53.6 MPG in a Wrangler 4XE?!?!

[phobos512]

Other hybrid cars display MPGe though. It's calculating miles traveled using 33.7 kWh which is the electrical equivalent of one gallon of gasoline. Just as you get worse efficiency with gas in certain trips you can get worse efficient with electricity and not travel as far using 33.7 KWh. It's a simple calculation that the car can run.

I still think that the display in this video is showing 53.6 MPGe - how else could you explain that number? It should say 99+ (the infinity value). So what do we call it if MPGe is fuel economy rating for electricity, and MPG is the fuel economy for gas. It's a hybrid average of both as if the Jeep is treating every 33.7 KWh used as being a gallon of gasoline. I suspect that if in this video, he started to use gasoline that the number will drop down fast. That's becasue gasoline is not using all of the energy potential to move the car - ICEngines are inefficient that way. Battery power uses the full energy potential in the electricity to move the car, that's why MPGe is lot higher at 49 MPGe for the 4xe than on gas only at 20 MPG.

The point we're all trying to make to you is that MPGe is a means of comparison against vehicles that use electricity as a power source. It is meaningless in any other context.

To your other comment, I owned a Hyundai Sonata Hybrid for three years 2014 - 2017; it did NOT use "MPGe" to display mileage. It only measured the usage of liquid gasoline fuel. Did it get 30-50 miles per gallon of fuel depending on the usage? Yes, yes it did.

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[GT2529]

The point we're all trying to make to you is that MPGe is a means of comparison against vehicles that use electricity as a power source. It is meaningless in any other context.

To your other comment, I owned a Hyundai Sonata Hybrid for three years 2014 - 2017; it did NOT use "MPGe" to display mileage. It only measured the usage of liquid gasoline fuel. Did it get 30-50 miles per gallon of fuel depending on the usage? Yes, yes it did.

Here is an example from a Gen 2 Volt (2016+)

 

[GT2529]

As much as they appear to be reviled by JL/JT people, the Prius and hybrid Corolla we own regularly get 55-60MPG on mostly highway driving, vs the 31/40 the gas version Corolla gets with each having tiny non-plug-in hybrid batteries. I'd expect the same thing in the 4xe -- ignoring the A-pillar charging port and just leaving it on hybrid mode I'd expect at least 40MPG over the time it takes to drain the tank and refill.

I don't know the exact numbers but hybrids usually get 20-30% better fuel economy than a gas only equivalent. In your example comparing the Hybrid Corolla with non-hybrid, for highway miles, it's a good improvement above 30%, and I wish that to be true for the 4xe, but if it's just 30% more than the 22 hwy rating on a gas 2.0 Wrangler, it would be 28.6 MPG on the highway for the 4xe in hybrid mode.

 

[Newbie 4xe]

I posted this in another thread and thought it might be useful here.

Date: Monday, April 19, 2021

I’m on my original fill up from the dealership at pickup on April 3 — for 610 miles and counting!
Almost all of my ICE driving has been suburban “city” stop and go driving.

UConnect says I’ve driven 173 miles on “hybrid” and I’m at almost exactly 1/2 a tank. To be conservative, I’d estimate that I have 160 miles remaining.

That would be an estimated 333 miles on 17.2 gallons of gas... 19.3 mpg. Not great, but not awful for non-highway. I also always keep the Jeep on max regen which perhaps is not the best for longer trips on hilly roads. I feel like there would be more benefit from the engine shut down when coasting downhill than converting to electricity. I’ll play with that more on future road trips.

Now factor in 437 miles of pure battery driving so far. Here in SE PA electricity costs just over $0.13/kWh. It costs me $1.93 for a full charge that currently takes me 26 miles. With current local gas prices, that’s the equivalent of about 40 mpg when I’m on battery. Of course, that equivalence will fluctuate with gas and electricity prices.

My calculations consider a “full charge” from “<1%” to full to be around 14.8 kWh (according to my level 2 charger which keeps stats). The battery keeps about 15% of its charge when the engine kicks on, so that makes sense. This is so we can continue to run as a true hybrid even when primarily running on the engine.

With my driving habits, I’ll take 173 miles @ 19mpg to get 437 @ 40mpg all day long. Especially in the most enjoyable vehicle EVER!

As a bonus, I get a free charge topoff when at work.

I’ll provide more data as I get some highway miles under my belt.

Caveats:
1. I’m in a Sahara with highway tires. I expect Rubicon gear ratios, off road tires, etc. would yield lower gas mileage.
2. More air conditioning and more heating as the temperature changes will reduce how many miles I’m getting per charge.
3. Driving with top off and doors off will negatively affect gas mileage...BUT WHO CARES???

 

[MallBrawler]

Someone please report highway range when you get the chance, I'm very curious how far the 4xe goes on a full charge+tank on the highway.

The 370 that EPA lists is somewhat alarming because its less than the non-hybrid models, but the 4XE proves to be a very good daily commuter (if charged nightly/at work) and dare I say, mall crawler lol.

A 3.6 w/ mild mods and bigger tires is probably averaging around 14mpg/city, while the 4XE using napkin math, is probably 0.7 kwh/mile.

Roughly speaking it translates to .25/mile for gas vs .15/mile for electric (or 0 if you have renewable). But right now just patiently waiting for real world numbers!

 

[Black Jeep Convertible]

How many miles or years would it take to break even in savings vs the premium you’re paying for the vehicle?

 

[Sboden]

How many miles or years would it take to break even in savings vs the premium you’re paying for the vehicle?

With the $7,500 rebate there is no premium right now. It costs less than the regular models with the same options.

 

[Demonic]

How many miles or years would it take to break even in savings vs the premium you’re paying for the vehicle?

With the $7,500 rebate there is no premium right now. It costs less than the regular models with the same options.

As Sboden said we’re actually not paying a premium if you factor in the tax credit. If you ignore the tax credit then it would be very dependent on whether you charge it regularly and how often you’re driving long distance. If you plug it in everyday and are usually driving less than 30 miles a day for example, it would be offset very quickly. If you aren’t plugging it in everyday and are driving over 50 miles a day then it’ll be more difficult to break even.

On another note, I picked mine up yesterday. I’m not sure people realized there are two different MPG’s given in the cluster. On the fuel economy screen the avg MPG rating appears to be for calculations only when the engine is running. On the trip screen the avg MPG rating is apparently the overall hybrid MPG, which the supplement manual also confirms, and looks to be different from MPGe.

 

[Papa Jawa]

A lot of people have asked the question “What is the gas milage of the Wrangler 4XE?” Here’s why that is an enormously problematic question. Also, here’s why MPGE and MPG can not be confused.

53 MPG in a Wrangler 4XE?!?!

Please share this video with anyone who tells you the 4XE will get 49 miles to the gallon. Yes, it looks like I’m getting 53.6MPG on my trip odometer but that’s not a real number.

Great explanation. I knew all of that conceptually but your breakdown was very educational, and happily following experience.

I hope doubters take the time to watch. I don’t understand all of the anxiety over the PHEV. It’s a monster of Jeep badassness, but the electrical really freaks people out.

I can’t wait the 4xe across the models.

 

[Jocko]

I’m having a hard time understanding how people are driving EV’s in MA. Is anyone who is getting a 4xe installing a charger?

National Grid charges 7 additional per kWh fees on top of the service rate itself. In my town at least, it comes in at over $0.26/kWh! And there are no off-peak rates in MA.

Unless I’m misunderstanding the math, it seems like it would be significantly more expensive to plug in vs. buying gas. I’d still get a 4xe for the various other benefits. I’m just surprised/confused that, with all the talk of savings, it could actually cost quite a bit more here.

It seems (from a financial standpoint at least) like I should never be home charging and always in hybrid at 0%. Am I missing something?

 

[Newbie 4xe]

I’m having a hard time understanding how people are driving EV’s in MA. Is anyone who is getting a 4xe installing a charger?

National Grid charges 7 additional per kWh fees on top of the service rate itself. In my town at least, it comes in at over $0.26/kWh! And there are no off-peak rates in MA.

Unless I’m misunderstanding the math, it seems like it would be significantly more expensive to plug in vs. buying gas. I’d still get a 4xe for the various other benefits. I’m just surprised/confused that, with all the talk of savings, it could actually cost quite a bit more here.

It seems (from a financial standpoint at least) like I should never be home charging and always in hybrid at 0%. Am I missing something?

At those costs I would never charge at home. Here in SE PA we are less than half of that cost.

There are a few local chargers here in PA that are free and my work provides free charging. I hope that is also available in MA.

 

[Thill444]

I’m having a hard time understanding how people are driving EV’s in MA. Is anyone who is getting a 4xe installing a charger?

National Grid charges 7 additional per kWh fees on top of the service rate itself. In my town at least, it comes in at over $0.26/kWh! And there are no off-peak rates in MA.

Unless I’m misunderstanding the math, it seems like it would be significantly more expensive to plug in vs. buying gas. I’d still get a 4xe for the various other benefits. I’m just surprised/confused that, with all the talk of savings, it could actually cost quite a bit more here.

It seems (from a financial standpoint at least) like I should never be home charging and always in hybrid at 0%. Am I missing something?

It's a valid question and I live in CT where the rates should be close to yours (a little cheaper). I don't have my 4xe yet but I did buy a Pacifica Hybrid in Jan and have been watching this and doing come comparisons.

Here is what I can share. Real world. Year over year my monthly bill for April went up $98 vs the previous year. Usage is definitely up. But where it gets interesting is we drive a lot. Many 20-30 mile round trips and we have a Level 2 charger and plug in and fully charge multiple times a day. For the past 30 days my wife drove approximately 1433 miles and used 3/4 of a tank of gas (about 12 gallons used), the rest was all electric. In her 2019 Honda Odyssey we averaged 19mpg lifetime. That would be roughly $204 of gas cost for the Odyssey for a month assuming 1433 miles driven at $2.70 per gallon. If we assume the entire $98 year over year electricity increase was strictly the plugin (impossible to know) and we add in the $32 gas cost for the month, we paid roughly $130 for the Pachy ($74 cheaper to drive). So the PHEV is definitely cheaper and as gas prices rise, the savings will get much deeper. If we assume, for example, $3.20 per gallon by July (very likely) we are looking at another $40 or so a month in savings. The bottomline is the Pachy is just much more efficient than the Odyssey.

The Jeep is a whole different story. Our 3.6L Wrangler Unlimited Sport JL averaged 16.9mpg over the last 6+ months. Because we drive it on a lot of sub 30 mile trips I think we are the perfect candidate for PHEV and should see some big efficiency (MPG) gains. Will be interesting to track.

 

[MrMischief]

Didn't Brandon Haneline show how to figure this out? Roughly. To me MPG is useful for not only how far I can travel on a tank, but how much it costs me to go an average mile. Brandon's method gets you in the ballpark for the cost and is probably a number you can use to compare to most other vehicles. Where it all goes to hell is as soon as you take advantage of the public charging infrastructure your cost of electricity changes. But if you use Brandon's method that's probably close enough for most people and casual conversations around fuel economy.

 

[VNT]

At those costs I would never charge at home. Here in SE PA we are less than half of that cost.

There are a few local chargers here in PA that are free and my work provides free charging. I hope that is also available in MA.

Most places in this country have high energy costs, in my area 16 cents/kw-hr with std rate. So assume this it would be about 2.75 per charge, assuming a 22 mile range, that is about the equivalent I get in my rubicon with 1 gallon of regular, which is about 2.75. So break even at best.

Also NOTHING IS FREE, someone else is paying, people in this country need to wake up and stop looking to free load even though our politicians plan this free lunch scam.

 

[sentience]

Exactly this. Unless you have a solar panel on your property to offset, or are able to charge at free public sites or work, there very marginal financial benefit to you in driving in EV hybrid mode.

For folks who cannot regularly plug in, the regular 2.0 without the EV weight penalty would probably have a lower operating cost.

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