3.6 or 2.0

[Remorseless]

I see that as a bigger problem than just the engine. If they dont torque the head bolts properly and consistently, what else could they miss? I have said it many times, I love my Jeep but I have never had too high of expectation when it comes to quality, reliability, and longevity. It is what it is.

I think the push upmarket from Jeep for the Wrangler was dumb on many levels, expectations being one of them. Jeeps have always been basically a road legal ATV with a cabin, and even if you slap a bunch of fancy electronics in them, that's what they still are. And that causes issues with the fancy electronics and yada yada. People used to expect Jeeps to be a bit rough around the edges, but they were also priced accordingly.

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[Remorseless]

The idea that one engine is fine and the other is "a pile of shit" is ridiculous. I've had multiples of both now and I know first hand that it's a pick-your-hell type of situation. The 2.0 is just as big a "pile of shit" as the 3.6, it's just horse shit instead of cow shit.

I've not had an issue with either of them

 

[James Westfall]

I've not had an issue with either of them

 

[yokramer]

I've not had an issue with either of them

Neither have I but I would never own a 3.6 so theres that.

 

[c20040215]

I think the push upmarket from Jeep for the Wrangler was dumb on many levels, expectations being one of them. Jeeps have always been basically a road legal ATV with a cabin, and even if you slap a bunch of fancy electronics in them, that's what they still are. And that causes issues with the fancy electronics and yada yada. People used to expect Jeeps to be a bit rough around the edges, but they were also priced accordingly.

I dont think its dumb. If you position it as a road legal ATV with a cabin, how many of those do you expect it to sell in 21st century? They have to find a way to sell more and keep it financially viable. Like it or not, without 4 door wrangler, we might not have a Wrangler today.

That should not be the excuse for bad quality. Its the organization culture.

 

[Remorseless]

I dont think its dumb. If you position it as a road legal ATV with a cabin, how many of those do you expect it to sell in 21st century? They have to find a way to sell more and keep it financially viable. Like it or not, without 4 door wrangler, we might not have a Wrangler today.

That should not be the excuse for bad quality. Its the organization culture.

I just think the upmarket jump from JK to JL was excessive. They pushed a price their product couldn't justify, even a well-built example. JK was nearly there on price vs niceties. JL overshot.

 

[James Westfall]

I dont think its dumb. If you position it as a road legal ATV with a cabin, how many of those do you expect it to sell in 21st century? They have to find a way to sell more and keep it financially viable. Like it or not, without 4 door wrangler, we might not have a Wrangler today.

Yeah but the problem is that they didn't upgrade the basic machine. It's still "an ATV with a cabin". Just adding screens and beeps doesn't change that. It's a lesson that every single mainstream-automaker-aspiring-to-be-premium has insisted on learning the hard way (a lo Cadillac, Hyundai, Volvo...etc)...fancy appointments don't make a luxury vehicle. It has to be built from the ground up as a luxury vehicle. The Wrangler can never be that.

So sure, they need to expand the Wrangler's customer base - but presenting it as a luxury vehicle is NOT the right way to do that. Adding screens and beeps while keeping it billed as a utilitarian's utility vehicle and keeping it priced accordingly, IS the way to do that. The majority of the JL's explosion in popularity after 2020 was powered by buyers who saw themselves as active and outdoorsy, so the Wrangler should be marketed exactly to those people...and most of those people do not have luxury car money.

 

[croppz]

Yeah but the problem is that they didn't upgrade the basic machine. It's still "an ATV with a cabin". Just adding screens and beeps doesn't change that. It's a lesson that every single mainstream-automaker-aspiring-to-be-premium has insisted on learning the hard way (a lo Cadillac, Hyundai, Volvo...etc)...fancy appointments don't make a luxury vehicle. It has to be built from the ground up as a luxury vehicle. The Wrangler can never be that.

So sure, they need to expand the Wrangler's customer base - but presenting it as a luxury vehicle is NOT the right way to do that. Adding screens and beeps while keeping it billed as a utilitarian's utility vehicle and keeping it priced accordingly, IS the way to do that. The majority of the JL's explosion in popularity after 2020 was powered by buyers who saw themselves as active and outdoorsy, so the Wrangler should be marketed exactly to those people...and most of those people do not have luxury car money.

Always said JL wranglers should never be bought for what they cost new. It’s insanity. Why would I spend Lexus money on something I intend to take off-road? I get who they want to market to, soccer moms who have money to blow and sit in car rider lines for school at 1pm during the week lol. Which is a huge misstep. Some may get mad at me. But there’s seriously something wrong with you if you’re dropping 60+ on a wrangler, especially for what 392s originally were running. Then have the gall to complain about the ride, the noise, the quirks and death wobble lmao. People are welcome to spend their money on what they want but my god I don’t get the premium on wranglers.

Sticker on my 21 JLUR was 55k. I have no idea where that 55k is. I paid 25 for it with 51k miles. So I saved myself 30k in depreciation on a hardly used Jeep that is just like new lol.

 

[Remorseless]

It won't make much difference to most but I live in the hottest city in USA (according to the weather channel list of hottest populated cities with most days over 110 degrees). I see 120 and higher every year in the shade on my patio and have seen 127 a few times.

Now we all know blown engines (turbo/super charged) build excessive heat and will coke oil quickly in those conditions. Based on that plus lack of direct injection I chose the 3.6. It's too early to tell if I made good choice but being 74 y/o I will prolly not out live either engine anyway!!

Your post is written with a lot of common sense, along with facts.
The 2.0 maybe O.K. in cooler climates, but it doesn't belong in the Arizona heat, or other areas with extreme high ambient outside temps.

I dunno, being air-to-water cooled it does pretty good. I believe @Speed331 has a decently high mileage 2.0 that runs all day in Vegas without issue delivering mail - stopping a lot in high heat:

2.0T 95,000 mile oil report from Blackstone Labs | Jeep Wrangler Forums (JL / JLU) -- Rubicon, 4xe, 392, Sahara, Sport - JLwranglerforums.com

The 2.0 being unable to run in hot environments is myth. Maybe turbos of old, but not this configuration. His is a good example that disproves this line of thought.

 

[c20040215]

Sticker on my 21 JLUR was 55k. I have no idea where that 55k is. I paid 25 for it with 51k miles. So I saved myself 30k in depreciation on a hardly used Jeep that is just like new lol.

2005 TJ Rubicon was $28,000 MSRP which converts to about $48,000 in today's money. A decently equipped 2 door JLR today is about... $52,000 or $53,000? It really isnt not much more. You get a lot for that $5,000 delta (whether you want it or not, that is a different conversation). Generally speaking, cars are getting more expensive but not as much as people like to believe. You get a lot more car for the same price compared to 20 years ago. Its the inflation out pace the wage increase makes everything seems more expensive.

And financially speaking, you never want to buy a new car since the first 3 years carry the steepest depreciation. But let's not kid ourselves, we dont make purchase decisions solely for financial reason.

Who doesnt like new car smell?

 

[whitechocolate]

Soft…Warm…and Syrupy…anyway

I didn’t care much about the engine at all. Just the SFA and all the rubicon stuff underneath and I fell for the hype of the XR “ lift” that I didn't do my homework on along with the included ludicrous front jounce tubes.

what about blue waffles?

 

[Remorseless]

2005 TJ Rubicon was $28,000 MSRP which converts to about $48,000 in today's money. A decently equipped 2 door JLR today is about... $52,000 or $53,000? It really isnt not much more. You get a lot for that $5,000 delta (whether you want it or not, that is a different conversation). Generally speaking, cars are getting more expensive but not as much as people like to believe. You get a lot more car for the same price compared to 20 years ago. Its the inflation out pace the wage increase makes everything seems more expensive.

And financially speaking, you never want to buy a new car since the first 3 years carry the steepest depreciation. But let's not kid ourselves, we dont make purchase decisions solely for financial reason.

Who doesnt like new car smell?

My JKR turns in about $46k in today's money, sticker. Was a point there where it was about ~$10k less than a roughly equivalent JLR. I think the price coming down on JLs through the package shenanigans after ol' Carlos got kicked out has helped the price proposition.

But yeah, inflation is the big bitch. Scary numbers are scary because your dollar ain't worth as much as you're used to thinking it is.

 

[Remorseless]

what about blue waffles?

 

[yokramer]

2005 TJ Rubicon was $28,000 MSRP which converts to about $48,000 in today's money. A decently equipped 2 door JLR today is about... $52,000 or $53,000? It really isnt not much more. You get a lot for that $5,000 delta (whether you want it or not, that is a different conversation). Generally speaking, cars are getting more expensive but not as much as people like to believe. You get a lot more car for the same price compared to 20 years ago. Its the inflation out pace the wage increase makes everything seems more expensive.

And financially speaking, you never want to buy a new car since the first 3 years carry the steepest depreciation. But let's not kid ourselves, we dont make purchase decisions solely for financial reason.

Who doesnt like new car smell?

I like knowing Im the first one to fart in the seats too

 

[yokramer]

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