33s vs 35s? (First lift and Larger Tire purchase)

[KiknTiresLightnFires]

So after much deliberation and re-reading this thread about 6 times, I ended up going with 33s. I got a great deal on 5 brand new Rubi take off wheels and KO2 tires for $1100. Was really wanting to do all Matte black wheels and some Mickey Thomson's, but I couldn't pass up this deal.

I think if/when I decide to go 35s I need to be able to afford a re-gear and a axle swap to Dana 44s from everything I've been reading from you guys. Those two upgrades alone are about $2.8k from the research I've been doing and I don't have that in the budget just yet to tack on to the wheels, tires, and lift.

Now the decision to be made is what kind of lift to put on it. I'm thinking 2-3 inch. Something that will support 35s in the future if I decide to go that route. I'm also debating grabbing a Rubi take off suspension and call it a day, but I'm open to other options. Any suggestions?

Also, a support tech at extreme terrain mentioned it might be worth looking into getting a spacer so the wheel offset is a little more neutral. Can anyone talk to that?

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[wrangster]

I vote 33" tires, gearing is expensive and probably not worth the investment for an everyday driver.

 

[Shots]

..... The primary reason for me selecting the 35's is that the Jeep club I'm working on joining has a firm requirement of 35" tires minimum......

Did they say why they require this? That sounds completely arbitrary and not backed in science at all. I've seen stock jeeps with 32" tires do some very serious trails.

..... Realistically I didn't purchase a Rubicon simply because I couldn't afford it. Maybe for some that is the minimum cost of entry in order to properly off-road but I say boulder-dash.

As with tires, I've seen Sports do amazing things. Don't get me wrong the Rubicon is impressive off road, but the biggest thing about it is that it's ready to go off the showroom floor. The Sport is perfectly capable of properly off-roading, but can use a few mods to meet the expectations of some serious off road junkies.

..... Rubicon owners can thumb their nose at my mere Sport all they want....

That doesn't really happen too much on this forum. I've absolutely seen it on other Jeep sites, and in person with some clubs. Here though, seems to be pretty open minded. Even the mall rated JL.... I mean Sahara, doesn't get looked down on like it would on some sites. ← I joke because that's what I have.
And not to bash your club, but if they're Sport haters, I'd find a new club. No sense in joining a club that is constantly telling you that your Jeep is inferior, and saying you should have bought something "better". I've been there (truck not Jeep) and it gets very old very fast. There's a difference between messing with each other and having a superiority complex.

....Also, a support tech at extreme terrain mentioned it might be worth looking into getting a spacer so the wheel offset is a little more neutral. Can anyone talk to that?

I assume they're talking about the scrub radius. By increasing the tire diameter you've slightly increased the distance between the axle and ground (1/2" by going to a 33 from 32). IF the suspension sat at a 45° angle (which it definitely does not) you would create a 1/2" negative scrub radius. Adding a 1/2" spacer would then bring you back to neutral or zero radius.
That said, I used 45° because it's an easy to understand number. I assume the suspension sits somewhere closer to 10° meaning you'll likely created a .088" (roughly 3/32") negative scrub. So adding a spacer greater than 3/32 will create a positive scrub radius. Typically people prefer this. Two reasons being a positive scrub radius to make steering easier, and more offset provides more tire clearance with the suspension components.
Keep in mind though that the trade off to positive is a larger turning radius and higher sensitivity to braking/grip differences between tires. You also want to consider that too much positive or negative scrub could cause excess wear on the tires. Neutral will have the tire pivoting on the center of the contact patch.

 

[jmcdtucson]

So after much deliberation and re-reading this thread about 6 times, I ended up going with 33s. I got a great deal on 5 brand new Rubi take off wheels and KO2 tires for $1100. Was really wanting to do all Matte black wheels and some Mickey Thomson's, but I couldn't pass up this deal.

I think if/when I decide to go 35s I need to be able to afford a re-gear and a axle swap to Dana 44s from everything I've been reading from you guys. Those two upgrades alone are about $2.8k from the research I've been doing and I don't have that in the budget just yet to tack on to the wheels, tires, and lift.

Now the decision to be made is what kind of lift to put on it. I'm thinking 2-3 inch. Something that will support 35s in the future if I decide to go that route. I'm also debating grabbing a Rubi take off suspension and call it a day, but I'm open to other options. Any suggestions?

Also, a support tech at extreme terrain mentioned it might be worth looking into getting a spacer so the wheel offset is a little more neutral. Can anyone talk to that?

Nice! You'll love the improvement with those wheels and tires. You could always plastidip the wheels black.
I'd vote for a Rubicon suspension swap with 1/2" spacers. A 2-3 inch lift might look a bit much with 33's. Lots of pictures and advice here: https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/looking-for-pics-of-2-mopar-lift-with-33s.11841/
Remember a 2" lift will give you more like 3.5" total on a Sport. You can always get a larger lift later if you re-gear and move to 35's. Or just get Rubicon fenders.
Spacers might give you a more attractive stance if you like the tires to stick out a bit but you shouldn't need them. Stock wheels have -45mm offset. You will need spacers or different wheels with less offset if you go to 35's.

 

[jeepoch]

Did they say why they require this? That sounds completely arbitrary and not backed in science at all. I've seen stock jeeps with 32" tires do some very serious trails.

As with tires, I've seen Sports do amazing things. Don't get me wrong the Rubicon is impressive off road, but the biggest thing about it is that it's ready to go off the showroom floor. The Sport is perfectly capable of properly off-roading, but can use a few mods to meet the expectations of some serious off road junkies.

That doesn't really happen too much on this forum. I've absolutely seen it on other Jeep sites, and in person with some clubs. Here though, seems to be pretty open minded. Even the mall rated JL.... I mean Sahara, doesn't get looked down on like it would on some sites. ← I joke because that's what I have.
And not to bash your club, but if they're Sport haters, I'd find a new club. No sense in joining a club that is constantly telling you that your Jeep is inferior, and saying you should have bought something "better". I've been there (truck not Jeep) and it gets very old very fast.

Winchell,

Thank you so much for defending the character of our fellow forum members. I completely and totally concur. I've never yet received any sense of bad advice from anyone on this site. I really do enjoy and appreciate all the great information from all the great jeep people (jeople) here.

However, I may have improperly given the wrong impression of the club I'm working on joining. This CV mess has really complicated our effort towards getting better acquainted, other than just using their web-site and membership sponsor's emails. I won't name them here but they are very well known and very well respected. This particular group is just trying to organize fellow jeepers with similar equipment in order to tackle specific outings with certain particular difficulties in mind. Sort of like skiing's skilled blue and/or easy black diamond run but rather for an off-road trail rating. That's the only reason for the specific tire size requirement. I'm confident that with enough practice I'd be able to do 90 something percent of the same trails that they'll do on 35's with my 32's. But I'm way too humble in making that point or even trying.

Still, without yet getting involved with this group, they've shown a real interest in my application and initial on-line interviews. Without indicating any reservations to them however, I just can't help but feel I may be getting in a little over my head.

That's why my interest is in this forum and specifically this thread. While I may be a little too novice for this particular group, I don't want to miss out on this amazing opportunity either. My impression so far is that I can trust that they'll mentor and coach my abilities and Jeep modifications according to our mutual (the group's and my) best interests. I've so far invested in the Mopar 2.5" lift but still waiting on my wheels / tires to arrive. I have about 700 miles experience with this lift on my stock 32's and really (really) like this setup. But due to this corona crap all of this mileage has been on-road only.

My primary worry is whether the 3.45 gearing combined with the 35" tires are going to make it even harder due to the open diffs here in Colorado. I used to off-road a lot in northern Michigan with a 2000 Cherokee two decades ago, but this is my first Wrangler. Between then and now was a marriage, a family and a mini-van with nearly 300K miles. So my wife and I are just now getting back into the off-roading thing as empty-nesters. Also obviously, there's a very big difference between MI and CO trails.

So I'm trying my best to soak up all the advice I can while starting my jeep passion that is again reborn with our Sport JL, (the wife has named him Snoopy).

Also I've not yet experienced any specfic demeaning from any Rubi driver, rather I'm just jealous as hell that I couldn't afford one. I opted for a new Sport rather than a used Rubicon. Modding Snoopy is at least my way of competing with their awesome locking axles and automatic sway bar disconnects. So it's my own insecurity with this lack of hardware that's the issue. Nothing at all with any fellow Jeeper. The Rubi's wave back just as frequently as any other.

So thanks for the feedback and highlighting the fact that the jeoples on this forum are indeed way cool.

Jay

 

[KiknTiresLightnFires]

So here is the first upgrade before and afters! Definitely needs some kind of lift.

Like I said before, I would like to get something that can support wheeling in 35s in the future, but not look absurd. I like the idea of seeing where a Rubi take off suspension would get me for now, but feel like something more substantial will be required.

 

[jmcdtucson]

That looks better. Here's mine - same as yours but with Rubi suspension and 3/4" spacers. If I was doing it again I might leave the 3/4" spacer off the rear for better leveling but this picture exaggerates the rake.

 

[blnewt]

Taylor, nice upgrade! I'd just get Rubi take offs and the longer Mopar LCAs and call it a day, especially if you can find them from the heaviest JLUR optioned vehicle to get the most lift. Mine's a two door so I got a bit more lift, but you should still find it to be a great setup on and off the road.

 

[Shots]

Jay, you're welcome, and I won't hold that MI thing against you. Kidding of course. MI is a beautiful state, but I gotta stay loyal to my Buckeyes.

That looks better. Here's mine - same as yours but with Rubi suspension and 3/4" spacers. If I was doing it again I might leave the 3/4" spacer off the rear for better leveling but this picture exaggerates the rake.

I think it looks great, I wouldn't change the rear at all.

 

[ThirtyOne]

I think its interesting that even though there is a larger number of votes favoring 35" tires, the majority of respondents are pro 33". Clearly these comments don't necessarilly match the poll, at least not at this instant in time.

I voted for 35" tires just because that's the direction I'm heading. However, I do have some reservations. Primarily because my JL is a Sport S 2 door 3.6L auto with the m186/m200 open diffs with the 3.45 gears. The primary reason for me selecting the 35's is that the Jeep club I'm working on joining has a firm requirement of 35" tires minimum. Maybe I'm getting in a little over my head, but I'm not departing with my Michelin 245/70R17's (32") and 17x7.5 stock wheels. If for whatever reason I don't like the 35's I'll go back to these and re-architect a new build plan.

Hopefully though, I'll educate myself through experience and sound science (but most likely via experimental trial and error), on what the best outcome may be (at least for me). I'm trusting that the other more experienced jeepers in the club will help guide me to either higher gears / different axles (with perhaps even lockers) not likely but who knows. Only time will tell as my skill and experience will dictate my future jeep investment(s). My biggest worry with the 35's will be the 3.45 gears. So I'm going to see what shakes out after driving this setup for a while.

Realistically I didn't purchase a Rubicon simply because I couldn't afford it. Maybe for some that is the minimum cost of entry in order to properly off-road but I say boulder-dash. This JL Sport will be my on/off-road vehicle of choice and as my daily driver I need to take some care of it. However, I really do want to go see my state (CO) up close and personal. Off-roading is the absolute best way to do so. I'm open for advice and mentorship but it's my Wrangler and I'll enjoy both the ups and downs of the build choices I make and the places I take it.

So I will travel this path with my eyes wide open. Go big, or go home. At least big enough to go play knowing full well that some sort of axle physics may also need to be tweaked during the course of this journey. I'm certainly not expecting to either go cliff-climbing or canyon diving with it. But a few pebbles or mud patches aren't going to scare me off either.

However I'll decide what may be needed along the way. In the end, I'll likely finish up with an almost Rubi. That's fine by me. I'll have earned the result through hard work, skill, education and experience rather than an insanely expensive up-front sissy purchase.

Rubicon owners can thumb their nose at my mere Sport all they want. The real fun at Jeeping is not only driving, but building and playing with the equipment along the way. Meeting new friends, learning from their experiences, and enjoying their company are the true sources of figuring all this out.

Thank you all in this forum, driving either 33, 35 or whatever for contributing to this thread. It all helps.

For the record this CV mess has me waiting on my preferred wheels. Fuel Ammo Anthacite 17x9 -12mm offset, mated to either the Nitto EVO Grappler A/T's or the Goodyear Duratrac Ultraterrain Wranglers. Just completed the Mopar 2.5" lift. The pics below are still with the stock wheels. Finally as a side note, this setup (without the anticipated 35's) is still so much better than the stock ride. If everything goes south with the wheels/tires, I can still live with this (at least on-road) until I puzzle something else out.

Jay

I can't fathom why a club would require 35s. That makes no actual sense.

 

[blnewt]

I can't fathom why a club would require 35s. That makes no actual sense.

Maybe they're trying to overcompensate for something

 

[MITony]

I went with the 285/70/17 with a 1.5" Terraflex leveling kit. Super happy with the stance. Tromped around Drummond Island and it worked fine. Didn't get super crazy with rock climbing at Marble head, but it got me everywhere else with no issues.

 

[scrape]

I can't fathom why a club would require 35s. That makes no actual sense.

Never heard of anything like that either. Clubs here will advise against certain trails but never refuse anybody because of tire size.

Also does that mean I can bring my 4 door ram 2500 with an 8 ft bed and 35s but not a 2 door Jeep on 33s?

 

[Tdkrum5]

So here is the first upgrade before and afters! Definitely needs some kind of lift.

Like I said before, I would like to get something that can support wheeling in 35s in the future, but not look absurd. I like the idea of seeing where a Rubi take off suspension would get me for now, but feel like something more substantial will be required.

Looks good. I agree a lift would would set things off. @jmcdtucson red JL looks sharp. How does it ride and drive?

 

[ThirtyOne]

Never heard of anything like that either. Clubs here will advise against certain trails but never refuse anybody because of tire size.

Also does that mean I can bring my 4 door ram 2500 with an 8 ft bed and 35s but not a 2 door Jeep on 33s?

My group would never advise against certain trails because of tire size. Our attitude if you are willing to try we will get you through one way or another.

And just to put a point on it, check this out: Jeepin' the dream.

That's a stock JLU doing just about every f'in trail worth doing in the country. Most of the time it's not about tire size, it's about the equipment sitting in the driver's seat.

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