Fsttanks

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Not trying to be negative, but my take away is you spent thousands more on a 4ex Jeep that is heavier with twice the complexities and less overall cargo room of a standard 2.0 automatic, and get worst gas mileage then my 3.6 JLUR on 35” tires on anything over a 25-30 mile frwy trip.

What is the point of having a 4ex then. I guess if you stay close to home with short commutes and don’t take long trips it maybe has a place.

Comparing a Tesla to a Wrangler is about the same as comparing a SpaceX Dragon capsule to an Apollo capsule in technology. The Wrangler is that far behind......LoL
 

Sboden

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Not trying to be negative, but my take away is you spent thousands more on a 4ex Jeep that is heavier with twice the complexities and less overall cargo room of a standard 2.0 automatic, and get worst gas mileage then my 3.6 JLUR on 35” tires on anything over a 25-30 mile frwy trip.

What is the point of having a 4ex then. I guess if you stay close to home with short commutes and don’t take long trips it maybe has a place.

Comparing a Tesla to a Wrangler is about the same as comparing a SpaceX Dragon capsule to an Apollo capsule in technology. The Wrangler is that far behind......LoL
I had a 3.6 JLU on 37's and the power difference is very noticeable. I have free charging at work and only pay 10 cents a kWh at home, so my first (24 lately) miles of energy costs roughly $1.70 which is cheaper than gas. I did my first fill up with a quarter of a tank of gas left and 730 miles on my odometer. To get to the first fill up, I drove over 100 miles on motor alone with about 80 of that pulling a 900 pounds jet ski without the trailer weight included. It has out performed my 3.6 in every category. If I was towing regularly or did more daily miles, I would have gotten the diesel. The mpg using jeeps calculation was 31 mpg and after I did all the towing with the jet ski it was still 24 mpg.
 

Black Jeep Convertible

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I feel lucky to have lived with crap aluminum steering first, because my new steering box feels like a virgin. Only need 1-2 fingers to drive on the highway
 
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dan1000

dan1000

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Not trying to be negative, but my take away is you spent thousands more on a 4ex Jeep that is heavier with twice the complexities and less overall cargo room of a standard 2.0 automatic, and get worst gas mileage then my 3.6 JLUR on 35” tires on anything over a 25-30 mile frwy trip.

What is the point of having a 4ex then. I guess if you stay close to home with short commutes and don’t take long trips it maybe has a place.

Comparing a Tesla to a Wrangler is about the same as comparing a SpaceX Dragon capsule to an Apollo capsule in technology. The Wrangler is that far behind......LoL
I do see your point, and these are very fair questions. Hopefully my responses will illuminate the processes at work that led to the purchase decision.

1) I was looking for a fun vehicle to tow behind my motorhome, and provide access to some of the many off-road exploration opportunities available when RVing.

2) The extra cost of the PHEV seems to be offset more or less completely by the $7500 Federal tax credit, so from a strictly personal view of cost, that wasn't much of a factor in my decision.

3) As a daily driver, most of my trips are indeed well less than 20 miles, so gas mileage is largely academic from a day-to-day perspective. On longer trips (especially something like an inter-city marathon such as Seattle to SoCal), gas mileage may be more of a factor. I don't intend to do trips like that often enough for it to matter.

4) The extra weight may actually help the vehicle in some situations, however I'm speaking from inexperience here, so I accept that I may be dead wrong. But the 50/50 weight distribution plus a lowering of the C of G, coupled with higher low-RPM torque all seem (to this newbie) to be net positives.

I think the arguments in favor of not buying a PHEV are very valid for many people. Still, I'm glad Jeep made this option available, and I'm happy to be part of it.
 

Geesmill

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The 4xe Saharas seem to all be coming with the High Altitude wheels. Mine did. In fact, ours are twins!
Any idea if there will be an option of smaller wheels? The 20" wheels are the only thing stopping ordering a Sahara. I was about to pull the trigger on a Rubicon 4xe, but we don't do rock crawling, mainly forest service roads and gravel. I know the Rubicon has a higher resale, we have a 2018 JLU Rubicon we bought used, but it just seems overkill for our use case. Smaller wheels that we could put larger tires on to air down would be nice.
 

Fsttanks

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I had a 3.6 JLU on 37's and the power difference is very noticeable. I have free charging at work and only pay 10 cents a kWh at home, so my first (24 lately) miles of energy costs roughly $1.70 which is cheaper than gas. I did my first fill up with a quarter of a tank of gas left and 730 miles on my odometer. To get to the first fill up, I drove over 100 miles on motor alone with about 80 of that pulling a 900 pounds jet ski without the trailer weight included. It has out performed my 3.6 in every category. If I was towing regularly or did more daily miles, I would have gotten the diesel. The mpg using jeeps calculation was 31 mpg and after I did all the towing with the jet ski it was still 24 mpg.
Are you running 37” tires on your 4ex too? If not your comparison is off by quite a bit. As the 3.6 JLU with stock 3.73 or lower gearing and 37” tires would be a power and fuel pig when compared to the 4ex with even the tallest tire (33”) offered stock on the 4ex Rubicon. I don’t think anyone would debate that.
 

Ratiogear

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Not trying to be negative, but my take away is you spent thousands more on a 4ex Jeep that is heavier with twice the complexities and less overall cargo room of a standard 2.0 automatic, and get worst gas mileage then my 3.6 JLUR on 35” tires on anything over a 25-30 mile frwy trip.

What is the point of having a 4ex then. I guess if you stay close to home with short commutes and don’t take long trips it maybe has a place.

Comparing a Tesla to a Wrangler is about the same as comparing a SpaceX Dragon capsule to an Apollo capsule in technology. The Wrangler is that far behind......LoL
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I made this to deal with the trolls in this forum. Yours seems to be a much more genuine response. I would tell you to give it a drive. There is a notable difference in how it drives, the responsiveness, the kick, and the stability at highway speeds. Even compared to the ecodiesel, which I test drove right before the 4xe, it's a significant power boost.

I think there are a lot of people who are interested in owning a jeep without being dedicated rock-crawlers or overlanders. Plenty of people (if not most) in the jeep culture who can't afford a secondary "just for fun" vehicle and will therefore be driving their jeeps daily. So if you have a city or mostly city commute (like 83% of the US who lives in urban or suburban areas), this thing will either go full electric for all or a majority of your commute. And the more you stop-n-go, the more the hybrid recharge feature reduces your overall fuel costs. If you're not planning on putting 50% or more of the miles on your jeep as being road-trips, I don't see how it could cost you more, unless your energy plan is atrocious, you can't regularly charge, or your daily commute is so long that 20 miles electric doesn't make a dent.

It doesn't make sense for everyone, but it makes sense for a lot of people. A 1100 mile drive in a brand new car is not the "normal" scenario for most people.
 

DHW

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I feel lucky to have lived with crap aluminum steering first, because my new steering box feels like a virgin. Only need 1-2 fingers to drive on the highway
Ha, same here. "Without the bitter, the sweet isn't as sweet".
 

bondijoe

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Any idea if there will be an option of smaller wheels? The 20" wheels are the only thing stopping ordering a Sahara.
Don't let it stop you 😎 I had the same debate, decided I didn't need the Rubicon (live in NJ), got a 4xe Sahara and put on Rubicon takeoff tires (33" K02s) on Willys/Moab wheels. Can get more selling the 4xe/HA wheels and tires than those from a regular Sahara. Looks and rides great. Most days I drive less than 25 miles and 4xe has been a good fit for that. (Have posted these pics in other threads so apologies for including here again). Good luck!

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Ratiogear

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former response
Also, I'd just like to point out that for me, this car is perfect. I love the driving and power, I want to take a couple trips a month but have plenty of places to go that aren't clear on the other side of the country. I have a 30-50 mile round trip commute depending on where I am that day, but around half the sites I commute to have charging at work. I don't have my own solar setup, but I get free nights and weekend energy. This car will literally cost me nothing to drive about half of the days, and cost me pennies other days.

But I'll still get to be in a wrangler, instead of a prius.
 

learnedhands

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I’m waiting on mine to show up at Bud Clary. I went through Phillip Olson as well and he made me a killer deal on a custom order. I’m in AZ and plan on flying up there when the vehicle lands. Just out of curiosity, what was the cost going to be to have it shipped? I’ve been a little nervous to take on that drive with the sporadic check engine light issues that some are experiencing.
Have you been able to get in touch with Phillip recently? I'm in NV and also ordered from him but I haven't had any luck contacting Phillip in over a week. I've tried emails, text, and calling but it's been radio silence. According to Jeep chat, my JLU arrived at Bud Clary yesterday and I need to make arrangements to fly up there or arrange for transport.
 

Fsttanks

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I made this to deal with the trolls in this forum. Yours seems to be a much more genuine response. I would tell you to give it a drive. There is a notable difference in how it drives, the responsiveness, the kick, and the stability at highway speeds. Even compared to the ecodiesel, which I test drove right before the 4xe, it's a significant power boost.

I think there are a lot of people who are interested in owning a jeep without being dedicated rock-crawlers or overlanders. Plenty of people (if not most) in the jeep culture who can't afford a secondary "just for fun" vehicle and will therefore be driving their jeeps daily. So if you have a city or mostly city commute (like 83% of the US who lives in urban or suburban areas), this thing will either go full electric for all or a majority of your commute. And the more you stop-n-go, the more the hybrid recharge feature reduces your overall fuel costs. If you're not planning on putting 50% or more of the miles on your jeep as being road-trips, I don't see how it could cost you more, unless your energy plan is atrocious, you can't regularly charge, or your daily commute is so long that 20 miles electric doesn't make a dent.

It doesn't make sense for everyone, but it makes sense for a lot of people. A 1100 mile drive in a brand new car is not the "normal" scenario for most people.
Not a troll just trying to understand folks logic with the 4ex. To me where I live Palm Springs area of Ca I see a good number popping up, it makes no sense because almost everyone I talk to that has one is heading to or from the coastal areas (beach cities, mountains, LA, OC and San Diego) all of which are well out of the electric range. It’s puzzling because they are running on the 2.0 engine the vast majority of the time and burning more fuel then a standard 2.0 simply because their Jeep is 500lbs heavier, yet are convinced they are helping the environment.

Case I point was last weekend up in our local mountains(Big Bear). Talking to a couple from LA about their 4ex Rubicon. They said the drove from LA and up the mountain using the gas engine, then “switched” to all electric once they got into Big Bear City to help “preserve the natural environment”. I had to sake my head in disbelief because it burns three times more gas driving up the mountain then it would driving around the city or trails. Wouldn’t it have been better to use the electric power to go up and save burning so much gas? They did not think so. It’s that logic that I am trying to understand about the 4ex owners. Granted that is not all 4ex owners, but it is what I have been encountering a lot here in Ca.

Now I totally get the electric thing and I like the idea of it if one stays within 10 miles of home. But for SoCal. that is kinda a pipe dream because almost everything requires at least a 10 mile drive to get to and often in frwy traffic or on stop and go city streets.
 
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Ratiogear

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Not a troll just trying to understand folks logic with the 4ex. To me where I live Palm Springs area of Ca I see a good number popping up, it makes no sense because almost everyone I talk to that has one is heading to or from the coastal areas (beach cities, mountains, LA, OC and San Diego) all of which are well out of the electric range. It’s puzzling because they are running on the 2.0 engine the vast majority of the time and burning more fuel then a standard 2.0 simply because their Jeep is 500lbs heavier, yet are convinced they are helping the environment.

Case I point was last weekend up in our local mountains(Big Bear). Talking to a couple from LA about there 4ex Rubicon. They said the drove from LA and up the mountain using the gas engine, then “switched” to all electric once they got into Big Bear City to help “preserve the natural environment”. I had to sake my head in disbelief because it burns three times more gas driving up the mountain then it would driving around the city or trails. Wouldn’t it have been better to use the electric power to go up and save burning so much gas? They did not think so. It’s that logic that I am trying to understand about the 4ex owners. Granted that is not all 4ex owners, but it is what I have been encountering a lot here in Ca.
I dunno about those people. But I'd put hard cash on the majority of 4xe owners not using the jeep exclusively or even majority on beach or trails. Most people buying this car are mall crawling, or can only afford one vehicle and want to daily drive it.
Now I totally get the electric thing and I like the idea of it if one stays within 10 miles of home. But for SoCal. that is kinda a pipe dream because almost everything requires at least a 10 mile drive to get to and often in frwy traffic or on stop and go city streets.
Stop and go means your e-save brakes recharges the battery MORE, so you get better use out of the hybrid side.

Furthermore, if you're doing 50 miles and doing 20 electric, that's still increasing your overall mpg. There will 100% be markets where electricity is not significantly cheaper or even more expensive than gas in terms of cost per mile, but for most cases, the cost of recharging is less than filling up, and outside of very few scenarios, the EV portion will get better price/mile.

But before any of that, CA buyers are spending 9k below sticker price between the federal PHEV tax credit and the Cali CCFR. At that point you're getting a rubicon 4xe with LED lights, premium audio, and some other bonuses alongside the highest torque/hp engine besides the 392 for the same price as a stock rubicon with no options or upgrades. The sahara 4xe is likewise almost 1000$ cheaper than the stock sahara after the 9k tax credits. If you actually were wanting LED lights, premium audio, leather seats, etc., the premium for a 4xe is around 1500-2500$ before tax credits, which means you're buying the damn thing for 5-8k cheaper than a regular i4.

So at that point, it's almost a no brainer to be an early adopter in terms of cost.

And before any of that, to talk about smiles per mile, this jeep can zoom. If you're into the vroom factor, this thing is great, even if it doesn't roar like the 392.
 

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