 for my Moab realizing service would not be the same. Knock on wood, so far no major problems with my 2019 Moab. I have found that BMW, Mercedes and Audi technicians have the required training to fix all problems and the service staff are very professional. Oh, you are right about the coffee, water, soft drinks and snacks. All free and clean waiting areas. I will keep my fingers crossed for the next two years.

Bmw and Mercedes have highly qualified techs. And when you go to an advisor they work with a team of techs that are more qualified for whatever issue you complained about. And if all this fails, they have techs from the factory that come in. They don’t want your car returning for the same issue. I took my JKU in for water leaks 5 times and they didn’t care, after I went myself to the mechanic station I put their hose on my hardtop and clearly showed them where the leak is. I swear I feel they hire high school drop outs.

 

[Solidaxle]

What else do you buy? There’s no other vehicle like it , if you’re done with jeep you’re done with this lifestyle there is no other vehicle with straight axles removable tops and you want a manual transmission good luck. Jeeps always been this way if you have a lot of jeeps or you were older you will understand the Jeep brand has always been this way.
suck it up , try another one or move on to a cushy new suv those are the only choices.

 

[beachbumm78]

What else do you buy? There’s no other vehicle like it , if you’re done with jeep you’re done with this lifestyle there is no other vehicle with straight axles removable tops and you want a manual transmission good luck. Jeeps always been this way if you have a lot of jeeps or you were older you will understand the Jeep brand has always been this way.
suck it up , try another one or move on to a cushy new suv those are the only choices.

You say it’s always been this way. And maybe it has. But why is that okay? Just b/c it’s how it is? Until people stand up and start saying things it’ll never change. Just b/c “that’s how it is” doesn’t make it okay.

 

[TTEChris]

What else do you buy? There’s no other vehicle like it , if you’re done with jeep you’re done with this lifestyle there is no other vehicle with straight axles removable tops and you want a manual transmission good luck. Jeeps always been this way if you have a lot of jeeps or you were older you will understand the Jeep brand has always been this way.
suck it up , try another one or move on to a cushy new suv those are the only choices.

Did you happen to read everything I wrote?
I don't think I said I was completely done with Jeep did I? I stated I would just purchase one slightly outside of warranty going forward, so I don't have to "expect" anything from the dealers. I don't want to turn this thread into a debate, it was just me venting about poor service the couple RARE occasions I actually decided to take it in for work that I was incapable(Software updates) or unwilling to do. And yes, I've personally owned 6 Wranglers since 2012, and my wife just joined the club for a total of 7. Fortunately the JK's I owned had zero issues except for a bad front pinion bearing which I ended up just re-gearing and replacing the bearings at the same time.

 

[LABLUE]

Bmw and Mercedes have highly qualified techs. And when you go to an advisor they work with a team of techs that are more qualified for whatever issue you complained about. And if all this fails, they have techs from the factory that come in. They don’t want your car returning for the same issue. I took my JKU in for water leaks 5 times and they didn’t care, after I went myself to the mechanic station I put their hose on my hardtop and clearly showed them where the leak is. I swear I feel they hire high school drop outs.

There are many highly qualified techs that work for Jeep dealers. Not all Mercedes or BMW techs are great. We had to fire a tech for flat out sucking. He went to some great trade school but still couldn't fix a thing. He is now at the local BMW dealer screwing up their cars.

The amount of schooling/training that FCA puts their techs through is more than most auto manufacturers. I am lucky enough the be friends with a person who is charge of training for an auto manufacturer and he shared with me the amount of training FCA does as compared to others and I was shocked how little some do.

 

[ekimgnuj]

What else do you buy? There’s no other vehicle like it , if you’re done with jeep you’re done with this lifestyle there is no other vehicle with straight axles removable tops and you want a manual transmission good luck. Jeeps always been this way if you have a lot of jeeps or you were older you will understand the Jeep brand has always been this way.
suck it up , try another one or move on to a cushy new suv those are the only choices.

Well, for the price of the new JLs, we at least have the right to expect vehicles that are safe to drive on roadways - with in my case *steering wobble" that is decidedly not the case. I'm not Jeep bashing, I bought a new Wrangler after my old one burned to the ground due to what eventually became a recall. Bought another new Wrangler after I got a brand new one with massive electronic issues that the dealer could not figure out. Now, I paid an ungodly amount for a Wrangler that is totally unsafe to drive. That shouldn't come with owning a Jeep. My dealership is great, trying to solve the problem but of course they can't - at least two others from my dealer are in the same position as mine, 6 repair attempts, all failed. Still, I will get rid of this one and get another Wrangler - but I don't judge someone who just plain gives up on the frustration!

 

[HoundDude]

Why do you think the 2020 Gladiator will use the same steering setup as the 2018 models? Seems they would build off the 2019 steering set up which has remedied most if not all steering issues.

I would think the 2020 Gladiator would be the proud recipient of all updates/upgrades that fixed issues from the previous 2 years. I mean it's just a JL with a bed ;-)

@TTEChris, @TankGirl, sorry to hear about all your issues with the dealers. I hope you keep your jeeps and continue to post on here. It's because of you guys that I have Roam Offroad parts on my jeep...

I have a 2019 Wrangler, the steering is much worse than the 2018 I test drove...

 

[allenn]

Man that sucks !!!!

 

[biggprikk]

I'm not sure where this belongs, but I just wanted to vent my frustration.

I have a 2018 JLU Rubicon 6spd
My Wife @TankGirl has a 2018 JLU Sport 6spd

First off, my wife and I both LOVE our JL's. I fell in love with my first Wrangler in 2012, and have purchased a new one to toy around with almost every year since.
If it were not for the really shitty experiences dealing with our local service departments I would not be writing this.
Lisa @JeepCares has done an awesome job at trying to force the dealers hand, but I'm at a breaking point and running out of local dealers to work with.

I am not usually someone that will take my vehicle in for any sort of warranty work. If there is something I can fix myself or upgrade to better parts for a reasonable price, I will take care of it rather than dropping it off to the service department. With my JK's I never had anything come up that I was unable to take care of myself. I've been wrenching on vehicles for the last 20 years of my life, and really don't like anyone else touching my vehicles unless it's absolutely necessary. Unfortunately most of my issues with the JL are software related or body work.

Now for the JL.

Dealer 1:
The very first time I spoke to a service department was about the "yellowing" grille on my While JL, and to see if I could get the steering software update that applies to early JL builds. At the time I only had 5k miles, and my Jeep was always driven from my home garage to covered parking at our shop. The service manager told me this was normal for any white vehicle that had painted plastic parts . I happened to have a White 2015 JK sitting next to me in the shop with 60k miles on it that still had a perfectly matched white grille. When I mentioned that he quickly stumbled to the steering update. While he said he could take care of the steering update, I lost all faith when I was told that it is normal to have a yellowing parts on my 8 month old Jeep with <5k miles on it.

Dealer 2:
My wife's JL has had a few issues since the day she drove it home. Her main issue has to do with her radio constantly rebooting itself and the camera getting stuck on(Her smaller screen doesn't have the button to turn it off). I made an appointment with a dealer nearly an hour away from us because of a recommendation from a customer. On the phone I asked them if they could perform the software TSB's that covered the radio and also the steering update while I wait or go have lunch. The service manager told me that wouldn't be a problem and made us an appointment for a Monday morning. That Monday my wife took our youngest son out of school because it wouldn't be possible to make it back in time to pick him up. When she arrived at the dealer the service manager told her she would have to leave it that he doesn't have time to work on it and they could not give her a loaner vehicle. They advised my wife to take it to a dealer closer to home so they would be able to give her a ride back

Dealer 3:
I had almost much given up on trying to get the dealership to perform any of the software TSB's when my wife's clutch pedal began to "creak/squeak" inside the Jeep. I figured we would try it one more time, and this time go to a dealership close to the house if she needed a ride home. I followed my wife to the dealer so that she could then take me to work and drive my Jeep. We dropped off the Jeep when they opened and were assured they would get back to us by the end of the day with a resolution. A couple days later we called because we needed a second vehicle to make it to our sons basketball games(they happened to play at the same time/different schools). We asked for a loaner to which they said no.... We ended up calling Jeep Cares which authorized them to give us a loaner, but the dealership still denied to give us one. On Saturday we went to pick up the Jeep and watched the head of the service department run to the back when we were entering the building. They now had the Jeep for three full days, and when we picked it up they hadn't even begun to look at it. What is an appointment for?? The dealership actually brought out someone else's red JL Rubicon and handed my wife the keys and said have a nice day. The good person that my wife is, she handed them back and informed them she had a red Sport. After about 10 minutes they finally found someone that could drive a manual to bring it to the front.

Dealer 4:
Jeep cares made us an appointment with another dealership to cover the creaking clutch, and software updates. They also made sure the dealership would have a loaner ready for us when we dropped it off.
Since we had a loaner I was in no rush to get the Jeep back because I thought we finally found someone that will take care of us...
Well, the first thing when we drop off the Jeep is that they mention that if we tapped into any wiring in the Jeep that it would void any software updates. I think they noticed the lights on my wife's steps coming on when opening the door, so they wanted to immediately say that was the cause. While I did tap into the dome light circuit for a trigger wire, I ran a relay to isolate the lights. I was hoping they were smart enough to realize that wouldn't cause the radio to reboot
So after having the Jeep for 5 days, I had my wife call to get a status update. Well after no answer we get an email stating that because of her larger than factory tires she will need gears to make the interior clutch pedal squeak/creak go away Can you explain how in neutral with no load on the motor/tranmission/gears the clutch creaks inside the Jeep? I initially thought it was the slave cylinder/fork or throwout bearing as I had two manual JK's with similar noises, but they were only heard with the windows down. Crawling under her JL there are no unusual sounds coming from the transmission area itself.
The second thing they said is because of her suspension upgrades they won't do the software TSB for the Electronic Power Steering pump that we requested.
They did however update her Radio so it should no longer reboot

I am done dealerships and their service departments. I will probably still own a Wrangler going forward, but it will most likely be one just outside of warranty so that I don't "expect" the dealerships to actually work on their products. I planned on ordering a Gladiator after EJS , and giving my wife the Rubicon but I highly doubt that will happen unless I miraculously find a awesome service department to work with in the next couple months.

Sorry for the long rant, I just wanted to be heard

We will miss you

 

[Swanny297]

I get the frustration I watch 1st hand techs in our shop try anything to blame a customer and get out of warranty work.

Dealers have been told not to update a module unless a cust concern is present. We have to have an actual customer concern on the service order when the vehicle is written up. FCA has cut off the dealers from updating the cars for no reason.

There are times that it is justified to cancel a warranty repair. I have had to decline people "warranty work" because of their after market lifts or programmers.

If your wrangler comes in with a lift, 37" tires, a crazy bumper, and a compressor under the hood I will ask for the customer to pay a charger to work around their modified Jeep. It's all within reason.

This is what I think is wrong with Jeep dealers. You (the dealership) would have no problem putting a lift and 37” tires on a new JL, up pricing it 10k, and selling it to someone that doesn’t know any better.

When someone that most likely has installed more aftermarket parts on a Jeep than your techs, brings a Jeep in for a simple TSB update, due to a concern that should be noted on the service order, or for any other known issues the first thought is it must be the lift. The lift, tires, crazy bumper, compressor under the hood don’t cause your dealership any extra effort to perform a flash update.

 

[LABLUE]

This is what I think is wrong with Jeep dealers. You (the dealership) would have no problem putting a lift and 37” tires on a new JL, up pricing it 10k, and selling it to someone that doesn’t know any better.

When someone that most likely has installed more aftermarket parts on a Jeep than your techs, brings a Jeep in for a simple TSB update, due to a concern that should be noted on the service order, or for any other known issues the first thought is it must be the lift. The lift, tires, crazy bumper, compressor under the hood don’t cause your dealership any extra effort to perform a flash update.

1st our dealership doesn't do ANYTHING unless it's a MOPAR part. So how would we charge 10k more?

I never said it was caused by his lift, tires or so on. A flash has nothing to do with anything added! Simply said if I have to remove or work around something I WILL CHARGE THE CUSTOMER. FCA doesn't pay to remove or work around add on parts.

Go ahead and assume what my career path has been working on cars. Can I assume what you do? What kind if customer you are? Who you are as a person?

 

[Swanny297]

1st our dealership doesn't do ANYTHING unless it's a MOPAR part. So how would we charge 10k more?

I never said it was caused by his lift, tires or so on. A flash has nothing to do with anything added! Simply said if I have to remove or work around something I WILL CHARGE THE CUSTOMER. FCA doesn't pay to remove or work around add on parts.

Go ahead and assume what my career path has been working on cars. Can I assume what you do? What kind if customer you are? Who you are as a person?

I didn’t make any assertations on your career path. So you don’t have to assume, I work in the food packaging industry currently, prior to that over 20yrs in automotive (interior, chassis, engine, transmission as a reliability engineer).

The problem is, alot of the dealerships didn’t profit from adding aftermarket components, so they act like someone else’s 2” lift is an whole different animal.

Whether dealer installed or owner installed, if it is a warranty issue that isn’t related to aftermarket parts no one should be charged anything.

You said it yourself above - even techs in your shop blame the customer to get out of warranty work. Focus has shifted away from the customer.

 

[LABLUE]

I didn’t make any assertations on your career path. So you don’t have to assume, I work in the food packaging industry currently, prior to that over 20yrs in automotive (interior, chassis, engine, transmission as a reliability engineer).

The problem is, alot of the dealerships didn’t profit from adding aftermarket components, so they act like someone else’s 2” lift is an whole different animal.

Whether dealer installed or owner installed, if it is a warranty issue that isn’t related to aftermarket parts no one should be charged anything.

You said it yourself above - even techs in your shop blame the customer to get out of warranty work. Focus has shifted away from the customer.

I never said me. Your the one that said you(the dealership) Explain to me.... if an aftermarket part is my way of doing the job, who pays me the extra time to work around the parts? The pay plan(a flawed flat rate) that dealerships use is based by the manufacturer telling the dealership how long a job takes and how much they pay.

Shouldn't some responsiblability be on the customer at some point?

I had the joy of replacing a cylinder head on a wrangler that had a 4" lift, large bull bar type bumper, 37" tires, a tuner and some add ons under the hood. The owner wouldn't bring me a wheel key to remove wheels, this made my job well and above more difficult than an stock wrangler(that the time is based on).

 

[HiJinx69]

I only have two dealers that are local, both not that great, one close the other out a ways. The current dealer tried at every turn to blame my so called mods for one main issue that I currently have. The Dana 44's on the Sahara that have the knocking and clunking at low speeds.

The Service Writer blamed the Rubicon Take Off wheels and tires and a set of spacers for the problem. The spacers were put on the night before I dropped it off, because they make the noise easy to hear. This was only the second time on. They have given me the "Could Not Replicate" speech too many times before. He said the Sahara's are not designed to take the extra stress of larger tires and the offset! Unbelievable! He said if I have them on after the repair, they will void future warranty work related to the axle/transmission. He tries to explain to me that each model of JL's are designed at it's limit in stock form. Any mods are reason enough to deny warranty.

I asked him about the Mopar Lift kit, of course it's warrantied, because it's a Genuine Mopar product. Isn't a 2 inch lift beyond stock for any of the JL's? Then I asked him about Rubicon take off suspensions, that's genuine Mopar isn't it? He said NOPE, that is not OEM for a Sahara, we will not cover any warranty work.

I hear stories of others that have absolutely no issues with the dealers with their vehicles that are modded up the wazzoo, and that's great! I wish that was the case for everyone. The disparity in the service between dealers is very disheartening.

Sponsored