3.6L V6 24V VVT eTorque Engine vs. 3.6L V6 24V VVT Engine Upg I With Start Stop

[_olllllllo_]

I was just at the 30th Big Bear Jeep Jamboree and I was in a conversation with an 18-year Chrysler/Ram/Jeep mechanic and a participant was asking about engine choice. He recommended the 3.6 (either version - non-etorque or e-torque) or the 392 (with the caveat you will have to replace the lifters and cams at some point). This was based on his experience working on the variety of available engines. He had only seen on e-torque come in with a generator issue and felt it was pretty well sorted.

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[DadJokes]

The JT platform already has trouble getting high tow ratings due to cooling on the 3.6. This is probably why they had to use the JL 2.0's cooling fans and enlarge the grill openings.

It's likely the same reason why there isn't a 392 Gladiator.

After finding out about the fans from the 2.0 being used on the tow group JT, I ordered a Mopar Satin Black JT grille hoping to keep things even a couple of degrees cooler. Maybe it will and maybe it will not. I will at least like the Recon look.

 

[AnnDee4444]

If you get the 3.6 with the tow package on the JL you get the JT wider grill spacing.

Is this a recent change?

 

[DadJokes]

If you get the 3.6 with the tow package on the JL you get the JT wider grill spacing.

If the 2.0 was so hard to cool as they said, especially while towing, you’d think they’d offer the opened up grille on it too.

I remember cooling being a supposed issue in why the JT didn’t offer the 2.0. Since you can get a lesser tow rating with a JL, you’d think they’d toss the grille on there for more margin in those marginal situations such as long grades and near the max tow rating.

 

[Wbino]

Is this a recent change?

When I p/u my 2021 JLU last March it was the only surprise that I wasn't sure I liked initially.
I also have the forward camera not sure if that's the reason.

 

[Capt. Don]

So what I'm taking away from this thread is that for those of us who mainly use our JL's for low range trail use with the ESS disabled and avoid stop and go freeway driving at all costs, the e-torque is just a paper weight that does nothing. I'm I correct or did I miss something?

Not true. Stellantis has still not done a decent job of explaining this system and now the 2023 models are out. I have it in my model year end 2022 High Tide with the 850RE trans, HD Wide M210 front and Wide M220 rear axles (Rubicon axles without the lockers but with the Xtreme Recon steel steering knuckles and strengthened front d44 axle tubes), 1.5” lift, factory 35s, and performance brakes plus 4.56 gears. So how does the etorque V-6 work with all this gear. 90 lbs-ft of additional torque between idle and 2,000 rpm. And I mean idle. Better have your foot on that brake firmly when the engine restarts with the additional torque. The ESS is seamless. The transmission becomes heroic with etorque and 4.56 gears. Beautiful. But the real reason I like this etorque system so much? Engine response at less than 2,000 rpm. Off the line with 4.56 gears it jumps out like it has a hemi. Of course at 2,000 rpm you know you have a nice V-6, not a V-8. But what a ball to get there. Puts a real smile on my face. Rock climbing last weekend showed me what that increased torque at low rpm means - power right where you need it from off idle. Does this system work as well with 3.70 gears? Ask a new Willys Sport owner. Does it work with the Xtreme Recon package? It sure does. What a hoot to drive.

 

[Capt. Don]

Like I said in my post. For the guy's that absolutely never use the ESS, the e-torque doesn't do anything then?

Just not true at all on my 2022 High Tide with Xtreme Recon package. See my earlier post in this thread.

 

[DadJokes]

I don’t think there’s torque at idle on the brake. It’s off idle and likely only sending power through the BSG when applying throttle. From my research on more than a few articles, one from an engineer for the Ram, it gives a strong nudge, half tire rotation of assist to get going at no more than 2k.

It seems to be worth 1mpg in city driving.

 

[Capt. Don]

As much as I love the Etorque and was fine now with using ESS with it, I did hear from my friend who was an engineer on the original Pentastar's design team a few days ago. To quote him directly, "I wouldn't use it. It eats up bearings real bad." He said Etorque will be going away but is not sure exactly when. It's a bummer because he said they worked really hard on it. They certainly nailed it as far as function.

It'll be interesting to see how the long-term durability works out with the bearings. I've no doubt the rest of the system is robust. Maybe the advanced coatings they put on some of the engine internals will prevent some of that wear. He doesn't believe they will, at least with the bearings. But who knows, maybe he's wrong on that?

Wow! OK, the etorque V-6 got strengthened aluminum blocks with steel liners for durability. The generator/starter decreases load on the transmission. Transmissions should last longer. My axles are Rubicon Dana 44s front and rear, no lockers, the front with strengthened tubes and steel steering knuckles (Xtreme Recon). 4.56 factory gears. I have an 8 year/80,000 mile warranty on the components of the etorque system. Durability of the generator/starter was designed to exceed the base alternator. Dedicated cooling system. What did I miss? Main bearings? Cam bearings? No, I don’t believe that one. Etorque engines have been out since 2018.

 

[Capt. Don]

I don’t think there’s torque at idle on the brake. It’s off idle and likely only sending power through the BSG when applying throttle. From my research on more than a few articles, one from an engineer for the Ram, it gives a strong nudge, half tire rotation of assist to get going at no more than 2k.

It seems to be worth 1mpg in city driving.

Are you driving one of these etorque v-6 engines every day? It takes more than a half tire rotation to get to 2,000 rpm. And, yes, when my engine restarts, I get enough torque immediately that I’d better be paying attention. 4.56 gears and a low first gear in the 850re are giving me some nice multipliers, I know. But that torque is not coming from the little V-6 at just idle to off-idle. Up to 2,000 rpm this heavy rig scoots. Above that it feels like the basic non-etorque V-6. I can exhaust the little lithium battery pack and I feel the difference but it recharges quickly and includes regenerative braking which is quite aggressive after first start in the morning. A cool little mild hybrid system that has really made me smile and works beautifully with the Xtreme Recon package. And, no, I never turn off my ESS, it works smoothly. My transmission works, well, I say heroically, with etorque and 4.56 gears and 35s.

 

[Capt. Don]

I don’t think there’s torque at idle on the brake. It’s off idle and likely only sending power through the BSG when applying throttle. From my research on more than a few articles, one from an engineer for the Ram, it gives a strong nudge, half tire rotation of assist to get going at no more than 2k.

It seems to be worth 1mpg in city driving.

After initial start, all restarts are from the starter/generator. When that happens, you will be surprised at the torque surge through the power train. Better have a good control of your brake pedal. The first couple days, I kept thinking someone bumped me from behind.

 

[Rodeoflyer]

That's interesting.. seems like it would be greatly accentuated in 4lo with the gear upgrade. Throttle control is pretty important at ~100:1 crawl and that little kick sounds like it might be an issue off idle to 1500rpm. Maybe not though.. I'm sure some electronic nanny takes care of it lol.

Even our vehicles will know whats best for us in the near future...

 

[DadJokes]

Are you driving one of these etorque v-6 engines every day? It takes more than a half tire rotation to get to 2,000 rpm. And, yes, when my engine restarts, I get enough torque immediately that I’d better be paying attention. 4.56 gears and a low first gear in the 850re are giving me some nice multipliers, I know. But that torque is not coming from the little V-6 at just idle to off-idle. Up to 2,000 rpm this heavy rig scoots. Above that it feels like the basic non-etorque V-6. I can exhaust the little lithium battery pack and I feel the difference but it recharges quickly and includes regenerative braking which is quite aggressive after first start in the morning. A cool little mild hybrid system that has really made me smile and works beautifully with the Xtreme Recon package. And, no, I never turn off my ESS, it works smoothly. My transmission works, well, I say heroically, with etorque and 4.56 gears and 35s.

I own two. One with a 6, the other a 2.0. We prefer the performance of the 2.0.

ETorque is DONE by 2k they say. Under heavy throttle, flashing the converter, maybe it does. Go argue with the engineer who said it.

There’s been long conversations about this. You aren’t the first to beat this horse.

 

[DadJokes]

That's interesting.. seems like it would be greatly accentuated in 4lo with the gear upgrade. Throttle control is pretty important at ~100:1 crawl and that little kick sounds like it might be an issue off idle to 1500rpm. Maybe not though.. I'm sure some electronic nanny takes care of it lol.

Even our vehicles will know whats best for us in the near future...

It’s likely just his torque converter clutch.

 

[LatteSipper]

When I p/u my 2021 JLU last March it was the only surprise that I wasn't sure I liked initially.
I also have the forward camera not sure if that's the reason.

FWIW my 2021 JLU (Feb 2021 build) with tow group does not have the JT grille mesh. Maybe camera is the reason or the change was after February

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