500 Mile Break in Oil change caused issues

Megawatt

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heh, lotta logical fallacies repeated in this thread:

  • post hoc ergo propter hoc/correlation does not imply causation: the oil change at 500 mi. doesn't mean it had anything to do with engine failure
  • genetic fallacy/appeal to authority: engineers are neither omniscient nor infallible and non-automotive engineers ….
WTF? Is that metric English or something? 😄

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Strommen95

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heh, lotta logical fallacies repeated in this thread:

  • post hoc ergo propter hoc/correlation does not imply causation: the oil change at 500 mi. doesn't mean it had anything to do with engine failure
  • genetic fallacy/appeal to authority: engineers are neither omniscient nor infallible and non-automotive engineers aren't wrong because they aren't engineers--the who behind a claim has no bearing on the validity (or lack thereof) of the claim (Why do you think there are so many TSBs--especially ones that update specs?)
  • the manual doesn't explicitly state all facts or all knowledge/text isn't a substitute for logical inference or outside knowledge; the manual does explicitly mention the break-in period--what do you think is breaking and where do you think the debris goes?
Note how some of these apply to science, religion, etc.
The only post in this thread implying the oil change to be the issue was the OP suggesting the oil may have been tampered with.

It's true that the engineers and manual are not perfect. However, the overwhelming majority of vehicles on the road today follow a maintenance schedule that resembles what their manual suggests. Most vehicles do not change their oil in the break in period. There is zero evidence out there that not changing oil during the break in period leads to serious harm. The recommended service intervals are satisfactory.

I agree with changing oil during the break in period. It's just not nearly as important as some make it out to be in this thread and the manual isn't wrong for not recommending it.

For those who are criticizing changing the oil early, I did my first at 1024 miles and there was a lot of metallic residue in the oil.

I also changed my rear diff at 2830 miles on my '18 Sahara w/LSD.

A year later I start seeing people with 15k-20k miles on the same rear diff having issues with the LSD grenading. So there has been a ton of talk about doing the first at 5k.

I'm at 29k and I just changed my rear diff fluid for the 3rd time today. The LSD appears to still be working.

Sometimes changing fluids early can help.
I'm at 27k miles, have not changed my differential fluid yet and my LSD works fine. This post is a perfect example of what Initial-Jeep was referencing.
 

Initial-Jeep

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Ah, I did forget a couple more:
  • Argumentum ad populum/appeal to popularity/"bandwagon": popular acceptance of a claim has no bearing on its validity. Christianity is the most popular religion in the world; therefore, Christians are right.
  • Argument from anecdotes: I had a coworker who didn't know oil needed changing; his oil was never changed during its 80,000 miles--we all learned this during a casual conversation. "It runs fine," he said (and it did--no idea how but ran just fine); therefore, we don't need to change motor oil until sometime after 80K mi. Another example is doctors pushing cholesterol meds" 'cos [insurance company] statistics" (and not medical facts/reasons)
  • False dilemma/either-or: "it runs fine"/"it doesn't run" is binary and machines (incl. electronics) aren't binary when you consider performance, wear and tear, longevity, and reliability--how well or poorly it runs. There are a lot of moving parts that we don't see/hear. It kills me when people exclaim, "It worked yesterday!" and I am compelled to point out that yes, everything works before it breaks.
The take-away here is that these aren't substitutes for reasoned explanations.

heh, Pascal's Maintenance:
  • If I don't change fluids early and it doesn't matter, I neither gain nor lose
  • If I don't change fluids early and it matters, I lose much
  • If I change fluids early and it doesn't matter, I lose little
  • If I change fluids early and it matters, I gained much
 

OBD

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Ah, I did forget a couple more:
  • Argumentum ad populum/appeal to popularity/"bandwagon": popular acceptance of a claim has no bearing on its validity. Christianity is the most popular religion in the world; therefore, Christians are right.
  • Argument from anecdotes: I had a coworker who didn't know oil needed changing; his oil was never changed during its 80,000 miles--we all learned this during a casual conversation. "It runs fine," he said (and it did--no idea how but ran just fine); therefore, we don't need to change motor oil until sometime after 80K mi. Another example is doctors pushing cholesterol meds" 'cos [insurance company] statistics" (and not medical facts/reasons)
  • False dilemma/either-or: "it runs fine"/"it doesn't run" is binary and machines (incl. electronics) aren't binary when you consider performance, wear and tear, longevity, and reliability--how well or poorly it runs. There are a lot of moving parts that we don't see/hear. It kills me when people exclaim, "It worked yesterday!" and I am compelled to point out that yes, everything works before it breaks.
The take-away here is that these aren't substitutes for reasoned explanations.

heh, Pascal's Maintenance:
  • If I don't change fluids early and it doesn't matter, I neither gain nor lose
  • If I don't change fluids early and it matters, I lose much
  • If I change fluids early and it doesn't matter, I lose little
  • If I change fluids early and it matters, I gained much
I see you wear your critical thinking on your sleeve......well done....lol!
 

blnewt

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The only post in this thread implying the oil change to be the issue was the OP suggesting the oil may have been tampered with.

It's true that the engineers and manual are not perfect. However, the overwhelming majority of vehicles on the road today follow a maintenance schedule that resembles what their manual suggests. Most vehicles do not change their oil in the break in period. There is zero evidence out there that not changing oil during the break in period leads to serious harm. The recommended service intervals are satisfactory.

I agree with changing oil during the break in period. It's just not nearly as important as some make it out to be in this thread and the manual isn't wrong for not recommending it.



I'm at 27k miles, have not changed my differential fluid yet and my LSD works fine. This post is a perfect example of what Initial-Jeep was referencing.
I pretty much agree w/ this, although I still don't feel right relying on the oil life gauge, I'm still going w/ my 6k OCIs, and since I have a boatload of Rotella on hand it's not a problem. And as long as I never let the dealer perform any service, the peace of mind going this route works for me.

Nothing worse IME is taking your car for service and having to wonder if everything is proper under there :(
 


Initial-Jeep

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Nothing worse IME is taking your car for service and having to wonder if everything is proper under there :(
Yuuuuuup! If I had to choose, I'd take my chances with the dirty oil. 😅
 

JL Diesel

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They might be doing a tear down and going for a rebuild because it doesn’t seem like Jeep has any 3.6s available to do an engine swap. They removed the option from most new builds. You definitely need to find out all your options moving forward. And if they do a rebuild it is also fully covered by the warranty.
 

1BadManVan

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They might be doing a tear down and going for a rebuild because it doesn’t seem like Jeep has any 3.6s available to do an engine swap. They removed the option from most new builds. You definitely need to find out all your options moving forward. And if they do a rebuild it is also fully covered by the warranty.
I would hope being that it’s a brand new jeep that it will get a new engine. I wouldn’t be too impressed getting a rebuilt engine in a brand new vehicle.
 

JL Diesel

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I would hope being that it’s a brand new jeep that it will get a new engine. I wouldn’t be too impressed getting a rebuilt engine in a brand new vehicle.
Ya I would want a new engine too. Ive just read some engine/transmission configurations arnt available anymore. Hopefully the OPs is and it can get fully replaced.
 

ALK

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The dealer won't do a ground up rebuild, they are looking to see where the failure was.
They will end up putting a new block in it & reuse everything they can.
Changing fluids to often only wastes resources & money but for some people it makes them feel better.
There are more vehicles on the road that just follow the recommended service intervals & are perfectly fine.
 


The Last Cowboy

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Changing oil in the first few hundred miles was important before the 90s, when some engines had a lot of junk left in them from casting sand to metal filings. Can there still be some in today's engines? Perhaps, but not like the malaise years of the 70s and 80s. You don't see very many cars from those days because they we made poorly. If an engine had 100k miles in those days, it was a given that a rebuild was due in the not too distant future, that is if the car made it to 100k miles.

Still, I don't fault anyone for changing early. I did at 2k miles. To me the first oil change is the most important, but I want the engine broken in and the rings set first. Adding fresh oil too early, especially full synthetic, slows down the break in process.

Of course, on the opposite end of the spectrum, there are people who never change the oil. It happens more than you think. There are probably a few who are members of this site that are guilty.
 

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