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aldo98229

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TFL shows how 4Xe does on the trail.

This is the most realistic demonstration I have seen of 4Xe up to now.

It didn't go very far on pure electricity. But it looked pretty cool wheeling in absolute silence.


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4x4PNW

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TFL shows how 4Xe does on the trail.

This is the most realistic demonstration I have seen of 4Xe up to now.

It didn't go very far on pure electricity. But it looked pretty cool wheeling in absolute silence.


This was a cool video but wondering why the range was so short. I believe I read Jeep did the full Rubicon trail in electric which is 22 miles. Maybe TFL left it in 4 Low the entire time... not sure.

Thanks for sharing.
 
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aldo98229

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This was a cool video but wondering why the range was so short. I believe I read Jeep did the full Rubicon trail in electric which is 22 miles. Maybe TFL left it in 4 Low the entire time... not sure.

Thanks for sharing.
You bet.

The reasons 4Xe got only 3.4 miles on electric power are:
  • That portion of the trail was ALL uphill
  • The Jeep was in 4L, with lockers being engaged on-and-off.
4L and lockers add significant drag, and off-road driving invariably results in a lot of wheel spinning in place, and a lot of “idling” around

Jeep rates 4Xe in EV mode to have a range of 21 miles in normal driving. TFL got 27 miles in mixed city and highway driving, which means Jeep is not over-promising —as other automakers like to do.
 

johnnyj

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My big TL/DR thoughts - scroll on if too much to read - it is what it is.

While I realize the 4xe has a 2.0t in it, I'm going to discuss EV's because the subject here is all-electric viability and distance.

This is unfortunately the dilemma right now with electric off roaders with the following preconditions:
1. You want to adventure with it, being defined as traveling from place to place in the back country.
2. You want to carry gear and people while doing this that brings your vehicle close-to capacity. (Many overload their Jeeps, but let's give benefit of the doubt and just say GVWR has been achieved.)

Every now and again I have a debate over beers with some friends who are eager for offroad EVs about how amazing the cybertruck and rivian will be, and how cool it will be to do what we do now (tour states in the backcountry) with no gas. I think this is very wishful thinking. I recall an interview with Musk where he applied his self driving numbers to EV's in general, saying the notion would be great to have a vehicle that 90% of drivers could use for 90% of their drives, that is city and/or paved driving. I think this is a very doable goal and there's also a reason he didn't go further. Most people do spend 90, probably 99% of their time on-road, and eventually with charging stations and mandates we will see viability of EV's similar to ICE for on-road travel.

Off road applications, however, just don't pan out in full Electric mode. Some of the longer sections of, say UtahBDR and even WABDR involve 70 (wa) or even 100 (UT) miles of unpaved land between fill ups. If you ever watch some of the stuff Coyoteworks (youtube) has done in Oregon, there's great 3-day backcountry trips to see old homesteads, all of which has no refueling available.

The reality is, for anyone to seriously consider an EV for offroad touring, we'd need a massive increase in battery technology, solar charging, or both. Otherwise, you get vehicles like the 4xE: an admittedly really neato Electric for the first lets say 5-10 miles (averaging 4low, weight, hill climbs etc) and then a bunch of not-quite-dead (the ICE can recharge slowly) weight that isn't doing much good. Folks can say yea but the hybrid provides extra torque...so does 4low in a regular 2.0t rubicon and we can use that anytime we want for torque on demand without carrying around literally 1000lbs in extra EV hardware.

I think we will see more and more electric crawlers and dedicated vehicles like sidebysides where it can just be a cage, seats, massive battery etc. Guys will tow them to the trail and maybe charging stations will pop up. We will probably get an EV wrangler in the future with a huge battery that is targeted at the 90% of drivers 90% of the time, and some shorter off road applications. The 4xE is a really neato toy, especially for people who can really utilize its niche because they have a sub-10 mile commute and can realistically roundtrip their daily driving in electric mode. I just think think the Rivian and Cybertruck guys probably need to take a look at the math of how much efficiency is being lost in videos like TFL's before they get *too* excited. Yea, they were in 4low, but man I'd hate to start thinking of 4low as something I need to avoid or I might not make it to the next destination. That would change where I choose to take my wrangler as well as inject stress into a situation that should be about recreation.

And...now it's time to go test out the new propane fire pit since apparently burn bans are gonna start in June and run through Halloween these days.
 
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Bren

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My big TL/DR thoughts - scroll on if too much to read - it is what it is.

While I realize the 4xe has a 2.0t in it, I'm going to discuss EV's because the subject here is all-electric viability and distance.

This is unfortunately the dilemma right now with electric off roaders with the following preconditions:
1. You want to adventure with it, being defined as traveling from place to place in the back country.
2. You want to carry gear and people while doing this that brings your vehicle close-to capacity. (Many overload their Jeeps, but let's give benefit of the doubt and just say GVWR has been achieved.)

Every now and again I have a debate over beers with some friends who are eager for offroad EVs about how amazing the cybertruck and rivian will be, and how cool it will be to do what we do now (tour states in the backcountry) with no gas. I think this is very wishful thinking. I recall an interview with Musk where he applied his self driving numbers to EV's in general, saying the notion would be great to have a vehicle that 90% of drivers could use for 90% of their drives, that is city and/or paved driving. I think this is a very doable goal and there's also a reason he didn't go further. Most people do spend 90, probably 99% of their time on-road, and eventually with charging stations and mandates we will see viability of EV's similar to ICE for on-road travel.

Off road applications, however, just don't pan out in full Electric mode. Some of the longer sections of, say UtahBDR and even WABDR involve 70 (wa) or even 100 (UT) miles of unpaved land between fill ups. If you ever watch some of the stuff Coyoteworks (youtube) has done in Oregon, there's great 3-day backcountry trips to see old homesteads, all of which has no refueling available.

The reality is, for anyone to seriously consider an EV for offroad touring, we'd need a massive increase in battery technology, solar charging, or both. Otherwise, you get what the 4xE is which is a really neato Electric for the first lets say 5-10 miles (averaging 4low, weight, hill climbs etc) and then a bunch of not-quite-dead (the ICE can recharge slowly) weight that isn't doing much good.

I think we will see more and more electric crawlers and dedicated vehicles like sidebysides where it can just be a cage, seats, massive battery etc. Guys will tow them to the trail and maybe charging stations will pop up. We will probably get an EV wrangler in the future with a huge battery that is targeted at the 90% of drivers 90% of the time, and some shorter off road applications. The 4xE is a really neato toy, especially for people who can really utilize its niche because they have a sub-10 mile commute and can realistically roundtrip their daily driving in electric mode. I just think think the Rivian and Cybertruck guys probably need to take a look at the math of how much efficiency is being lost in videos like TFL's before they get *too* excited. Yea, they were in 4low, but man I'd hate to start thinking of 4low as something I need to avoid or I might not make it to the next destination. That would change where I choose to take my wrangler as well as inject stress into a situation that should be about recreation.

And...now it's time to go test out the new propane fire pit since apparently burn bans are gonna start in June and run through Halloween these days.
Not to mention Cybertruck is just too damn big to be all that capable on trails like the one shown in this video. I say that as someone who has owned 2 Teslas already and has a CT reservation.

But on the other hand, it comes with an ATV as an option so, maybe that’s the lander and the CT is the mothership?
 

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bjm00se

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They climbed 4000 feet. So they *almost* made it. Once at the summit, they'd use next-to-no electricity on the descent.

"4xe fans" did the Ophir pass road (nearly 10 miles) in all electric.

My Tesla Model 3 LR uses nearly 50% of it's 75kwh battery charge in driving just 80 miles from Folsom (near Sacramento) to South Lake Tahoe, because of the 6000' of elevation gain.

By contrast, it's *easy* to go the entire way from South Lake Tahoe to Silicon Valley on a single charge, with roughly 20% remaining, because of the energy recovered on the descent.

A pure electric Wrangler is going to need like a 150 kWh capacity battery as a bare minimum, and more likely something like 200 kWh. This will be achievable in a few more years.
 

HungryHound

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Used 80% of my battery going over Georgia Pass from Steamboat to Cripple Creek. Fairly steep and tons of humps to the 11,500 foot pass. The torque (the whole reason I bought the 4xe) did not disappoint.
 

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You bet.

The reasons 4Xe got only 3.4 miles on electric power are:
  • That portion of the trail was ALL uphill
  • The Jeep was in 4L, with lockers being engaged on-and-off.
4L and lockers add significant drag, and off-road driving invariably results in a lot of wheel spinning in place, and a lot of “idling” around

Jeep rates 4Xe in EV mode to have a range of 21 miles in normal driving. TFL got 27 miles in mixed city and highway driving, which means Jeep is not over-promising —as other automakers like to do.
Yes great point
 

4x4PNW

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My big TL/DR thoughts - scroll on if too much to read - it is what it is.

While I realize the 4xe has a 2.0t in it, I'm going to discuss EV's because the subject here is all-electric viability and distance.

This is unfortunately the dilemma right now with electric off roaders with the following preconditions:
1. You want to adventure with it, being defined as traveling from place to place in the back country.
2. You want to carry gear and people while doing this that brings your vehicle close-to capacity. (Many overload their Jeeps, but let's give benefit of the doubt and just say GVWR has been achieved.)

Every now and again I have a debate over beers with some friends who are eager for offroad EVs about how amazing the cybertruck and rivian will be, and how cool it will be to do what we do now (tour states in the backcountry) with no gas. I think this is very wishful thinking. I recall an interview with Musk where he applied his self driving numbers to EV's in general, saying the notion would be great to have a vehicle that 90% of drivers could use for 90% of their drives, that is city and/or paved driving. I think this is a very doable goal and there's also a reason he didn't go further. Most people do spend 90, probably 99% of their time on-road, and eventually with charging stations and mandates we will see viability of EV's similar to ICE for on-road travel.

Off road applications, however, just don't pan out in full Electric mode. Some of the longer sections of, say UtahBDR and even WABDR involve 70 (wa) or even 100 (UT) miles of unpaved land between fill ups. If you ever watch some of the stuff Coyoteworks (youtube) has done in Oregon, there's great 3-day backcountry trips to see old homesteads, all of which has no refueling available.

The reality is, for anyone to seriously consider an EV for offroad touring, we'd need a massive increase in battery technology, solar charging, or both. Otherwise, you get vehicles like the 4xE: an admittedly really neato Electric for the first lets say 5-10 miles (averaging 4low, weight, hill climbs etc) and then a bunch of not-quite-dead (the ICE can recharge slowly) weight that isn't doing much good. Folks can say yea but the hybrid provides extra torque...so does 4low in a regular 2.0t rubicon and we can use that anytime we want for torque on demand without carrying around literally 1000lbs in extra EV hardware.

I think we will see more and more electric crawlers and dedicated vehicles like sidebysides where it can just be a cage, seats, massive battery etc. Guys will tow them to the trail and maybe charging stations will pop up. We will probably get an EV wrangler in the future with a huge battery that is targeted at the 90% of drivers 90% of the time, and some shorter off road applications. The 4xE is a really neato toy, especially for people who can really utilize its niche because they have a sub-10 mile commute and can realistically roundtrip their daily driving in electric mode. I just think think the Rivian and Cybertruck guys probably need to take a look at the math of how much efficiency is being lost in videos like TFL's before they get *too* excited. Yea, they were in 4low, but man I'd hate to start thinking of 4low as something I need to avoid or I might not make it to the next destination. That would change where I choose to take my wrangler as well as inject stress into a situation that should be about recreation.

And...now it's time to go test out the new propane fire pit since apparently burn bans are gonna start in June and run through Halloween these days.
I agree with your points. I have a 4xe and have been overall impressed with the range I get compared to Jeep's published range. Of course, I wish it was much more. I am one of those niche users that this works well for. My usual commute is relatively short, almost all electric around town. I also spend a lot of time outdoors, overlanding, camping, traveling to trails. In these cases I will use gas to get to the trails then use electric. When I'm on the trail I'll use gas when it makes sense and save the electric for the times on the trail I want it. I like the flexibility of having both electric and ICE.
 

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The extra weight of the 4xe kills it for me. But I do think it’s awesome that owners are figuring out the best ways to use them on the trail and enjoying the novel tech.
 

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The extra weight of the 4xe kills it for me. But I do think it’s awesome that owners are figuring out the best ways to use them on the trail and enjoying the novel tech.
agree the weight is significant but if you look at many of the customized wranglers out there, most are heavy. So is the land cruiser, etc. It’s still very capable off-road. I get it though… to each their own.
 

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I believe I read Jeep did the full Rubicon trail in electric which is 22 miles.
First time I've heard that claim. I think a Rubicon 4xe could do the Rubicon on a full tank and charge. Maybe even just a full tank. But I haven't heard a single claim that it could do the full train in electric. It barely gets 20ish miles electric in town.
 
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4x4PNW

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They climbed 4000 feet. So they *almost* made it. Once at the summit, they'd use next-to-no electricity on the descent.

"4xe fans" did the Ophir pass road (nearly 10 miles) in all electric.

My Tesla Model 3 LR uses nearly 50% of it's 75kwh battery charge in driving just 80 miles from Folsom (near Sacramento) to South Lake Tahoe, because of the 6000' of elevation gain.

By contrast, it's *easy* to go the entire way from South Lake Tahoe to Silicon Valley on a single charge, with roughly 20% remaining, because of the energy recovered on the descent.

A pure electric Wrangler is going to need like a 150 kWh capacity battery as a bare minimum, and more likely something like 200 kWh. This will be achievable in a few more years.
very cool video! Thanks for posting that
 

4x4PNW

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First time I've heard that claim. I think a Rubicon 4xe could do the Rubicon on a full tank and charge. Maybe even just a full tank. But I haven't heard a single claim that it could do the full train in electric. It barely gets 20ish miles electric in town.
I thought I heard that but I agree it doesn’t sound plausible. Mine gets more than the published 20 miles around town regularly and there are videos showing others getting 25+
 

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I thought I heard that but I agree it doesn’t sound plausible. Mine gets more than the published 20 miles around town regularly and there are videos showing others getting 25+
I'm sure they touted plenty that it could complete the Rubicon to earn the Rubicon trim. And I'm sure they gave a lot of focus to the silent electric part in any review or marketing materials that discussed it. But yeah, the whole trail in electric... no way. At least not yet, haha.
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