4.88 gears on 33s for manual - overkill?

[Some Random Guy]

Considering this would put 2nd gear at about 13:1 compared to my current 1st around 18:1, it doesn't seem like it'd be a huge deal for driveability. 2nd gear starts are doable even on 3.45 and first is already shorter than I think it needs to be on flat ground.

Bet this would make it a lot nicer in traffic, since I could keep it in gear and crawl really slow in first or pretty easily start in a more comfortable gear to cruise in. I already do use 2nd gear starts sometimes when CA traffic gets gnarly.

Do you think going from 18:1 starts to 13:1 would cause significant clutch wear?

Not to be too flipant, but your clutch will either last forever or explode. The extra slipping to start in 2nd occasionally won’t really change the ultimate outcome.
I had 5.13’s and dropped back to stock Rubicon tires to sell it. For those couple days I tried to time lights for a rolling start in 2nd and did all downhill starts in 2nd. Anytime I started from dead stop at a light I’d usually start in 2nd to avoid getting rear ended. Uphill I’d do 1st.

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[surfyjeeper]

Not sure I understand the question. You have to be stopped, just about, to get it into 1st. You can leave it in second to almost a stop if you want and have torque to pull away, if that makes sense.

I’m mostly thinking about accelerating hard from a stop. With 2nd coming sooner, does the speed at which you can shift through first and second significantly limit your acceleration on a good launch? Or, since I’m sure you can come off the clutch more quickly into first, does that buy you enough time to be ready to get into 2nd when you want it?

Basically, assuming pretty normal driving ability, who wins a drag race to 30 mph: my 3.45s or your 4.88s?

 

[surfyjeeper]

Not to be too flipant, but your clutch will either last forever or explode. The extra slipping to start in 2nd occasionally won’t really change the ultimate outcome.
I had 5.13’s and dropped back to stock Rubicon tires to sell it. For those couple days I tried to time lights for a rolling start in 2nd and did all downhill starts in 2nd. Anytime I started from dead stop at a light I’d usually start in 2nd to avoid getting rear ended. Uphill I’d do 1st.

Fair enough. I can’t imagine it would have nearly the impact of riding the clutch or most other bad manual habits

 

[surfyjeeper]

I had a 4 speed atlas with the 11.7:1 low range in my JK. 238:1 combined crawl ratio. Roughly 20 seconds to do a single tire revolution.

That was "too slow" on some trails.

I'd normally run with the 4.3:1 mode with 4.56s and 35s. That was usually a pretty good combo.

Lol, that must’ve taken a lot of patience on the lighter trails. Then again, I’m sure the few times you actually needed that much gear, you’ve got a hell of a story from it.

 

[surfyjeeper]

Gotta say I’m a little bummed nobody’s tried to talk me into 5.13s yet. It’s a ridiculous but fun thought. Who needs 1st and comfortable highway cruising when you can have 4-really-really-low and scream down the interstate at 4000?

 

[Some Random Guy]

well i can imagine there’s a point where first gear is so short that you’re wanting to shift into second before you


I’m mostly thinking about accelerating hard from a stop. With 2nd coming sooner, does the speed at which you can shift through first and second significantly limit your acceleration on a good launch? Or, since I’m sure you can come off the clutch more quickly into first, does that buy you enough time to be ready to get into 2nd when you want it?

Basically, assuming pretty normal driving ability, who wins a drag race to 30 mph: my 3.45s or your 4.88s?

Have you ever driven a BRZ, FR-S, or Type-86? Those are geared down so much they go into 6th around 30mph. I would skip shift a lot in day to day.
With the tire/gear ratio we’re talking about there’s a similar phenomenon in that gears overlap in usefulness more. Everyone handles this different. I skipped first a majority of the time, but I have a lot of downhill starts and impatient drivers that tailgate leaving lights and freak out when you shift for the first and second time in front of them.
There might be better or different ways to drive the combo.

 

[grimmjeeper]

Lol, that must’ve taken a lot of patience on the lighter trails. Then again, I’m sure the few times you actually needed that much gear, you’ve got a hell of a story from it.

It made Hell's Gate a breeze.

 

[AcesandEights]

I’m mostly thinking about accelerating hard from a stop. With 2nd coming sooner, does the speed at which you can shift through first and second significantly limit your acceleration on a good launch? Or, since I’m sure you can come off the clutch more quickly into first, does that buy you enough time to be ready to get into 2nd when you want it?

Basically, assuming pretty normal driving ability, who wins a drag race to 30 mph: my 3.45s or your 4.88s?

Oh, gotcha! I'm going to have to shift to third or fourth, pretty quick, chirping the tires when I shift to second and third. I'll beat you to 30 because I'll have the torque, but it won't be as smooth due to the revs and shifting. It's more muscle car feeling with such low gearing, if you've ever driven a 69 Mach 1, haha.

 

[surfyjeeper]

Have you ever driven a BRZ, FR-S, or Type-86? Those are geared down so much they go into 6th around 30mph. I would skip shift a lot in day to day.
With the tire/gear ratio we’re talking about there’s a similar phenomenon in that gears overlap in usefulness more. Everyone handles this different. I skipped first a majority of the time, but I have a lot of downhill starts and impatient drivers that tailgate leaving lights and freak out when you shift for the first and second time in front of them.
There might be better or different ways to drive the combo.

That makes a lot of sense. Other than trying out my buddy’s Honda Fit once, I’ve never driven stick in anything but a Jeep or a Jimny so I wasn’t quite sure what to expect with that gear overlap.

 

[surfyjeeper]

Oh, gotcha! I'm going to have to shift to third or fourth, pretty quick, chirping the tires when I shift to second and third. I'll beat you to 30 because I'll have the torque, but it won't be as smooth due to the revs and shifting. It's more muscle car feeling with such low gearing, if you've ever driven a 69 Mach 1, haha.

Gotcha, sounds kind of like what I’d expect given the torque. I can’t say I care if my shifts are a little harder, as long as I’m not hurting anything. So that sounds like a lot more fun on road too!

 

[surfyjeeper]

It made Hell's Gate a breeze.

Holy hell! Must’ve felt like you were laying on your back going up that. I think that would in fact be too slow for me, at least until I’m a better driver, I’d get myself killed having a Jeep that capable.

 

[Some Random Guy]

Oh, gotcha! I'm going to have to shift to third or fourth, pretty quick, chirping the tires when I shift to second and third. I'll beat you to 30 because I'll have the torque, but it won't be as smooth due to the revs and shifting. It's more muscle car feeling with such low gearing, if you've ever driven a 69 Mach 1, haha.

Funny, my Mustang sucks at 0-60 because it’s geared down too much, lol. I have a high output ecoboost, but ironically the normal one is faster 0-60 with its 3.31 vs my 3.55. That extra gear shift kills me, but makes mine crazy good at autocross or on a road course. Probably would crush in the 1/4 mile if I drag raced it too.

 

[2nd 392]

2’nd grimmjeeper— “35’s later” answered your own question. Even if it is a bit of overkill for now.

 

[JerseyMark]

Resurrecting this thread
For those of you with manual trans, 33s and 4.88s - any longer term updates? Are you still happy with the 4.88s?

The reason I am asking is that I just put in an order for a 2023 JLUR manual with the 4.88 option for my wife's Jeep. I was initially thinking we would go to 35s but she may just stay with stock 33s long term(or at least until they wear out). I am a bit nervous that it will be overgeared. She currently has a Sahara that has rubicon takeoffs with 4.10 gears(got it regeared). She only uses 5 speeds, so I figured the 4.88s made sense.

 

[Blazing Saddles]

Resurrecting this thread
For those of you with manual trans, 33s and 4.88s - any longer term updates? Are you still happy with the 4.88s?

The reason I am asking is that I just put in an order for a 2023 JLUR manual with the 4.88 option for my wife's Jeep. I was initially thinking we would go to 35s but she may just stay with stock 33s long term(or at least until they wear out). I am a bit nervous that it will be overgeared. She currently has a Sahara that has rubicon takeoffs with 4.10 gears(got it regeared). She only uses 5 speeds, so I figured the 4.88s made sense.

I love it, but it is really dependent on the type of driving you will be doing. For instance, I don't drive on flat ground and the speed limit is usually 45mph or less. I have put on a few interstate miles, as well, but not enough to give a real opinion. My experience is also with a 2 door, and I don't know if that makes a major difference. I've had mine for 9 months and have put about 4700 miles on it.

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