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3.6 engine and 87 octane a no-no

BrntWS6

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Livernois has confimred 5-10hp increase using 93 on the 3.6l. I have their tune with E85 and it runs great.
 

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I have been running the cheapest I can find for almost 3 years so it’s been 87 octane and I do hear a slight “ ping” but even when I ran 93+ for a few tanks it seemed to sound the same and I honestly never really saw a MPG benefit but maybe I should revisit for a few tank fulls of the higher grade to see if it’s changed but then Im a cheapskate
 

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Jeep Wrangler JL 3.6 engine and 87 octane a no-no 1606405227372


I say this is America where individual freedom reigns free like a drunken bull in a china shop. That is why here in the ole' U.S of A, we are doing such a great job on that whole Covid thing (which I hear may be some kind of hoax) with the wearing of masks and all that. So go ahead and pour whatever Pep Boys sells into your Jeep's tank. What's in it, who knows? Can't hurt I suppose. What do those stupid engineers at FCA know? Nothing I say. The nice salesman from Lucas or Slick 50 says sure its all great for your engine, and won't hurt a thing*


*insert here the usual legal disclaimer releasing Lucas and Slick50 from any liability whatsoever for engine damage caused by the use of their product.
 
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DanW

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Livernois has confimred 5-10hp increase using 93 on the 3.6l. I have their tune with E85 and it runs great.
I'd have to see the dyno procedures and results to believe that. Until then, highly doubtful. This engine's tune is not designed to get more power out of higher octane and even if it was, 10hp is over the top. Besides all that, 5-10...which is it? A dyno would be precise. That's a 100% gap betwen 5 and 10. The weatherman is more precise than that.

The 2.0 might pull those numbers off, but that's a whole different deal and it can be more easily tuned to get those kinds of nubers, but not much more unless you get a custom tune.
 

BrntWS6

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I'd have to see the dyno procedures and results to believe that. Until then, highly doubtful. This engine's tune is not designed to get more power out of higher octane and even if it was, 10hp is over the top. Besides all that, 5-10...which is it? A dyno would be precise. That's a 100% gap betwen 5 and 10. The weatherman is more precise than that.

The 2.0 might pull those numbers off, but that's a whole different deal and it can be more easily tuned to get those kinds of nubers, but not much more unless you get a custom tune.
The motors are high compression and can pull timing on lower tier fuel. Not uncommon at all to have different dyno numbers between pulls on the same day even with cool down periods.

They may have a dyno sheet on it, I did not ask. The information is in the programming section on the multi-page Livernois thread.
 
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Petey

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Jeep Wrangler JL 3.6 engine and 87 octane a no-no 1606405227372


I say this is America where individual freedom reigns free like a drunken bull in a china shop. That is why here in the ole' U.S of A, we are doing such a great job on that whole Covid thing (which I hear may be some kind of hoax) with the wearing of masks and all that. So go ahead and pour whatever Pep Boys sells into your Jeep's tank. What's in it, who knows? Can't hurt I suppose. What do those stupid engineers at FCA know? Nothing I say. The nice salesman from Lucas or Slick 50 says sure its all great for your engine, and won't hurt a thing*


*insert here the usual legal disclaimer releasing Lucas and Slick50 from any liability whatsoever for engine damage caused by the use of their product.
Diesel works under the same basic principles ..and u wouldn't pour straight ahem, gas (here insert memes) in it even though it contains it. Back in the day diesel was just that and not much more. It is formulated a bit different today but overall the same. In fact when there was no diesel to fuel up we had to mix straight oil with straight gas 50 /50 to get to the next station that might have it. Guess what ...it worked fine couldn't tell the difference. It was the oil that keeps the flame front slow enough in the chamber to make this possible otherwise engine wouldn't run
 

BlackGenesis

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I'd have to see the dyno procedures and results to believe that. Until then, highly doubtful. This engine's tune is not designed to get more power out of higher octane and even if it was, 10hp is over the top. Besides all that, 5-10...which is it? A dyno would be precise. That's a 100% gap betwen 5 and 10. The weatherman is more precise than that.

The 2.0 might pull those numbers off, but that's a whole different deal and it can be more easily tuned to get those kinds of nubers, but not much more unless you get a custom tune.
In the past, high compression NA engines like 3.6 only ran high octane. Now days spark retard and vvt enabled to run low octane. 5-10 hp is taken from database of other high compression NA v6 engine dyno comparison. Jeep 3.6 has garbage OEM tune and does not make much benefit from high octane. It similar to Ford 3.7 (refinement on tune) which sees 5whp differences between octane. While engines that have been better tuned from factory (Honda or Genesis v6s) see 10whp and 12wtq difference on a dyno.

To trully open up full potential of 3.6, you need to get rid of garbage OEM OEM tunning.


This is explanation of how and why high compression engines gain with higher octane (spark timing).


Does engine runs "smoother" at low rpms with additives, yes. One can of seafoam - runs smother and quieter due to change in burn rate. Any performance benefit, no.
 
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DanW

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The motors are high compression and can pull timing on lower tier fuel. Not uncommon at all to have different dyno numbers between pulls on the same day even with cool down periods.

They may have a dyno sheet on it, I did not ask. The information is in the programming section on the multi-page Livernois thread.
Lots of variables can contribute to the difference. I'll ask a friend who was a Pentastar design engineer. He's indicated before that there is nothing to be gained with this engine by high octane, other than reducing/eliminating pinging. That's why I'm highly skeptical of that kind of gain with just a few octane points.

I'll post up what he says. I may be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. But I don't think so on this one.
 
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Petey

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In the past, high compression NA engines like 3.6 only ran high octane. Now days spark retard and vvt enabled to run low octane. 5-10 hp is taken from database of other high compression NA v6 engine dyno comparison. Jeep 3.6 has garbage OEM tune and does not make much benefit from high octane. It similar to Ford 3.7 (refinement on tune) which sees 5whp differences between octane. While engines that have been better tuned from factory (Honda or Genesis v6s) see 10whp and 12wtq difference on a dyno.

To trully open up full potential of 3.6, you need to get rid of garbage OEM OEM tunning.
.

This is explanation of how and why high compression engines gain with higher octane (spark timing).


Does engine runs "smoother" at low rpms with additives, yes. One can of seafoam - runs smother and quieter due to change in burn rate. Any performance benefit, no.
I just miss distributors. Is there any way that spark advance can adjusted and what would be the best gadget to do so. Will I have to buy an expensive tuner ?
 
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Petey

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Lots of variables can contribute to the difference. I'll ask a friend who was a Pentastar design engineer. He's indicated before that there is nothing to be gained with this engine by high octane, other than reducing/eliminating pinging. That's why I'm highly skeptical of that kind of gain with just a few octane points.

I'll post up what he says. I may be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. But I don't think so on this one.
Can u ask ur friend what would be the most efficient way to go about changing spark timing?
 

DanW

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Can u ask ur friend what would be the most efficient way to go about changing spark timing?
I will certainly ask him. I've seen several folks complain about pinging, so I'll see if he knows the solution if that issue crops up.
 

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I just miss distributors. Is there any way that spark advance can adjusted and what would be the best gadget to do so. Will I have to buy an expensive tuner ?
Tuner is the only way to change your OEM calibration. Without tuner, 93 octane is the only answer for pinning.
If you are not renting your wrangler and planning to keep for good amount of years, get a tuner ($499, on sale). Better MPG, better shifting, smoother running engine and more power (even with 87 octane ) will be worth it.
You can always sell tuner once you sell your Jeep and recoupe half of the cost.
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