4XE - Worse mileage than other motors (after battery depleted)?

[MaskedRacerX]

Maybe I didn’t explain myself well. When using max gen you are breaking unnecessarily in a highway and you burn fuel to accelerate again. If you drive 4 hours you might recharge battery for around 5%. I don’t see the benefit of max gen in highway. Totally different for city driving

OK, cool, I gotcha, that clarification helped.

Yeah, I think you may be right, the more steady state highway type driving might not be good with MaxRegen - to be honest, I sort of stopped using it around town, I like to stop a bit more gradually, and now that I know that the generators are actually fired up pretty significantly during braking (w/o MaxRegen), for me, in terms of charging, it's probably a wash.

We have a couple of bridges we deal with pretty regularly, and with MaxR on, it actually slows =way= too quickly. I'll have to keep experimenting around town, our first EV of any sort, so I'm still getting used to some of the nuances.

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[MaskedRacerX]

That tax credit increase, if it gets improved, won't hit purchases made this year. It will only impact purchase made starting next year (assuming it's approved this year).

I read through some sections of the bill, which is as exciting as it sounds ...

Anyway, there's some language about applying the reinstated credit (i.e., for companies that used all theirs like Tesla) retroactively, so purchases made after 05/24/21. Not sure if/how that factors into additional/new rebates - like if you got your $7500 from a 4xe purchase, and the additional $5000 is applicable +and+ you bought yours after that date, can you file for that as well.

And of course, that's all just wild ass speculation as none of this has actually happened yet

 

[Flieger]

The problem is weight and aerodynamics. Jeep cant cheat physics, and Toyota has a very different approach by using smaller engines, less batteries, and keeping weight down. They also are not making 370hp and 470tq. I drove the new hybrid Sienna minivan and it’s a dog. 245hp combined and it sounds like the engine is constantly straining under throttle. Toyota hybrid is also not plugin EV and does not qualify for the full tax credits.

The onLy way Jeep would really be able to maximize MPG would be to restyle the exterior, use low resistance rolling tires, ditch a lot of weight by getting rid of much of the off-road capability (heavy duty suspension, skid plates, go with smaller axles, etc). Then Its’s really not a Jeep Wrangler anymore.

In simple aerodynamic terms, drag goes up by the square of speed.

 

[TroyG2015]

Well that may be incentive to sell my 4XE and do it all over again next year Pretty sure I can get more than $42K for it which is what I paid out the door after taxes, etc and including the $8K fed+state rebate.

$42K out the door. I’m going to dealer to dealer around me all weekend and the lowest cost I’m at is $56K for a basic Rubicon 4xE. Guess they are trying to rape me.

 

[wvyankee2]

$42K out the door. I’m going to dealer to dealer around me all weekend and the lowest cost I’m at is $56K for a basic Rubicon 4xE. Guess they are trying to rape me.

Cheapest sticker within 250 miles of me is $51,800. That's for a Sahara soft top and they are not coming off sticker much from any of them.

 

[cryptyk]

Maybe I didn’t explain myself well. When using max gen you are breaking unnecessarily in a highway and you burn fuel to accelerate again. If you drive 4 hours you might recharge battery for around 5%. I don’t see the benefit of max gen in highway. Totally different for city driving

Why would you be braking unnecessarily? The Jeep only regens when you let off the throttle. Think of it as one-pedal-driving: any time you would have used the brakes, you just let off the accelerator instead and it slows you down with regen.

 

[Ron93YJ]

Why would you be braking unnecessarily? The Jeep only regens when you let off the throttle. Think of it as one-pedal-driving: any time you would have used the brakes, you just let off the accelerator instead and it slows you down with regen.

I think it takes a little practice to learn that with max regen on you no longer need to let off the gas completely to bring your speed down. It took me a little while to break that habit. So if you’re letting off the gas to “coast” on the highway with max regen on you’ll definitely need to burn more energy trying to get back up to speed.

 

[cryptyk]

I think it takes a little practice to learn that with max regen on you no longer need to let off the gas completely to bring your speed down. It took me a little while to break that habit. So if you’re letting off the gas to “coast” on the highway with max regen on you’ll definitely need to burn more energy trying to get back up to speed.

Yah for sure if takes some getting used to. Once you do, I don't think that max regen will use more fuel on the highway. Even the extra weight of the batteries won't matter once you're driving at a near-constant speed. The 4xe should get the same highway mpg as the normal 2.0T unless there's additional friction from the electric motors dragging on the drivetrain, but I hope that's not the case.

 

[michail]

Yah for sure if takes some getting used to. Once you do, I don't think that max regen will use more fuel on the highway. Even the extra weight of the batteries won't matter once you're driving at a near-constant speed. The 4xe should get the same highway mpg as the normal 2.0T unless there's additional friction from the electric motors dragging on the drivetrain, but I hope that's not the case.

It does get a little less MPG but but that difference will be blown away with frequent short trips and recharging. I'm nearing 1,000 miles on a single tank with roughly 1/3 tank still left.

I think for flat out long highway drives it does about as well as the 392. Which people say is terrible on the 4xe and amazing on the 392. But they have similar weight and are both operating as 4 cylinders. For passing the 4xe would kick in some good hybrid battery assist and the 392 would fire up 4 more cylinders.

 

[Skeethree]

I'm about 3500 miles in after 6 months with the 4xe. I've kept pretty good track of miles and distances, all based on an unmodified Rubicon soft top, a little beach use but mostly local moderate speed 30-50 mph. I recharge most nights and frequently drive 40-50 miles in a day. So far, my worst electric only range was 23 miles, with a maximum of 30 miles. After the battery drops to 1%, I reset the mileage to see how the Rubi performs under all gas use, but even then see typically 10-13% of the miles driven will be electric only from regeneration. The mpg figure after the battery is used up has run between 23 and 29 mpg. For argument's sake I'll use 26 mpg, that's about what I've averaged. Gas is currently $3.35 per gallon here on the Jersey coast, so my $3.35 at the gas pump gets me 26 miles. A full battery adding 15 kw costs about $2.10, and also gets 26 miles. For my cost per mile to be equal, I'd have to get about 41 mpg burning gasoline.

So running electric power is a definite winner. But at the same time, 26 mpg out of the gas engine isn't bad either. Probably averaging 3 to 4 mpg better than our 2018 V6 Rubicon. It's also kind of nice that I've only been to a gas station 4 times so far, mostly from three 300 mile trips. And my electricity comes from rooftop panels, but they cost money too. Yeah, the Jeep's a brick on wheels, but if you don't beat it or do too much to modify it you'll be very happy with the fuel costs.

 

[USNavyLDO]

$42K out the door. I’m going to dealer to dealer around me all weekend and the lowest cost I’m at is $56K for a basic Rubicon 4xE. Guess they are trying to rape me.

I think he actually said $42k out the door including the $8000 state/fed rebate which sounds more like $50k out the door,

 

[michail]

Putting this whole thread in perspective, outside of highway trips I can probably get 3000+ miles out of 4 to 6 gallons of gas usage. That is considering the forced fuel refresh mode that happens.

I have 7,000 miles now and 5,000 have been electric only and about 2,000 hybrid miles. All gas refills have been because of 3 major highway trips.

If I take a highway trip it's like I'm using something with a bit better efficiency than a 392 with similar performance. Add in a mountain range pass and it gets even better.

 

[KCSgtMaj]

I think all of these numbers are interesting. And I think that the largest EV benefit is city driving within a 20 mile round trip with a Wrangler. For me im just not interested in mpg and more interested in vehicle performance off road with the type of driving/traveling the wife and I do. Many Miles towed behind a motorhome, out boondocking with no electrical hook ups. I’m getting old so I’m more like driving Miss Daisy discovering the countryside. I haven’t had a Wrangler for years, though the past 35 years with this new purchase this makes my eighth Jeep vehicle, and probably my last, maybe. Have fun exploring in whatever Jeep you want and don’t sweat the small stuff.

 

[DewHawk]

I didn't buy my 1st or my 2nd 4xe for fuel economy. The electric range is a nice plus, but I wanted it for the power output which it absolutely rocks at without the need for the 392 or the insane price tag. Put it this way, I had the choice to do any other engine in my 2nd Rubicon after owning one of the first 4xe's. I chose the 4xe again (in the same color/year too) when I could've just stuck with my '24 order.

 

[ND_4XE]

When researching the Jeep Wrangler 4xe before ordering, I very quickly noticed how every review (including Car & Driver’s July 2021 4xe Review) pointed out how the hybrid 4xe powertrain yielded a lower estimated “combined” fuel mileage than its gasoline counterparts. My curiosity got the best of me, so as I started researching the details of the 4xe powertrain and the details of how the EPA Fuel Economy estimate is determined, I learned some interesting things. I found Car & Driver's August 2020 article about Tesla EPA Range very informational and helpful.

How can a vehicle with an advanced hybrid powertrain achieve a lower "combined" EPA Fuel Economy score compared to its sibling that has the same shape, the same turbocharged 4-cyl engine, and albeit the hybrid portion, the same transmission, transfer case, & axles?

What I found is that most of the EPA Fuel Economy numbers are generated by the OEM’s, with only 15% of vehicles being actually tested/verified by the EPA. Vehicles are tested on a stationary dyno per a standardized set of city and highway test circuits, and the resistance force applied to the vehicle’s wheels from the dyno (road load) is determined from coastdown testing by the OEM to determine the vehicle’s rolling resistance, drag, and driveline losses.

Here are some of my observations:

• As others have noted, the Hybrid 4xe weighs more due to the EV battery and other additional powertrain components. This would add to the rolling resistance compared to the standard Wrangler. Will also require more force to accelerate the vehicle (but this extra energy should be recaptured when regenerative braking), not sure how this extra mass is accounted for when calibrating the resistance force of the dyno.
• I'd be curious how the vehicle dyno handles regenerative braking. This should greatly improve the city circuit of the test, unless the dyno doesn’t do a very good job of simulating the vehicle's inertia. Only the combined fuel economy score in Hybrid mode is published, would be curious what the individual City & Highway numbers are.
• The hybrid shouldn’t have much benefit during the highway test when running on gasoline, unless it allows the transmission to shift to a higher cruising gear than normal. If anything the added weight of the vehicle would make this test worse than a standard Wrangler due to higher “road load”.

We will use our Wrangler 4xe mostly for short trips within the electric range, so we are very happy with how the vehicle performs.

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