Advice from 4xe owners

Mgg253

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Level 2 is a must have IMO. You're basically at 15+ hours for a 0-100% charge. I guess if you work exactly 8 hours and have a short commute, and never do anything after work you're fine, but we often find the Jeep at significantly less than a 100% charge when going overnight on the level 1 charger.
totally get it! Yes my commute is short, about 24 feet from my bed. My trip to take my kids to school/daycare is about 3.5 miles round trip. If I do go to the office it’s 13 miles each way, and a free charger in the parking garage.

All that said, I get a full charge in about 12 hrs from <1% so if I didn’t have the charger at work, and we went back to the office regularly ( still WFH) I’d strongly consider the L2 because I’d never get a full charge to start the day and would be more like 80% unless I came straight home and immediately plugged in. That’s just not my situation at all.

my broader point is, that extra 20% of electric only saves me a small amount worth of gas so it will take a lot of miles to earn back your investment of a L2 charger. When I previously did the math for me at $3.50 per gallon and $.12 per kWh it was about 7,000 miles of running on gas that specifically would have been electric. Not 7k total miles…. I then also calculated for me it would take almost 1400 days of going to the office because I’d only capture about 5 extra miles of electric use per day. At $500 cost after rebates I’m left with 5.5 years of break even. If gas goes up it’s shorter and if it goes down it’s longer. The real payback would likely be a little less because I use my jeep for more than just going to work, but the math didn’t work for me either way. I either use my jeep for 7 total miles a day, or to go a couple hours to the mountains, very little in between
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Bmeister

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This is true only of level 3 DC super/fast charging and only if the charge controller is rather stupid. Most supercharging charges only to the point where damage would occur at that rate and then slows to a safer rate.

However, it is absolutely 100% not true of the 7.2kW level 2 charging of which the 4xe is capable.
I disagree about the "100% not true" part based on scientific studies over the past decade on lithium cell tech charge/discharge rates vs longevity; MIT and Purdue's mechanical engineers have some good scientific analysis, among others. Granted, 4xe owners should not see a dramatic difference near the end of service life using L1 vs L2 charging, but there is an affect.

All else being equal, the lower charging rate lessens the rate of degradation. Lithium batteries will also degrade over time no matter how carefully used/charged. That said, the 4xe PHEV design shows that Stellantis'/Jeep's engineers did an excellent job to maximize the useful performance/life of the chosen lithium pack; a truly robust PHEV design, IMHO.
 

JollieOllie

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totally get it! Yes my commute is short, about 24 feet from my bed. My trip to take my kids to school/daycare is about 3.5 miles round trip. If I do go to the office it’s 13 miles each way, and a free charger in the parking garage.

All that said, I get a full charge in about 12 hrs from <1% so if I didn’t have the charger at work, and we went back to the office regularly ( still WFH) I’d strongly consider the L2 because I’d never get a full charge to start the day and would be more like 80% unless I came straight home and immediately plugged in. That’s just not my situation at all.

my broader point is, that extra 20% of electric only saves me a small amount worth of gas so it will take a lot of miles to earn back your investment of a L2 charger. When I previously did the math for me at $3.50 per gallon and $.12 per kWh it was about 7,000 miles of running on gas that specifically would have been electric. Not 7k total miles…. I then also calculated for me it would take almost 1400 days of going to the office because I’d only capture about 5 extra miles of electric use per day. At $500 cost after rebates I’m left with 5.5 years of break even. If gas goes up it’s shorter and if it goes down it’s longer. The real payback would likely be a little less because I use my jeep for more than just going to work, but the math didn’t work for me either way. I either use my jeep for 7 total miles a day, or to go a couple hours to the mountains, very little in between
While I understand your point of view, and it works for you, I'm not in it for the break even or payback. I'm in it for the fun and the challenge of driving in electric only mode, if and when I want.

No level 2 charger for you, great.
Level 2 charger for me, great. (Currently at 1,733km -almost 1,100 miles- on one tank of gas.)
 

OINC

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I disagree about the "100% not true" part based on scientific studies over the past decade on lithium cell tech charge/discharge rates vs longevity; MIT and Purdue's mechanical engineers have some good scientific analysis, among others. Granted, 4xe owners should not see a dramatic difference near the end of service life using L1 vs L2 charging, but there is an affect.

All else being equal, the lower charging rate lessens the rate of degradation. Lithium batteries will also degrade over time no matter how carefully used/charged. That said, the 4xe PHEV design shows that Stellantis'/Jeep's engineers did an excellent job to maximize the useful performance/life of the chosen lithium pack; a truly robust PHEV design, IMHO.
Yes, the only way to keep lithium ion batteries from degrading is … not to have them, since they degrade even in storage. The point is that the difference between the 1.8kW L1 and 7.2kW L2 charging is utterly negligible in terms of degradation over time.

I am having a L2 charger installed because I want the freedom of being able to go out twice in one day on all electric. I place a premium on being able to avoid generating tailpipe CO2, so the cost is worth it for me. Your values may differ, and so your choices may differ.

But battery degradation rate differences between L1 and L2 charging is not a real issue that should stop you from using a L2 charger.

Edit: if you have links to papers that demonstrate a non-minuscule difference in degradation rates between L1 and mid-rate L2 charging, I’d be interested to see them! I know research is ongoing into how to do L3 DC “fast charging“ best with the least degradation, but that’s an order of magnitude greater than L2 charging.
 

jeepinization

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Question, I have a 4XE ordered but with the cloth seats (not a fan of the leather as it can hit 117 in the summer here) but I would love to upgrade a few parts from the leather option. Would any know the part number for the following?

Top Pad Trim Kit Rubicon In Blue Stitching
Center Console Armrest In Blue Stitching

These are the part from the Rubicon in Red Stitching just need it in Blue.

6AC121R3AC-2.jpg


41Xt5OPPkjL._AC_.jpg
 

stickling9

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in researching papers on phev battery degrading and design, there is some discussion around design. there is a 20% reserve that is not touched - ever. It is there to protect the battery from every being depleted. Second is a reserve at new on top of that to allow for battery capacity reduction over time. The BMS controls the charge and discharge to maintain performance over the 10 years as the battery degrades. This makes sense to me, but I would love to know EXACTLY how Jeep designed this battery. Also, does anyone know if the battery warranty is just for complete failure, or is there a performance element of loss of capacity?
 

Bmeister

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I'd been digging into battery tech for years and of course had to figure out what Jeep used for the 4xe; it's a Samsung SDI battery. Tried and true battery tech. https://www.samsungsdi.com/automotive-battery/products/prismatic-lithium-ion-battery-cell.html

In ref to my comments above about degradation, L2 charging of this particular battery in the 4xe will have nil/miniscule affect on the battery's longevity; the measurable difference between L1 and L2 charging on AC is not an issue, hence Jeep engineer comments to the effect of go ahead and charge/discharge to your heart's content without worry is accurate.
 

jlang

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You guys are battery nerds- I like it- I feel smarter somehow after reading your posts. 🤓
 

michail

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in researching papers on phev battery degrading and design, there is some discussion around design. there is a 20% reserve that is not touched - ever. It is there to protect the battery from every being depleted. Second is a reserve at new on top of that to allow for battery capacity reduction over time. The BMS controls the charge and discharge to maintain performance over the 10 years as the battery degrades. This makes sense to me, but I would love to know EXACTLY how Jeep designed this battery. Also, does anyone know if the battery warranty is just for complete failure, or is there a performance element of loss of capacity?
For that reserve:
  1. Is that factored into the stated capacity of 17.3 kWh
  2. Does that not include the "invisible" hybrid operation capacity.
I just got a smart charger, and I've observed a full charge being around 13.6 kWh. That leaves around 3.7 kWh after 0%.
 

Bmeister

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...I just got a smart charger, and I've observed a full charge being around 13.6 kWh. That leaves around 3.7 kWh after 0%.
Your battery used less than 13.6kwh of power if 13.6kwh was the energy used to charge it; charging uses more electricity to "fill" a battery than the resulting capacity when fully charged. Charging losses occur from the inverter and the internal battery pack resistance. So if you used, say, an actual 12kwh of battery, you may need 13.6kwh of electricity to charge back that 12kwh. I do not know the exact charging efficiency for the 4xe.
 
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